D850 memory card upgrade dilemma

[ilya]

Hi All,
I have been using my D850 for landscape photography and never really paid attention to my memory card type/speed, I was only concerned with the size of the memory card.
Last year I started to shoot mostly wildlife/birds and I started to notice the buffer limits when shooting action/BIF.
I've read several threads/discussion on this forum and watched some youtube videos about CF Express cards but I am still not clear what would work best for me with the D850 specifically.

I am currently using the Sandisk Extreme Pro SDXC cards. I have several "95MB/s UHS-I V30 Class 10 128GB" and one "170MB/s UHS-I V30 Class 10 256GB".
I ran some simple tests and my results are as following:
- I get about 20-21 frames on both cards before the buffer gets full which is about 3sec of shooting at 7fps.
- The 128GB card takes roughly 15-16sec to clear the buffer completely.
- The 256GB card takes roughly 12-13sec to clear the buffer completely (in the first 2 tries it took 19-20sec for some reason but then it dropped consistently to 12-13sec).

I checked the prices for UHS-II, XQD and CF Express-B memory cards and all of them seem to cost similarly so the decision to upgrade boils down to performance vs cost.

I found some test on youtube with Sony 128GB CF Express-B where the camera went up to ~30 frames@7fps before the buffer got full (seems like a decent increase over my current cards) but I couldn't find any test that shows how long it takes for the buffer to clear. Has anyone tried to test this on D850 with CF Express card?
I am hoping that it drops well below the 10sec mark .

Thanks a lot.

 

[abc123brian]

I have not owned a D850 or performed the test you’re referring with one, but tested something similar with the Z7ii. The Z7ii has XQD/CFE Type B slotand SD slot. Using a Sony XQD 120GB card and a Delkin Black 128GB CFE card resulted in approximately the same number of frames before hitting the buffer and both were significantly more compared to when using a Sony Tough 128 GB SD card with a write speed listed as 150MB/s. The XQD and CFE cards also cleared much quicker. I don’t have any of the time information or numbers anymore, but you should see improvements using CFE over SD. Since the D850 isn’t designed to take advantage of the CFE speeds, any decent card will probably perform as good as a faster one.

 

[ilya]

I have not owned a D850 or performed the test you’re referring with one, but tested something similar with the Z7ii. The Z7ii has XQD/CFE Type B slotand SD slot. Using a Sony XQD 120GB card and a Delkin Black 128GB CFE card resulted in approximately the same number of frames before hitting the buffer and both were significantly more compared to when using a Sony Tough 128 GB SD card with a write speed listed as 150MB/s. The XQD and CFE cards also cleared much quicker. I don’t have any of the time information or numbers anymore, but you should see improvements using CFE over SD. Since the D850 isn’t designed to take advantage of the CFE speeds, any decent card will probably perform as good as a faster one.

Thanks a lot for your input!

 

[dwillar]

Yesterday I received two SanDisk Extreme Pro CF express type B cards from B&H. This morning I received an email from them saying my card reader has been shipped. Soon I will be making sure the card reader is compatible with my Linux system and will begin a very similar journey with my D850. These cards cost me $139.99 apiece on sale and are rated at 1700 MB/s read and 1200 MB/s write speed. Supposed to be rated for raw 4K video. I have no intention of trying to shoot video with the D850 but I do like shooting multiple frames of birds in flight. New at this BIF stuff but slowly beginning to get the hang of it I think. It will be nice to have a fellow traveler to share experiences with on the path. More when I know more.

 

[MartyD]

I will share what I found with my D500. I tested with 14bit RAW Uncompressed files
Sandisk SD 128G 95MB/s rating - 35 images until frame rate slows, 19 seconds to clear buffer - approx 79MB/s write
Sandisk SD 128G 170MB/s rating - 35 images until frame rate slows, 14 seconds to clear buffer - approx 102MB/s write
Sony XQD 128G 440MB/s rating - 70 images until frame rate slows, 11 seconds to clear buffer - approx 267MB/s write
Sandisk CFE 128G 1200MB/s rating - 77 images until frame rate slows, 12 seconds to clear buffer - approx 270MB/s write

The XQD and the CFE cards perform very much the same. It seems like the CFE cards handle the initial burst of traffic faster than the XQD but I think they get throttled a little in the buffer clear process but I have no idea why.

It is important to do a little research on what the write speed is for memory cards. SD cards always had the read speed labeled and you had to search specs to find write speeds. You are also starting to see cards being rated for max write speed and sustained write speed. The higher end CFE cards have very good sustained write speeds.

I posted in another thread about "Hot Card" issues I was having with my Z6ii shooting video with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 128G CFE card. I have noticed that CFE runs hotter than XQD and the link below does a really good job of showing sustained write speeds and temperatures for a number of CFE cards. The Sandisk CFE card I have offers about half the sustained write speed as the Delkin Power cards and it runs at almost twice the temperature. I don't know in practice if I would see any benefit from a faster CFE card but I do know that I would not have the heat issues with some cards that I have with the Sandisk CFE.

Thanks John, I hope you don't mind me sharing this here.

some cards definitely run cooler. i don't know if there is a strict correlation to speed, but these days i do pick cards based on heat and performance.

Delkin Black CF Express Type B 512GB Memory Card Review – Incomparable Sustained Write Speeds and Low Temps - The SSD Review

In late 2020, Canon introduced the EOS R5 mirrorless camera and that set off a frenzy of companies r

www.thessdreview.com

 

[Dave Stargazer]

I checked the prices for UHS-II, XQD and CF Express-B memory cards and all of them seem to cost similarly so the decision to upgrade boils down to performance vs cost.

Hi Ilya - I have a D850, a Z9, and a Z6ii paired with a Sony XQD 128gb, a Sony CFe tough G 128gb, and a Delkin Black 128gb. I've done research (check Ricci Talks on youtube, and https://alikgriffin.com/best-memory-cards-for-nikon-cameras/ among others), and testing. I'll give you the TL;DR version haha

-- If you're concerned about the future, get a CFe card.

-- If you're looking toward a better camera in the next few years, get the best CFe card you can (i.e. Delkin Black, or Prograde Cobalt atm). Faster cards make a big diff in a camera like the Z9 (but no diff in the D850). These cards are _are_ more expensive. The Delkin Black runs the coolest of all the current cards, and is fastest (I hear the 512gb version is even faster, but much more expensive).

-- If you're only concerned about the D850 for a couple/few years, get the cheapest XQD, or "reasonable" CFe (not the cheapest there imo) - e.g. SanDisk, Delkin Power.

-- If you're interested in SD for compatibility reasons, get what you like (but not too slow) The fastest SD cards aren't in the same class as the middlin' CFe cards.

-- Caveat: Later this year I understand we will see CFe cards that are distinctly faster than those that are now available.

HTH, and cheers!

...Dave...

 

[Woodyg3]

I remember reading a while back that the Nikon DSLRs that use XQD cards would not be able to take advantage of the faster speeds of the CFexpress cards. The firmware updates permitted the DSLRs to use the CFexpress cards, but the hardware in the cameras can't transfer at the full speeds possible with these newer cards.

 

[Calson]

I am getting the same speeds with my XQD cards as with the CFexpress cards in my D850 and same speeds in uploading to a NAS. There is always a gating factor with data throughput and evidently with the SDXC cards it can be the memory card but with XQD and CFexpress it is the write speed of the camera's processor. Safer future proofing with buying CFexpress cards although they will require a new card reader as well.

I thought it was crazy when I used 4 different floppy drive form factors with my computers but now with my cameras and sound recorders I need readers for CF, SDXC, micro SD, XQD, and CFexpress memory cards which is a real pain.

 

[ilya]

More when I know more.

Thanks for your reply dwillar! Hopefully you can share some of your experience with the SanDisk Extreme Pro CF express cards.

I will share what I found with my D500. I tested with 14bit RAW Uncompressed files
Sandisk SD 128G 95MB/s rating - 35 images until frame rate slows, 19 seconds to clear buffer - approx 79MB/s write
Sandisk SD 128G 170MB/s rating - 35 images until frame rate slows, 14 seconds to clear buffer - approx 102MB/s write
Sony XQD 128G 440MB/s rating - 70 images until frame rate slows, 11 seconds to clear buffer - approx 267MB/s write
Sandisk CFE 128G 1200MB/s rating - 77 images until frame rate slows, 12 seconds to clear buffer - approx 270MB/s write

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience Marty! I also saw reviews that the SanDisk runs hot, especially in the card reader. Does it gets hot only when shooting video or when shooting stills too? (I don't shoot video)

-- If you're only concerned about the D850 for a couple/few years, get the cheapest XQD, or "reasonable" CFe (not the cheapest there imo) - e.g. SanDisk, Delkin Power.

Thanks a lot Dave! You are right, it makes sense to go with CF Express for future compatibility and because it costs the same as the other 2 formats.

I remember reading a while back that the Nikon DSLRs that use QXD cards would not be able to take advantage of the faster speeds of the CFexpress cards. The firmware updates permitted the DSLRs to use the CFexpress cards, but the hardware in the cameras can't transfer at the full speeds possible with these newer cards.

Thanks for you input Woodyg3! I am ok with not getting the full performance from the CFexpress card on the D850, it cost the same/less than the other options so why not .

 

[Dieterswelten]

Woodyg3 ist right!. Thom Hogan wrote in one of his posts " ...but CFexpress doesn't net you any additional speed in the D5, D500, and D850 bodies. In fact, once the buffer fills, a CFexpress card won't shoot as fast as a (supposedly slower) XQD..."

Here ist the link to his post THE CARD SITUATION: https://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/other-accessories/the-card-situation.html

 

[ilya]

Woodyg3 ist right!. Thom Hogan wrote in one of his posts " ...but CFexpress doesn't net you any additional speed in the D5, D500, and D850 bodies. In fact, once the buffer fills, a CFexpress card won't shoot as fast as a (supposedly slower) XQD..."

Here ist the link to his post THE CARD SITUATION: https://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/other-accessories/the-card-situation.html

Thanks a lot for sharing this article Dieter!

 

[Charles Loy]

XQD is best for theD850. Nikon has a firmware to allow the CFe, but the cameras processing is unchanged and will not make advantage of the faster CFe card. XQD is the card you should consider

 

[agdoherty]

Angelbird SX and SE CFExpress B cards have been great. The 512 SE for $170 bucks is pretty amazing and handles 15 FPS with no real buffer issues on the Z9 even though it’s designed for video. The 160 SX at $170 is better at 20 FPS by a lot but that’s the design difference. Not the same camera as you, but I grabbed a handful after trying them out. I shoot a lot of video so the larger capacity is basically a lifesaver for that price, plus it handles 15 FPS nicely too at lossless compressed.

 

[Steve W]

I have enough XQD cards for my D500 & D850 and don’t need more. I don’t need another card system and reader that offers no tangible benefit.
XQD has been cheaper here up til now. If I need more cards in future then CFe will be it but until then.......

 

[ilya]

I have enough XQD cards for my D500 & D850 and don’t need more. I don’t need another card system and reader that offers no tangible benefit.
XQD has been cheaper here up til now. If I need more cards in future then CFe will be it but until then.......

Hi Steve,
Do you have performance numbers for the D850 with your XQD cards? i.e. if you put it to Ch 7fps, 14bit lossless compress RAW and just fire away until the first frame where camera slows down, how many frames do you get in this sequence before it slows down? and then how long does it takes for the buffer to clear (the green light on the back of the camera to turns off) from the moment the camera slowed down.
Also, which XQD cards are you using?
Thanks!

 

[Steve W]

Hi Steve,
Do you have performance numbers for the D850 with your XQD cards? i.e. if you put it to Ch 7fps, 14bit lossless compress RAW and just fire away until the first frame where camera slows down, how many frames do you get in this sequence before it slows down? and then how long does it takes for the buffer to clear (the green light on the back of the camera to turns off) from the moment the camera slowed down.
Also, which XQD cards are you using?
Thanks!

I use Lexar 2933’s and Sony G series, mostly Sony. In the SD slot I use Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-II 300 MB/s. I always shoot a max resolution. I’ve never worried about performance numbers. I tend to shoot in short bursts rather than until everything slows. If I want long bursts, the D500 is my go to. Others here might have some actual numbers for you.

 

[EricBowles]

Before I sold my D850 I tested the three cards I used. As you can see, the specific CFExpress card makes a difference. ALL Cards are the same for the first 5-6 seconds until the buffer fills, then they drop to the write speed of the card. I had a lot more variation with the earlier and cheaper CFExpress cards like ProGrade Gold. High performance cards like the Delkin Black and ProGrade Cobalt are faster than XQD cards. SD cards - even the best - are going to be in the range of the ProGrade Gold card below.

I also thought about what combinations I wanted to take on trips. Did I really want two separate readers, or to have to pay much more for a single reader that could handle both cards. I ended up selling my CFExpress cards for $50-60 each as part of my transition to CFExpress. My preferred card is the Delkin Power CFEXpress and Delkin reader. Performance is different with newer Z cameras.

Be careful about sourcing with the Sandisk CFExpress cards. The initial CFExpress cards were great with Canon, but not with Nikon. They were replaced about 18 months ago with a new model. You'll continue to see new faster cards, but stay away from cheap cards.

You'll see some reference to Minimum Sustained Speed. That's what really matters as cards are designed to reduce overheating by slowing. Higher end cards have a different components so heat is not an issue, and they can sustain a higher minimum sustained speed. ProGrade posts the minimum sustained speeds for their cards and you can see that larger cards in the Gold line have faster minimum sustained speeds. So generally stay away from 64GB cards, but it varies within a line as to whether 128GB or 256GB cards are any faster.

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[ilya]

Thanks a lot Eric, really helpful information!

 

[flyguy]

For my D850 I have a 128GB SanDisk Extreme Pro SD, NOT the fast SD card, in the first slot; and have a 120GB Sony XQD in the second slot. My D850 is set for stills recorded to the SD cards and anything video related is written to the XQD exclusively. For my D780, one slot has a 64GB SanDisk Extreme Pro for stills and the fast 64GB Extreme Pro in the second slot which is reserved for anything video related. These are my personal preferred memory card slot settings. I do not shoot wildlife or BIFs so have no worries about buffers on either DSLR.

 

[Roy]

Hi All,
I have been using my D850 for landscape photography and never really paid attention to my memory card type/speed, I was only concerned with the size of the memory card.
Last year I started to shoot mostly wildlife/birds and I started to notice the buffer limits when shooting action/BIF.
I've read several threads/discussion on this forum and watched some youtube videos about CF Express cards but I am still not clear what would work best for me with the D850 specifically.

I am currently using the Sandisk Extreme Pro SDXC cards. I have several "95MB/s UHS-I V30 Class 10 128GB" and one "170MB/s UHS-I V30 Class 10 256GB".
I ran some simple tests and my results are as following:
- I get about 20-21 frames on both cards before the buffer gets full which is about 3sec of shooting at 7fps.
- The 128GB card takes roughly 15-16sec to clear the buffer completely.
- The 256GB card takes roughly 12-13sec to clear the buffer completely (in the first 2 tries it took 19-20sec for some reason but then it dropped consistently to 12-13sec).

I checked the prices for UHS-II, XQD and CF Express-B memory cards and all of them seem to cost similarly so the decision to upgrade boils down to performance vs cost.

I found some test on youtube with Sony 128GB CF Express-B where the camera went up to ~30 frames@7fps before the buffer got full (seems like a decent increase over my current cards) but I couldn't find any test that shows how long it takes for the buffer to clear. Has anyone tried to test this on D850 with CF Express card?
I am hoping that it drops well below the 10sec mark .

Thanks a lot.

Its not the size of the card that sets the buffer - its the write speed.
All SD cards are slow, XQD are adequate and CFexpress are easily the fastest but most expensive.

 

[Walter Baliero]

Undoubtedly this is a very interesting topic, but too technical for my knowledge, so I want to ask the most knowledgeable what is the best speed setting for saving files in the camera, whether compressed or uncompressed, regardless of the type of card . Thanks a lot.

 

[EricBowles]

Its not the size of the card that sets the buffer - its the write speed.
All SD cards are slow, XQD are adequate and CFexpress are easily the fastest but most expensive.

That's correct - and it's the write speed in the camera - not what's listed on the card.

The one wrinkle is larger cards are normally designed to have components that have a faster minimum write speed. Where those break points are may not be disclosed. ProGrade does provide some details and the speed of the 512GB Gold card is much faster than the 128GB card but not as fast as the smallest Cobalt card.

 

[78Staff]

I faced similar decision recently for my D850 and D500, and went CFE only b/c CFE was cheaper than Sony XQD's at the time (likely due to holiday sales late last year). But, as already stated no real speed increase over XQD in the camera due to hardware capability, but supposedly with the appropriate reader, you will see faster file transfer speeds from card to PC/Mac. Also as stated, if you move to mirrorless you will want CFE, so you can think of it as upgrade-proofing as well.

 

[Calson]

The aspect of heat needs to be kept in perspective. Electronics are engineered to work at temperatures of 140 degrees or more and this is "hot" in terms of touch but not in terms of damaging the device.

With regard to XQD and CFexpress cards there are few card readers that work well in taking both types of card so I bought a separate CFexpress reader to use with my XQD card readers. When traveling it was necessary to take the XQD reader and fortunately my netbook has a SD card reader inside. With the Z9 I added one CFexpress card for video but for the most part I will continue to use my inventory of XQD cards. Any new card purchases will be the CFexpress cards.

With the D850 I carried two sets of memory cards in separate wallets, one for SDXC and one for XQD, and this was hardly ideal. The Z9 allows me to use a single memory card wallet and eventually a single card reader (when dual card readers emerge). Something to consider with a new camera purchase is the memory card type that it requires.

 

[Niels.hr.Hansen]

I'm using a Transcend CFexpress/B 256 GB. It claims to be 1700 Mb/sec. It was slightly more expensive than a QXD 128 Mb card, so just went for the extra capacity.
Using 14 Bit compressed images a burst would do 30-31 images before buffer is full, changing to 12 Bit gives additional 9 images.
Using my Kingston 256 GB SDXC will only give me 30 12 Bit images, and it takes 20 sec longer to switch of the write led.
But if not shooting in burst of more than 10-15 images I guess that it be no big deal if they are slower than optimum.