Damage due to pointing mirrorless camera at the sun

[jimfromno]

With the eclipse coming soon, April 8th, I've been wanting to photograph it. I live in an area where the shadow will pass over and don't want to pass up the opportunity. I've been scrambling to order the right fillter for the camera lens and just received and wanted to test it. I built this contraption with a hinge that would allow one remove the filter during the total eclipse and put it back on after it ends in approximately 4 minutes. I'm planning on using my Z9 and a Z 180-600mm lens to do this. Now here is my question for the forum. During my testing I messed up and exposed the sensor to the full sun un-filtered. I did this for several seconds before I finally realized what had happend. I don't know. The camera seems ok. This just happened so I haven't gone out and given it a thorough test. What do you all think?

 

[pomkiwi]

It is likely to be fine - a brief internet search suggests that damage may occur but the exposure probably needs to be prolonged. It should be esy to check by taking some test shots of a uniform scene - a cloudless sky of light coloured door or building.

 

[madone]

There was recently a FB Z9 group post I saw of someone saying his sensor was burned from taking a shot into the sun.
(ref: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nikonzcamera/permalink/1094541655088444)

He posted a pic of the shot that caused it and what the effects were of his sensor. Cost him $1300 (CAD) repair. I am not sure how likely it is, a lot of people in there conversation were saying it was a freak occurrence. Either way.. makes me wary

 

[SCoombs]

There was recently a FB Z9 group post I saw of someone saying his sensor was burned from taking a shot into the sun.
(ref: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nikonzcamera/permalink/1094541655088444)

He posted a pic of the shot that caused it and what the effects were of his sensor. Cost him $1300 (CAD) repair. I am not sure how likely it is, a lot of people in there conversation were saying it was a freak occurrence. Either way.. makes me wary

This strikes me as very odd. After all, People take photos that happen to have the sun in them all the time.

 

[jimfromno]

This strikes me as very odd. After all, People take photos that happen to have the sun in them all the time.

I tend to agree. I think that Nikon and other manufacturers know that people are going to be pointing their cameras toward the sun if unintentionally while shooting say wildlife in a tree that happens to be backlit. I imagine with the new AutoCapture one could leave the camera on a tripod for hours and an unforeseen occurrence is that some of those hours the sun is directly pointing at the camera lens.

 

[JAJohnson]

This strikes me as very odd. After all, People take photos that happen to have the sun in them all the time.

An excerpt of something I posted an another thread regarding this issue:
~~~
In order to get proper detail of the occluded sun (sun spots, flares, etc) you’ll need an exposure which captures as much visible light as you can. That visible light isn’t reflected light, it’s coming directly from the sun. This light contains a high degree of damaging UV radiation, focused intensely on your sensor. Just as you should not look at partial solar eclipses without proper filters for your eyes, you should not do that with your camera.

In sunrise/sunset photos your camera’s exposure isn’t set to capture details of the sun, even though the sun may be visible in the shot. Your exposure is set to capture reflected light from everything else in the photo. Also, the intensity of solar UV radiation (and visible light) is much lower during sunrise/sunset.

 

[SCoombs]

An excerpt of something I posted an another thread regarding this issue:
~~~
In order to get proper detail of the occluded sun (sun spots, flares, etc) you’ll need an exposure which captures as much visible light as you can. That visible light isn’t reflected light, it’s coming directly from the sun. This light contains a high degree of damaging UV radiation, focused intensely on your sensor. Just as you should not look at partial solar eclipses without proper filters for your eyes, you should not do that with your camera.

In sunrise/sunset photos your camera’s exposure isn’t set to capture details of the sun, even though the sun may be visible in the shot. Your exposure is set to capture reflected light from everything else in the photo. Also, the intensity of solar UV radiation (and visible light) is much lower during sunrise/sunset.

"In sunrise/sunset photos your camera’s exposure isn’t set to capture details of the sun, even though the sun may be visible in the shot."

This perfectly describes the photo in question, though.

 

[Lotuselite]

Perhaps not directly relevant to mirrorless cameras but I had to replace the shutter blind in a Leica 111G, (long time ago), after having left in on window sill where the sun was able to shine into the lens.
The lens focussed the sun on the shutter blind and as the sun moved across the view of the lens it burned a line through the blind across most of it.
Perhaps this is not a vulnerability with mirrorless and I expect that it may take a more lengthy time than it takes for an exposure to cause damage but I am not about to try to find out.
I would be curious to see if the same sort off thing could happen to the blind over the sensor in my Sony A1

 

[madone]

I did see a post somewhere (I’ll see if I can find it) of a melted Z9 sensor shield from that exact thing. Camera left with no lens cap on left in such a way the lens focused the rays right onto the shield and melted a hole in it.

 

[JAJohnson]

"In sunrise/sunset photos your camera’s exposure isn’t set to capture details of the sun, even though the sun may be visible in the shot."

This perfectly describes the photo in question, though.

Photos of that nature don’t damage the sensor.

 

[nautiboy]

Most of the time when people are pointed at the sun, the sun is lower in the sky and they're not using a ton of magnification. If you point a long telephoto at the sun up in the sky you will definitely cause damage. The exact duration of the exposure to cause damage, I'm not sure - I've never been willing to test it. lensrentals.com has posted numerous photos of sensor shields with holes burned right through them, sensors burned and melted, etc from people renting gear and taking eclipse photos.

Rental Camera Gear Destroyed by the Solar Eclipse of 2017

We recently had quite a spectacle in the United States, with a Solar Eclipse reaching totality throughout a large portion of the United States. Being that this was the first solar eclipse passing through the Continental US since 1979, excitement ran wild on capturing this natural event using the...

www.lensrentals.com

 

[Matt N]

Are there any resources for the do's and don'ts of shooting with the sun? I see photos all of the time with sunrises, sunsets, or the sun partly behind something (like a lighthouse or mountain). This isn't just for landscape either, it could be for a backlit wildlife shot.

 

[JAJohnson]

Are there any resources for the do's and don'ts of shooting with the sun? I see photos all of the time with sunrises, sunsets, or the sun partly behind something (like a lighthouse or mountain). This isn't just for landscape either, it could be for a backlit wildlife shot.

I don’t know of any advice specifically on this topic. I’m sure there’s reputable guidance on YouTube.

When capturing a photo in which the sun will be present, my general recommendation is to set exposure so that the subject’s details are present and know that the Sun is going to be a yellow/gold/orange disc in the sky. You’re not setting exposure to capture the Sun’s details, as you would in solar eclipse photography.

 

[jimfromno]

It is likely to be fine - a brief internet search suggests that damage may occur but the exposure probably needs to be prolonged. It should be esy to check by taking some test shots of a uniform scene - a cloudless sky of light coloured door or building.

I just heard back from a well know astro photographer that I contacted to ask about this and he said that no I probably did not damage the sensor. That the sensor is covered by a IR cutoff filter so it's not likely to be damaged. He suggested taking out of focus shots sky or of the clouds in the sky to see if these show damage to the sensor. He also suggested testing the lens by taking a series of photos at all f-stops 5.6, 8, 11, 16... at the same focal length and if those look alright there probably isn't any damage to the lens. However don't mess with the sun.

 

[nautiboy]

I just heard back from a well know astro photographer that I contacted to ask about this and he said that no I probably did not damage the sensor. That the sensor is covered by a IR cutoff filter so it's not likely to be damaged. He suggested taking out of focus shots sky or of the clouds in the sky to see if these show damage to the sensor. He also suggested testing the lens by taking a series of photos at all f-stops 5.6, 8, 11, 16... at the same focal length and if those look alright there probably isn't any damage to the lens. However don't mess with the sun.

Not trying to make you more nervous, but just bear in mind that depending on length of exposure and magnification, it'll burn through aperture blades, sensor shields, etc. - an IR filter is most definitely not going to save you. Also, as a side-note - if anyone is using a long telephoto with a drop-in filter slot, don't expect to be able to just drop in an ND filter to that slot and be OK - by the time the light gets to that filter, it could already have damaged the lens. The filtering needs to go on the end of the lens.

Definitely recommend running some tests, and hopefully everything checks out. But bright sun and long telephotos ... you gotta be careful.

 

[MrFotoFool]

Interesting discussion. I have photographed sunrise or sunset with full sun with a telephoto and never given it a thought (and never had damage). However this is when sun is on horizon, so intensity is presumably much lower. (I am also using fast shutter speeds). I am not photographing eclipse, so no concern there, but it is good to be made aware of possible damage if I ever shoot sun higher up in sky.

 

[nautiboy]

Interesting discussion. I have photographed sunrise or sunset with full sun with a telephoto and never given it a thought (and never had damage). However this is when sun is on horizon, so intensity is presumably much lower. (I am also using fast shutter speeds). I am not photographing eclipse, so no concern there, but it is good to be made aware of possible damage if I ever shoot sun higher up in sky.

Under most "normal" cases, I don't really worry about it. I point my 800 at the sun all the time without a filter - mostly at sunrise and sunset when there's much less intensity. I'm also usually handholding (or on a monopod with gimbal), so the image of the sun is moving all around and isn't quite as focused on one spot. Also, because I'm hand-holding, it's not pointed at the sun for long(ish) periods.

Where things really go wrong, especially with solar eclipses, is when people set up with a tripod and have their rigs pointed at a sun that's usually pretty high in the sky. So the focused sun image is in the same spot for a long period of time. It's even worse when you do like I do, which is to use an astro tracking mount to keep the camera pointed exactly at the sun the whole time and the sun remains in the same exact spot in the frame the whole time. That'll definitely start burning through gear unless you have a filter and/or put a cap/cover over the end when you're not shooting.

The problem is exacerbated with mirrorless cameras or if you're using live view on a DSLR because the sensor is directly exposed for long periods regardless of your shutter speed.

 

[Lotuselite]

Anyone who has used a Better Beamer on their flash can probably tell you what happens when you let the sun stay focussed too long in one place.

 

[Larry Shuman]

I'm planning on shootint the eclipse with my 600 and D4s. I bought the "Star Guy" solar filter that fit the front element. Attached is a test image of the sun using the filter. I can look thru the lens with no damage to my eyes or look at live view and again with no damage to the sensor or eyes. I got this from B & H

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[jimfromno]

I'm planning on shootint the eclipse with my 600 and D4s. I bought the "Star Guy" solar filter that fit the front element. Attached is a test image of the sun using the filter. I can look thru the lens with no damage to my eyes or look at live view and again with no damage to the sensor or eyes. I got this from B & HView attachment 85565View attachment 85566View attachment 85567

That's a great shot Larry. I wanted a removable filter like the one you have but I was too slow and couldn't get one in time for the eclipse. However I made one out of light weight foam board that's hinged to allow the filter to be easily removed during the total eclipse and then replaced after it ends, in my case in 4 minutes. Below are shots of my set up.