F-Mount Lenses vs. F-Mount w/FTZ Adapter Question

[Replytoken]

Currently I shoot with both m4/3rd's and Nikon DSLR's, with the latter being my equipment of choice for BIF. I appreciate what DSLR's offer, but am still interested in moving to Nikon's mirrorless Z bodies and lenses. My budget is not unlimited and I have been trying to figure out the best path to mirrorless that makes sense and is workable over time. I hope at some point to have some key lenses in the Z-mount, but that will take some time as my wallet will need some periods of recovery.

The question I have is with respect to using F-mount lenses with the FTZ adapter. I know that the adapter is not ideal solution, but I have not read many complaints about it other than the Z versions of lenses are providing better IQ than their F-mount counterparts and that has people upgrading when they can. But what I am trying to understand is if the IQ of F-mount lenses on the FTZ adapter is generally better, worse or the same as when these lenses are used on DSLR bodies. I have read a number of posts about older TC's working better with Z bodies and that had me wondering about lenses being used without TC's.

This arrangement will not be permanent, but it could be used for several years and I wanted to know what I can expect before I buy a Z body, most likely a Z6ii. I was planning to wait for the next released body hoping that is has AF performance more like the Z9, or the D500 I currently shoot with, but I suspect that body will be priced a bit above my budget, so I am now considering the Z6ii as it is on sale and will allow me to have some funds for lenses in the near future. Alternately, I can wait and transition later, but then I cannot take advantage of manually focusing with a mirrorless body when I do macro work. Shooting macro work on a DSLR is doable, but it is not as pleasant as with a mirrorless body, and I probably do as much macro as I do BIF, if not more.

Any thoughts?

--Ken

 

[DRwyoming]

But what I am trying to understand is if the IQ of F-mount lenses on the FTZ adapter is generally better, worse or the same as when these lenses are used on DSLR bodies.

In my experience the IQ of an F mount lens connected to a Nikon mirrorless camera via either of the FTZ adapters is as good or better than the same lens mounted to a Nikon DSLR. After all the FTZ adapter is just a spacer with no optical glass in it, it's basically the same as a macro extension tube and it makes up for the missing mirror box distance in a mirrorless camera compared to a DSLR.

I say good 'or better' because focusing accuracy can be a touch better with mirrorless cameras compared to DSLRs. For instance my 200-400mm f/4 lens delivers great image quality for close to medium distances on my DSLRs but can often be a bit soft for distant subjects and that's after AF Fine tuning. But on my Z6 II that same lens delivers great results both close and far with no AF Fine tuning at all. I attribute that to better focus accuracy with on the main sensor AF in mirrorless cameras.

Personally I don't find the FTZ adapter to be a problem at all. Sure lens quality continues to improve and the S lenses in particular seem to have great image quality plus some nice features like the extra function ring but I don't find using the FTZ adapter with my F mount lenses to be a problem nor a performance compromise.

 

[Replytoken]

In my experience the IQ of an F mount lens connected to a Nikon mirrorless camera via either of the FTZ adapters is as good or better than the same lens mounted to a Nikon DSLR. After all the FTZ adapter is just a spacer with no optical glass in it, it's basically the same as a macro extension tube and it makes up for the missing mirror box distance in a mirrorless camera compared to a DSLR.

I say good 'or better' because focusing accuracy can be a touch better with mirrorless cameras compared to DSLRs. For instance my 200-400mm f/4 lens delivers great image quality for close to medium distances on my DSLRs but can often be a bit soft for distant subjects and that's after AF Fine tuning. But on my Z6 II that same lens delivers great results both close and far with no AF Fine tuning at all. I attribute that to better focus accuracy with on the main sensor AF in mirrorless cameras.

Personally I don't find the FTZ adapter to be a problem at all. Sure lens quality continues to improve and the S lenses in particular seem to have great image quality plus some nice features like the extra function ring but I don't find using the FTZ adapter with my F mount lenses to be a problem nor a performance compromise.

Yeah, I do not remember having many AF Fine Tune issues until I bought my D500. I find that whole process, which ever one you choose, to be a pain in the backside (especially for my 200-500). So that was one of the benefits that I was looking forward to getting with the transition. But it is good to know that you have had good experiences with the adapter.

Assuming no horror stories, which I do not expect, the next question is do I want to get the Z6ii on sale, knowing that it is affordable and will give me a head start on some S lenses, or do I wait to see what the next body offers with respect to AF performance and know that it will most likely bleed my wallet dry and leave me no funds for lenses for some time. I have no plans to get rid of my D500 or D750 yet, but then that begs the question of why get the Z6ii and not wait.

Assuming that the Z line continues to mature, I eventually see my self with native lenses and possibly another body, but all of this will take some time and money, neither of which I have in abundance at the moment as I am still working and I seem to have a taste for steak on a hamburger budget. Knowing that any new body is not going to make me a better photographer makes it a bit harder to push down this road, but I do enjoy many of the features that mirrorless bodies offer. Still, I am under no illusion that a new body is a game changer. Lots to mull over.

--Ken

 

[DRwyoming]

Assuming no horror stories, which I do not expect, the next question is do I want to get the Z6ii on sale, knowing that it is affordable and will give me a head start on some S lenses, or do I wait to see what the next body offers with respect to AF performance and know that it will most likely bleed my wallet dry and leave me no funds for lenses for some time. I have no plans to get rid of my D500 or D750 yet, but then that begs the question of why get the Z6ii and not wait.

I love my Z6 II and use it a lot but I'd guess it comes back to the age old question: Is there something your current camera gear isn't doing as well as you'd like...

Or with the paradigm shift to mirrorless do you want to invest now to start experiencing and learning about mirrorless technology and are you willing to take a bit of a financial hit to get on board now for that learning? That's basically why I picked up my Z6 II as I have no complaints with my D6 or D500 and they're still my go-to cameras for most wildlife work though for a lot of more casual stuff I find I reach for my Z6 II most of the time now.

If it will be a financial stretch to buy your next camera and you're happy with your current cameras I'd suggest holding a bit and realize that a prosumer mirrorless camera is probably coming before too much longer. But if you really want to get hands on time with mirrorless then a Z6/Z6 II or Z7/Z7 II might make a lot of sense.

 

[Replytoken]

I love my Z6 II and use it a lot but I'd guess it comes back to the age old question: Is there something your current camera gear isn't doing as well as you'd like...

Or with the paradigm shift to mirrorless do you want to invest now to start experiencing and learning about mirrorless technology and are you willing to take a bit of a financial hit to get on board now for that learning? That's basically why I picked up my Z6 II as I have no complaints with my D6 or D500 and they're still my go-to cameras for most wildlife work though for a lot of more casual stuff I find I reach for my Z6 II most of the time now.

If it will be a financial stretch to buy your next camera and you're happy with your current cameras I'd suggest holding a bit and realize that a prosumer mirrorless camera is probably coming before too much longer. But if you really want to get hands on time with mirrorless then a Z6/Z6 II or Z7/Z7 II might make a lot of sense.

I shot with a D300 from 2008-2012 and loved the camera. I was in the process of getting longer glass and a decent tripod and ballhead at the time when I hit a very major detour due to health issues. I then picked up a refurbished Olympus in 2012 as I was too weak to handle my Nikon gear. I kind of fell in love with their system and ended up building up two camera systems.

In 2017, I treated myself to a D500 and to be perfectly honest, it is the one camera that that has caused me more frustration than any other I have owned in over 30+ years. It has been one annoyance or another, so I would be happy to move on, but few cameras I can afford offer an AF system that can compete, even though this is what gives me much of my frustration. I'll continue to use my Olympus and Panasonic gear for casual use as it is compact for travel and fun to use, excepting things like BIF.

While I can see using a FF mirrorless more often (especially since Panasonic and OM System appear to be in a slow retreat from the market), it is macro/closeup and BIF that I primarily want to use a FF body and some of my lenses. I know the EVF and rear screen will make macro and manual focusing much easier as they do with my current mirrorless bodies. And, as I mentioned above, I will be happy if I do not need to deal with AF Fine Tuning as well. But, I know few, if any, folks who would sing praises of the Z6ii as a BIF body, regardless of what glass is put on it. So, it does not seem like the appropriate mirrorless replacement for the D500. But I am not sure I would be able to afford what Nikon does eventually release if it is a FF body. The D500 bent the price/performance curve at the time it was released, so long as you did not mind an APS-C sized sensor, which I did not.

I considered keeping the D500 and trying to find a faster focusing lens than the 200-500 (my other BIF frustration), or selling the D500 and buying a D850, but both of those would pull major funds away from moving to mirrorless, and not necessarily help me with macro work. I also have an old AF-S 300mm f/4 and the TC-14ii that I have also been using, and if I could get slightly better IQ from the Z6, that has some appeal for BIF. That was why I had initially asked about F-mount glass with the FTZ adaptors. I know that Z-mount telephoto lenses are not going to be cheap, and it will take a few years until I can acquire any that would be good for BIF.

Sometimes I think that my life, and my wallet, would be happier if I stopped wanting to shoot BIF, but that seems too much like quitting, and I guess that I am a bit stubborn about this since what I have shot to date leaves me wanting more.

--Ken

 

[Butlerkid]

I shot with a D300 from 2008-2012 and loved the camera. I was in the process of getting longer glass and a decent tripod and ballhead at the time when I hit a very major detour due to health issues. I then picked up a refurbished Olympus in 2012 as I was too weak to handle my Nikon gear. I kind of fell in love with their system and ended up building up two camera systems.

In 2017, I treated myself to a D500 and to be perfectly honest, it is the one camera that that has caused me more frustration than any other I have owned in over 30+ years. It has been one annoyance or another, so I would be happy to move on, but few cameras I can afford offer an AF system that can compete, even though this is what gives me much of my frustration. I'll continue to use my Olympus and Panasonic gear for casual use as it is compact for travel and fun to use, excepting things like BIF.

While I can see using a FF mirrorless more often (especially since Panasonic and OM System appear to be in a slow retreat from the market), it is macro/closeup and BIF that I primarily want to use a FF body and some of my lenses. I know the EVF and rear screen will make macro and manual focusing much easier as they do with my current mirrorless bodies. And, as I mentioned above, I will be happy if I do not need to deal with AF Fine Tuning as well. But, I know few, if any, folks who would sing praises of the Z6ii as a BIF body, regardless of what glass is put on it. So, it does not seem like the appropriate mirrorless replacement for the D500. But I am not sure I would be able to afford what Nikon does eventually release if it is a FF body. The D500 bent the price/performance curve at the time it was released, so long as you did not mind an APS-C sized sensor, which I did not.

I considered keeping the D500 and trying to find a faster focusing lens than the 200-500 (my other BIF frustration), or selling the D500 and buying a D850, but both of those would pull major funds away from moving to mirrorless, and not necessarily help me with macro work. I also have an old AF-S 300mm f/4 and the TC-14ii that I have also been using, and if I could get slightly better IQ from the Z6, that has some appeal for BIF. That was why I had initially asked about F-mount glass with the FTZ adaptors. I know that Z-mount telephoto lenses are not going to be cheap, and it will take a few years until I can acquire any that would be good for BIF.

Sometimes I think that my life, and my wallet, would be happier if I stopped wanting to shoot BIF, but that seems too much like quitting, and I guess that I am a bit stubborn about this since what I have shot to date leaves me wanting more.

--Ken

I, too, never found love with the D500. OTOH, the D5 and D850 made my heart soar!

D850's (and probably D5's) are going for a song these days. And 600mm E's are starting to hit the used market..... And 500 PF's are nice also. And both those lenses work beautifully with the FTZ II adapter if you later decide to go mirrorless.

Just some thoughts....

 

[Replytoken]

I, too, never found love with the D500. OTOH, the D5 and D850 made my heart soar!

D850's (and probably D5's) are going for a song these days. And 600mm E's are starting to hit the used market..... And 500 PF's are nice also. And both those lenses work beautifully with the FTZ II adapter if you later decide to go mirrorless.

Just some thoughts....

Yes, your prior comments on the the D850 both got me considering one when the sale started, and also wondering if there were folks who had similar thoughts about the Z6ii.

The 500 PF has also been on my want list for some time, and one even briefly appeared on sale recently that really had me pause for a moment , but then it did get me wondering if my 300mm AF-S + TC-14ii or 200-500 were viable, and clearly more affordable, alternatives I should reconsider.

I guess that I am feeling like what I would like to buy is not going to be easily affordable (i.e. Z8/Z6iii/Z70), and that the Z6ii on sale may be what I can best afford, even though it is not really the most appropriate replacement if I wanted to move on from the D500. And when I put the list together of Z-mount lenses that I was seriously considering, I had to do a double take at their total cost. I know they can be bought over time, and bought used, but it was still costly enough to make me re-evaluate if shooting BIF was worth it given how limited my free time to head out is these days. I absolutely know my fieldcraft needs work since I cannot get out enough to get lots of practice, but I also know that some equipment does not help the situation, like the 200-500's slow acquisition of focus.

I do have time on the sale (and am also recovering from a recent minor surgery) so I am trying to use it to my advantage to figure out my best path forward.

--Ken

 

[NorthernFocus]

In your OP you mention shooting BIF. I've not owned either Z6/ii or Z7/ii but have read dozens of forum posts of people complaining that the AF speed of those bodies is not up to action shooting. Something to consider.

That said, in direct response to the OP I can only speak to my experience with the Z9 which is that f-mount glass adapted via the FTZ if anything is sharper and AF is at least as fast as on DSLR. Most of my shooting with the Z9 has been with f-mount glass namely the 500mmPF, AF-S 80-400mm, and 70-200mm f4. All of those lenses were excellent.

 

[BLev65]

I used the Z6II for active wildlife photography with both the 500PF, 200-400mm f4G, and 70-200FLE. I would typically put the Z6II on one lens and the D500 on the other. When I knew I'd need a tighter field of view, I'd put the 500PF on the D500. You CAN use the Z6II + FTZ for active wildlife, like birds in flight... but there some caveats.
1. The pairing works best with larger birds that you can track before shooting. Good luck if you are trying to make a "grab shot" w/out pre-focusing.
2. Small birds on clutter free branches will be no problem, but if you are trying to isolate a warbler on a brach w/ both background and foreground distractions, you will need to pre-focus.
3. I found Z6II tracking to be best when birds are flying towards you (see attached example).
4. While the Z6II can shoot and focus at 12FPS, you won't see "live" tracking... this is problematic if you are trying to maintain composition.

Between this time last year and the present, I have sold all my F-Mount glass, replaced it w/ Z-mount equivalents (as best as I could) and added a Z9. While I still have a Z6II, it does not get a lot of use. As expensive as it is, I am now considering the purchase of a second Z9 instead of adding the 800PF to my bag.

regards,
bruce

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[Replytoken]

I used the Z6II for active wildlife photography with both the 500PF, 200-400mm f4G, and 70-200FLE. I would typically put the Z6II on one lens and the D500 on the other. When I knew I'd need a tighter field of view, I'd put the 500PF on the D500. You CAN use the Z6II + FTZ for active wildlife, like birds in flight... but there some caveats.
1. The pairing works best with larger birds that you can track before shooting. Good luck if you are trying to make a "grab shot" w/out pre-focusing.
2. Small birds on clutter free branches will be no problem, but if you are trying to isolate a warbler on a brach w/ both background and foreground distractions, you will need to pre-focus.
3. I found Z6II tracking to be best when birds are flying towards you (see attached example).
4. While the Z6II can shoot and focus at 12FPS, you won't see "live" tracking... this is problematic if you are trying to maintain composition.

Between this time last year and the present, I have sold all my F-Mount glass, replaced it w/ Z-mount equivalents (as best as I could) and added a Z9. While I still have a Z6II, it does not get a lot of use. As expensive as it is, I am now considering the purchase of a second Z9 instead of adding the 800PF to my bag.

regards,
bruce
View attachment 50255

Great image! For the most part, I do tend towards larger birds like eagles, geese, swans and herons. I try to avoid grab shots, but they do come up from time to time, especially when there are a large number of eagles feeding in one place. Unfortunately, a Z9 is just out of the question, but I am hoping that its AF technology does make its way down the line, hopefully sooner rather than later.

--Ken

 

[Whiskeyman]

... with native lenses and possibly another body, but all of this will take some time and money, neither of which I have in abundance at the moment as I am still working and I seem to have a taste for steak on a hamburger budget. Knowing that any new body is not going to make me a better photographer makes it a bit harder to push down this road, but I do enjoy many of the features that mirrorless bodies offer. Still, I am under no illusion that a new body is a game changer. Lots to mull over.

--Ken

Time to put down the steak and start eating hot dogs! This is camera gear we're talking about here.

 

[joe43]

I own one Nikon mirroress body, the Z9. I own only two Z mount lenses, the 100-400mm S lens and the 24-200mm S lens. I own and use a lot of Nikon F mount tele lenses on my Z9 with the FTZ adapter: 500mm f5.6 pf, 300mm f4 pf, 70-200mm f2.8, 300mm f2.8, etc. Using them on the Z9 has worked out fine. I see no need to sell them at a loss and buy a Z mount lens just to have it.

 

[Replytoken]

Time to put down the steak and start eating hot dogs! This is camera gear we're talking about here.

Sounds good to me as I love hot dogs, but will you talk to my doctors about this idea? I am not so sure they would be on board, although they do like the holiday cards I make every year with my photos. Oh, and then there is my wife...

--Ken

 

[Whiskeyman]

Sounds good to me as I love hot dogs, but will you talk to my doctors about this idea? I am not so sure they would be on board, although they do like the holiday cards I make every year with my photos. Oh, and then there is my wife...

--Ken

You could go for the ones make with turkey parts... ? Or PB & J! On a hot dog bun, of course.