ScubaChuck
Member
Thanks, Carlson
sounds like good and efficient info. That’s what I am looking for. Stay healthy and keep taking pictures. Chuck
D850 or mirrorless?
- Thread starter ScubaChuck
- Start date
If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).
sounds like good and efficient info. That’s what I am looking for. Stay healthy and keep taking pictures. Chuck
CJC2
Member
If I really want light, I use my pair of Z6s with lenses like the 14-30, 24-70 F4 or the 24-200 variable apature. These are very useful for my news work in daylight. For sports, I use my Z9s with a 400TC or the 70-200 S. For portraits and general work I use my Z8 with the appropriate lens(es). You will, generally but not always, find mirrorless gear lighter. You need to deciede for yourself what you need based on what you intend to do, I'd suggest heading to you closest store to try or renting to see what you like.
ScubaChuck
Member
Thank you, I’ve been thinking about renting.
Beyond weight think about your existing glass AND software. I'm 80 but have a range of DSLR bodies and a lot to F glass. I can choose a lighter body (DF) or even a D5300 depending upon what I want to do. I did try one MILC but sold it and decided to stay with my DSLRs for the time being. I also have a D500 for when I want more cropping in a more distant subject. All of these are lighter than the D850, which I also have.
ScubaChuck
Member
The nice thing about underwater photography is the camera has no weight, just bulky.
ricardo00
Well-known member
But those underwater casings are expensive! And if one goes deep, one needs strobe lights.
ScubaChuck
Member
I think my setup was in the 10K range. Worth every penny because it was so exciting. The worst thing was lugging all the dive equipment and photo stuff on trips. I do miss it.
The Z8 is significantly lighter than the D850. If it is more than you want to pay, go for a Z7iii. The 100-400 Z lens can be hand-held by an 81-year old (me) and is very versatile. The 2x tele-extender works well it to give you 800mm reach.
Photography has so many tradeoffs between cost, weight/size, focal length, maximum aperture, AF capability, zoom vs prime, and sensor size.
The Canon and OM kits listed above look light weight and hence attractive. I've never shot them, so I can't comment on their performance. I've shot Nikon for many years and am currently shooting Nikon mirrorless with a number of telephoto lenses. I do mostly wildlife work, especially birds, and some landscape work.
Given my bird photography, I want the best AF I can get. (I'm sure I could also have great AF with other systems by Canon, Sony and OM.) I use a Z9 and Z8 for bodies these days. I previously had a Z7II and Z6II for mirrorless. My last DSLRs were a D850 and D500.
The Z9 is heavy and would not make sense given your desire for lower weight. The Z8 weighs about the same as a D850, so no weight savings. But it (as well as the Z9) has excellent AF for BIF and other action and in that respect is an upgrade from the D850. Sensor size and IQ for the Z8 (and Z9) are pretty much the same as the D850.
You could save weight by going to a Zf. It is about 10 ounces lighter than your D850. But it has only 24 mp, if that matters to you for printing, cropping and the like. I have held one at my dealer's, but have not used one yet. It sounds like AF is better than the Z7II/Z6II. Suspect it is not as good as the AF on the Z8/Z9.
You could also save weight using a Z7II. It is also about 10 ounces lighter than your D850. Basically the same sensor and IQ. Its AF is not as good for BIF and action as the Z8/Z9 and -- I expect -- the Zf. But it is an underrated camera for wildlife and better than the internet commentary would suggest. I used one, together with my D850, and then with my Z9 for wildlife, until I got a Z8 to go with my Z9. Another issue is that the Z7II has been out for a while and may be soon replaced by a new model (possibly a Z7III or maybe even a Z6III, depending on specs).
On the lens front, the Z 100-400 is the closest in focal length range to your 80-400 (which I used with my DSLRs). It is a bit lighter than your 80-400 -- I think about 6 ounces (assuming your 80-400 is the AF-S version). I find its focal length range and close focus ability quite useful. Optically, I think it is a bit better than the 80-400.
A lighter weight option is the Z 400 mm f4.5. This is about 15 ounces lighter than your 80-400. It's very nice to shoot with. But not a zoom if you need shorter focal lengths. If you need longer focal lengths (especially for birds), I find the Z 400 mm f4.5 takes the Z 1.4x TC very well and is also good with the Z 2x TC (of course, you add a bit of weight and lose a stop or two stops of aperture respectively). I have used this lens bare and with the two Z TCs. Like it a lot. Nice and light on a Z8.
I have the Z 180-600 mm lens. It's nice and versitile, but it is about 18 ounces heavier than your 80-400 mm, so I don't think it would help on the weight front.
Nikon does make a Z 600 mm f6.3 PF lens. It weighs about 4 ounces less than your 80-400 mm. Nice reach and also plays well with the 2 Z TCs. But not a zoom.
I think that some of the Z lenses have been made with the weight closer to the camera mount, which helps on balance. You'd likely want to hold the various alternaives and see what they feel like to you.
You could also try a lighter F mount lens. You could use the F mount 300 mm PF with an FTZ adapter if you go with a mirrorless body. Nice lens. I used it on my D850 and D500. WIth the adapter, it's about 25 ounces lighter than your 80-400. But only 300 mm (it does take the F mount 1.4x TCIII quite well to get to 420 mm f5.6) and not a zoom. The F mount 500 mm PF weighs about 5 ounces less than your 80-400, but would also need the 5 ounce FTZ adapter to use on mirrorless -- great lens. I sold my F mount PF lenses when I decided to get the Z 400 mm f4.5 and Z 600 mm PF lenses.
Good luck with your choice.
The Canon and OM kits listed above look light weight and hence attractive. I've never shot them, so I can't comment on their performance. I've shot Nikon for many years and am currently shooting Nikon mirrorless with a number of telephoto lenses. I do mostly wildlife work, especially birds, and some landscape work.
Given my bird photography, I want the best AF I can get. (I'm sure I could also have great AF with other systems by Canon, Sony and OM.) I use a Z9 and Z8 for bodies these days. I previously had a Z7II and Z6II for mirrorless. My last DSLRs were a D850 and D500.
The Z9 is heavy and would not make sense given your desire for lower weight. The Z8 weighs about the same as a D850, so no weight savings. But it (as well as the Z9) has excellent AF for BIF and other action and in that respect is an upgrade from the D850. Sensor size and IQ for the Z8 (and Z9) are pretty much the same as the D850.
You could save weight by going to a Zf. It is about 10 ounces lighter than your D850. But it has only 24 mp, if that matters to you for printing, cropping and the like. I have held one at my dealer's, but have not used one yet. It sounds like AF is better than the Z7II/Z6II. Suspect it is not as good as the AF on the Z8/Z9.
You could also save weight using a Z7II. It is also about 10 ounces lighter than your D850. Basically the same sensor and IQ. Its AF is not as good for BIF and action as the Z8/Z9 and -- I expect -- the Zf. But it is an underrated camera for wildlife and better than the internet commentary would suggest. I used one, together with my D850, and then with my Z9 for wildlife, until I got a Z8 to go with my Z9. Another issue is that the Z7II has been out for a while and may be soon replaced by a new model (possibly a Z7III or maybe even a Z6III, depending on specs).
On the lens front, the Z 100-400 is the closest in focal length range to your 80-400 (which I used with my DSLRs). It is a bit lighter than your 80-400 -- I think about 6 ounces (assuming your 80-400 is the AF-S version). I find its focal length range and close focus ability quite useful. Optically, I think it is a bit better than the 80-400.
A lighter weight option is the Z 400 mm f4.5. This is about 15 ounces lighter than your 80-400. It's very nice to shoot with. But not a zoom if you need shorter focal lengths. If you need longer focal lengths (especially for birds), I find the Z 400 mm f4.5 takes the Z 1.4x TC very well and is also good with the Z 2x TC (of course, you add a bit of weight and lose a stop or two stops of aperture respectively). I have used this lens bare and with the two Z TCs. Like it a lot. Nice and light on a Z8.
I have the Z 180-600 mm lens. It's nice and versitile, but it is about 18 ounces heavier than your 80-400 mm, so I don't think it would help on the weight front.
Nikon does make a Z 600 mm f6.3 PF lens. It weighs about 4 ounces less than your 80-400 mm. Nice reach and also plays well with the 2 Z TCs. But not a zoom.
I think that some of the Z lenses have been made with the weight closer to the camera mount, which helps on balance. You'd likely want to hold the various alternaives and see what they feel like to you.
You could also try a lighter F mount lens. You could use the F mount 300 mm PF with an FTZ adapter if you go with a mirrorless body. Nice lens. I used it on my D850 and D500. WIth the adapter, it's about 25 ounces lighter than your 80-400. But only 300 mm (it does take the F mount 1.4x TCIII quite well to get to 420 mm f5.6) and not a zoom. The F mount 500 mm PF weighs about 5 ounces less than your 80-400, but would also need the 5 ounce FTZ adapter to use on mirrorless -- great lens. I sold my F mount PF lenses when I decided to get the Z 400 mm f4.5 and Z 600 mm PF lenses.
Good luck with your choice.
Yeah, but all that dive gear weighs a lot more than any camera setup. I dove with a dry suit and I think I had to carry 30 lbs just on the weight belt. Not to mention the harness, tanks and BC, regulator, computer, knife, etc. Of course once you got down things are pretty much weightless.
Piecat
Active member
Thanks for sharing this shot!
Much respect for your profession.
ScubaChuck
Member
Thank you
Crop sensor cameras are your best bet for high IQ, small size, and low weight. Based on comments of users of these cameras, the best choices at the moment are probably these three.
- Canon R7, with 100-500mm or 100-400mm f/5.6-8 lens
- OMDS OM-1 (I or II), with 100-400mm lens
- Sony a6700, with 70-350mm lens
Sadly, Nikon doesn’t have a high-performance crop-sensor equivalent to any of these setups.
Good luck with finding a suitable replacement for your D850 setup.
- Canon R7, with 100-500mm or 100-400mm f/5.6-8 lens
- OMDS OM-1 (I or II), with 100-400mm lens
- Sony a6700, with 70-350mm lens
Sadly, Nikon doesn’t have a high-performance crop-sensor equivalent to any of these setups.
Good luck with finding a suitable replacement for your D850 setup.
ScubaChuck
Member
Thanks, I’ve been leaning towards the R7 and OM.
What about the Fuji XH-2s? Probably better all round than the Canon and Sony.
Fujifilm makes great cameras. Only the AF seems to be a bit weak at the moment. The OP mentioned being at a bird sanctuary, so I listed crop sensor cameras that have AF performance that is supposedly suitable for bird photography.
I own Nikon DSLR gear. I didn’t recommend any of the current Nikon DX mirrorless bodies either.
I own Nikon DSLR gear. I didn’t recommend any of the current Nikon DX mirrorless bodies either.
Shannon
New member
Lovely photo.
I also shoot with a D850. I am in my fifties and recovering from a pulled sciatic nerve and Long COVID. My strength is down. I also want to lighten my nature photography kit for hiking. I decided to pull the trigger on the Z8. I bought the adaptor for my Nikon lenses and decided to get one mirrorless lens for birding. I bought the Tamron 150 to 500 mm VC iii. I handheld for six hours of shooting and did very well! I also played around with well after sunset photography. I was pleased with the results and with not feeling beat up. Camera shake was becoming an issue for me with my D850, handholding. I got everything for $5460 plus tax. I am looking forward to growing with this camera and to continued recovery.
StefanSC
Well-known member
My travel kit usually has a m43rds Panasonic G9 or OM-1 with the PL 50-200 f2.8-f4 and TC1.4x as the tele option. It comes down to about 3lbs and it's nicely balanced. The lens is brilliant on it's own and handles the TC quite well (though you'll need to source that on the used market as Panasonic doesn't sell it as a stand-alone item).
A few shots with those combos:
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
And it even doubles up as a nice close-up lens for skittish insects:
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
I think you would be very happy with a Panasonic G9 II (basically a match for the OM-1, just with better video and image stabilizer), the PL50-200 f2.8-f4 and the TC14x and it shouldn't break the bank (I think they can all be sourced for under 4000$ these days).
If I had to pick another lightweight option from the list Palmor kindly provided on the previous page, it would be the Sony A6700 and Sigma 100-400mm as it hits a solid price/performance ratio (without major compromises) and opens up some nice upgrade paths for the future (like the new Sigma 500mm f5.6 if the wildlife bug really takes hold).
But the fact that I built a whole travel/landscape/nature system in under 5lbs with m43rds keeps me with this system.
P.S: also, from personal experience, I would avoid anything that has to do with the Panasonic 100-400mm lens or the Olympus 75-300mm lenses as they are ... subpar.
Last edited:
fcotterill
Well-known member
The 300 f4E PF is the other (very) light telephoto (755g) in the Greater Nikon Ecosystem. It doesn't get much publicity these days, but it's a most versatile wildlife lens, particularly for close-ups. It also pairs well with all 3 F-mount Teleconverters (subject to the well known constraints).
These days a Used copy is relatively affordable, and it should be covered by warranty if bought from a local camera retailer
bcgforums.com
These days a Used copy is relatively affordable, and it should be covered by warranty if bought from a local camera retailer
Nikon 300mm AF-S F/4 PF ED VR lens review
I recently upgraded from a nikon D7500 to a D850. I'm still using my tamron 150-600g2. I never shot with a prime lens and was thinking of a getting a nikon 300 to start. I like the idea of the light weight PF model, but I read a lot of mixed reviews. I often carry my camera while kayaking...
bcgforums.com
One inexpensive option is a used Z7 or Z7ii with the FTZ adapter. The AF accuracy is a nice step up from a DSLR and you get the benefit of light weight. It would not have the latest AF system of the ZF/Z8, but only birds in flight in certain situations have a significant jump in the keeper rate with the newer system. For perched birds, wading birds, and typical shorebirds, the Z7 is going to be able to do a good job. It would give you a chance to try everything else with current lenses - and allow rental or purchase of new lenses like the 600mm PF or 400mm f/4.5. You could find a used Z7 for $1200 or a Z7ii for $2000 - and sell it if you want to upgrade later.
Another option is the 500mm PF for your D850 (or with the FTZ on a Z camera). It's a smaller and lighter lens option that is very good optically. The shorter length makes it very easy to handle.
Another option is the 500mm PF for your D850 (or with the FTZ on a Z camera). It's a smaller and lighter lens option that is very good optically. The shorter length makes it very easy to handle.
I'd agree with the Fuji AF not being top notch, but the reviews seem to show that it is not too shabby either. I'll be getting one this month so I'll let you know!
Not familiar with the Canon or Sony, but can they go up to 40 fps?
Please share your findings with us. I see very little about Fujifilm cameras being used for wildlife and bird photography. You might turn some of us into Fujifilm converts.
Although 40fps is an impressive spec, I am less interested in shooting rate than AF speed and accuracy. Lately I have been setting my camera to single-shot mode, to avoid sorting through the vast numbers of photos high shooting rates lead to.
I would not necessarily use 40 fps either, but the Fuji spec is solid. DP Review said "the Fuji XH-2s is the camera for those who can't afford a Z9" and that is me. Nor can I stretch to Z8. I sold my D850 to get into the Nikon Z system as I have been a Nikon user for over 20 years - all of my digital photography life. However, the same year I bought my D850, 2018, I also bought a used Fuji XT-1 to see what mirrorless had to offer. Within a short time the D850 was only being used for the studio and I had 2 XT-4s and lots of lenses. I'm selling one of my XT-4s https://bcgforums.com/threads/fuji-xt-4-body-only-black-uk-only.32638/ to get an HX-2s that has 500 GBP (20%) off at the moment and I could not resist it! That is half of the price of a Z8. and I think it is great value if you already shoot with the Fuji system.
That sure looks like a solid crop sensor camera on paper.
The AF is not quite up there with the Z8/9, OM-1 or A1, but it 'ain't bad. I've seen it describes as the successor to the D500 if you are a crop camera fan. My Fringer adaptor allows all of my F mount lenses with AF motors to work on the Fujis too.