Frame Rate Examples

[MotoPixel]

Given a couple recent threads about advantages and disadvantages of shooting/editing at various frame rates, I put together a quick demo comparing a slow pan through the forest behind my house.

I shot 4 clips of the same slow pan angle at frame rates of 24, 30, 60 and 120fps with shutter speeds of 1/50, 1/60., 1/125 and 1/250 respectively. All clips were shot in UHD, H.256, 10-bit with my Z9 and the Z 100-400mm zoom at 100mm, f8 and auto ISO. Manually focused for the trees at the forest edge beyond a stream that cuts through my property. No color grading or additional processing was applied in Davinci Resolve Studio, only simple cut edits and titles.

The same 4 clips were inserted into 3 separate 4K timelines, of 23.976Hz, 29.97Hz and 59.94Hzand individually rendered at the timeline frame rates to H.265 Main 10 files at best quality setting and uploaded to YT.

If you have the ability to set your monitor refresh to the same refresh rates as the clips, as I do with my 32" 4K Dell display, you'll find that interesting as well when you play the clips whose rates are different. What refresh rates are most of you running on your displays for photo and video editing? If you're editing 24fps timelines, do you have your monitor refresh set for 24Hzor is it running at 30Hz or 60Hz? Curious to hear what others are doing or if they've even considered it. For normal photo and video editing, I leave mine at 30Hz

I think you'll find that as simplistic as this test is, these clips will prove enlightening. I'm inclined to get out and shoot a couple other scenarios in a similar manner, perhaps something like panning to track vehicles some distance away that would show the effect of frame rates on a static background behind the vehicle as you pan with them. Comments or ideas for a particular, repeatable scenario are welcome.

Cheers!

 

[jeffnles1]

Very interesting. I'm one of the people who started a thread about this. I do think I see some differences here but wasn't really sure what I was looking for. I'm such a novice with video I'm not sure even what questions to ask.

Right now, pretty much have the video set on aperture priority, 4K 30p (for no other reason than it was in the middle of the range) and pretty much auto everything. As the weather breaks and I can get out more, I'll be messing more with video and hopefully will start to see what different settings do and what impact they have. An example is I have not shot anything in CLog yet. I assume it is like RAW in stills but processing it is a little daunting so I'm just shooting in whatever out of camera is.

This is going to be a fun journey. Thank you for posting this I am goin to keep an eye out for other things you post. Good info.

 

[Nimi]

Given a couple recent threads about advantages and disadvantages of shooting/editing at various frame rates, I put together a quick demo comparing a slow pan through the forest behind my house.

I shot 4 clips of the same slow pan angle at frame rates of 24, 30, 60 and 120fps with shutter speeds of 1/50, 1/60., 1/125 and 1/250 respectively. All clips were shot in UHD, H.256, 10-bit with my Z9 and the Z 100-400mm zoom at 100mm, f8 and auto ISO. Manually focused for the trees at the forest edge beyond a stream that cuts through my property. No color grading or additional processing was applied in Davinci Resolve Studio, only simple cut edits and titles.

The same 4 clips were inserted into 3 separate 4K timelines, of 23.976Hz, 29.97Hz and 59.94Hzand individually rendered at the timeline frame rates to H.265 Main 10 files at best quality setting and uploaded to YT.

If you have the ability to set your monitor refresh to the same refresh rates as the clips, as I do with my 32" 4K Dell display, you'll find that interesting as well when you play the clips whose rates are different. What refresh rates are most of you running on your displays for photo and video editing? If you're editing 24fps timelines, do you have your monitor refresh set for 24Hzor is it running at 30Hz or 60Hz? Curious to hear what others are doing or if they've even considered it. For normal photo and video editing, I leave mine at 30Hz

I think you'll find that as simplistic as this test is, these clips will prove enlightening. I'm inclined to get out and shoot a couple other scenarios in a similar manner, perhaps something like panning to track vehicles some distance away that would show the effect of frame rates on a static background behind the vehicle as you pan with them. Comments or ideas for a particular, repeatable scenario are welcome.

Cheers!

Thanks for posting. I have them turned on at the same time, can't discern a difference. All a little jittery, but that could be my wifi or my phone.

Most if not all my work is on socials, which is in turn viewed 90% on mobile. My workflow (shoot and edit and download at 24-30 depending on client specification) included finishing editing on PP, then export into my Google Drive, download on my phone, view, edit, repeat.

 

[MotoPixel]

Thanks for posting. I have them turned on at the same time, can't discern a difference. All a little jittery, but that could be my wifi or my phone.

Most if not all my work is on socials, which is in turn viewed 90% on mobile. My workflow (shoot and edit and download at 24-30 depending on client specification) included finishing editing on PP, then export into my Google Drive, download on my phone, view, edit, repeat.

You're not going to see any appreciable difference on a mobile device...probably would have a hard time seeing a difference if I'd uploaded content in regular 1080HD. View it on a 65" 4K TV and you'll darn sure see it. I do some product training setup videos for a local MFR and we upload everything in 1080 30p...no need for more as 95% are viewing on a mobile device or laptop.

 

[MotoPixel]

Very interesting. I'm one of the people who started a thread about this. I do think I see some differences here but wasn't really sure what I was looking for. I'm such a novice with video I'm not sure even what questions to ask.

Right now, pretty much have the video set on aperture priority, 4K 30p (for no other reason than it was in the middle of the range) and pretty much auto everything. As the weather breaks and I can get out more, I'll be messing more with video and hopefully will start to see what different settings do and what impact they have. An example is I have not shot anything in CLog yet. I assume it is like RAW in stills but processing it is a little daunting so I'm just shooting in whatever out of camera is.

This is going to be a fun journey. Thank you for posting this I am goin to keep an eye out for other things you post. Good info.

Sounds like you're in the ballpark with your starting point, but don't lock yourself in, mentally, to a single approach. I can't speak to shooting in different formats, log vs raw vs H.264 or H.265 on anything other than my Z9, but most of the time, what I get from non-raw or non-log content is great if I get the exposure right at the outset. Color grading a Raw or log clip is another level of complexity that you'll have to invest some time in learning...if you don't invest the time, you'll likely end up frustrated, but once you "get" it, it's like a light bulb goes on and you "see the light", no pun intended. Seems to me you have the right attitude...always learning!

 

[Ed Erkes]

Here's a good article on frame rates with wildlife examples.

 

[MotoPixel]

Here's a good article on frame rates with wildlife examples.

Good find!

 

[MartyD]

Thanks for taking the time to create and post these, much appreciated.

 

[jeffnles1]

Sounds like you're in the ballpark with your starting point, but don't lock yourself in, mentally, to a single approach. I can't speak to shooting in different formats, log vs raw vs H.264 or H.265 on anything other than my Z9, but most of the time, what I get from non-raw or non-og content is great if I get the exposure right at the outset. Color grading a Raw or log clip is another level of complexity that you'll have to invest some time in learning...if you don't invest the time, you'll likely end up frustrated, but once you "get" it, it's like a light bulb goes on and you "see the light", no pun intended. Seems to me you have the right attitude...always learning!

Thanks. Words of encouragement for sure. I've been shooting stills for a little over 40 years. From darkroom antics to current day post processing. While I do not do what some would call extensive post processing, it is not trivial either. My goal is always to make the image look like what I remember seeing. Anyone who has tried post processing in the realist genre understands what I'm talking about.

Video is new and I'm trying to learn. Part of the reason for moving to mirrorless, and moving from Nikon to Canon was to learn something totally new. I watched my grandmother waste away with dementia and I'm seeing my mother go down the same road. At 62 there is still time left and the more we can keep our brains active and learning new stuff the better off we will be in yeas to come.

Jeff

 

[Garfield]

I hope MotoPixel doesn't mind me piggybacking onto his thread, but his thread and the linked Photographylife article inspired me to do a quick edit of some grab-bag footage of some overwintering Sandhill Cranes near us. The footage was captured at 4k120fps and 4k60fps in H.265 NLog using the 180 shutter rule, but output 4k60p -- the first time I've tried a 60p timeline. There's nothing special about the footage but I'm very pleased with the fluidity of the video. In fact I'm thinking of adopting 60p as my default timeline unless I need to do serious slow-mo.

Footage captured with the Nikon Z9 and Sony 200-600 + 2xTC with Megadap ETZ adapter.

 

[sh1209]

Looks great to me

 

[MotoPixel]

I hope MotoPixel doesn't mind me piggybacking onto his thread, but his thread and the linked Photographylife article inspired me to do a quick edit of some grab-bag footage of some overwintering Sandhill Cranes near us. The footage was captured at 4k120fps and 4k60fps in H.265 NLog using the 180 shutter rule, but output 4k60p -- the first time I've tried a 60p timeline. There's nothing special about the footage but I'm very pleased with the fluidity of the video. In fact I'm thinking of adopting 60p as my default timeline unless I need to do serious slow-mo.

Footage captured with the Nikon Z9 and Sony 200-600 + 2xTC with Megadap ETZ adapter.

No worries here, my intent is to encourage experimentation...it's how we learn, right?

Nice work and IMHO does benefit from shooting at higher frame rates. That lens and adapter works very well on the Z9. One question for you based on a couple times I noticed the focus seemed a little slow to track focus on the cranes...are your AF Speed and AF sensitivity set at defaults? I've been experimenting with those for different types of shots and in general, I set the AF Speed a click or two higher and adjust the AF Sensitivity higher or lower depending on the surroundings of the subject. With small birds in a lot of clutter, I set the sensitivity lower...seems to help with inadvertently locking on branches, etc. These settings are G6 and G7.

 

[MotoPixel]

Thanks. Words of encouragement for sure. I've been shooting stills for a little over 40 years. From darkroom antics to current day post processing. While I do not do what some would call extensive post processing, it is not trivial either. My goal is always to make the image look like what I remember seeing. Anyone who has tried post processing in the realist genre understands what I'm talking about.

Video is new and I'm trying to learn. Part of the reason for moving to mirrorless, and moving from Nikon to Canon was to learn something totally new. I watched my grandmother waste away with dementia and I'm seeing my mother go down the same road. At 62 there is still time left and the more we can keep our brains active and learning new stuff the better off we will be in yeas to come.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I can relate to your background in photography, followed a similar path starting in my mid-teens. I totally agree with your comments about aging and keeping our brains and bodies active and engaged in learning and pursuing what we're passionate about. I've ridden motorcycles all my life and at 73, I still do quite a bit of riding, though much of it is off-road to get to places I might not otherwise be able to get to easily, especially out West. I don't push the limits as I once did, but I still feel like the focus and coordination required to navigate challenging conditions helps keep my reflexes and ability to focus on the moment sharp. Also keeps me in shape for hauling a Z9 around! lol

To borrow Clint Eastwood's line in "The Mule"..."Don't let the old man in"

 

[ElenaH]

For me the most pleasing for the eye was 24fps on 24-timeline following by 30fps - on 30 and 60fps - on 60. However, 120fps on 60 was also not so bad. But 24 - on 24 and 30 on 30 looked like more stable picture, the other had some flickr effect. But I may be wrong! I am not an expert and I looked at videos on normal notebook and not on 4K monitor.
I don't know what "enlightening" in video is what actually shall I see?

 

[MotoPixel]

Hi Elena, I appreciate your comments thanks for chiming in. You'll have to tell me, regarding "enlightening", we each approach that from different perspectives, no?

One variable that I've not heard any of the responders comment on is the refresh rate of the display they're viewing on. This can have a substantial impact on the smoothness of motion when content has to be displayed at a frame rate different than its native rate. Typically, laptops operate at 59.997Hz, though some have options. Desktops are generally the same, though again, higher-end displays can run at a variety of refresh rates. The common denominator for most consumer displays would 59.997Hz (60Hz), so 24Hz or 24fps is going to have to have unequal numbers of subsequent frames of the 24fps source repeated. Here's a pretty good video that touches on some of this...better examples than I put together hastily.

Mind those lions!!!

 

[ElenaH]

we each approach that from different perspectives, no?

indeed ;-)
I saw that video some months ago and it brought me to decision to not shoot at 24fps and using 24-timeline. It looked for me too complicated and restricted. I use 30fps, I thought that 30 will be ok on 60HZ monitor. Each frame is shown 2x longer than 60fps but it must not be some flickering, or?
Hmm.. however, it is very tempting to have cinametic videos.
I like also a 80% idea.

Mind those lions!!!

 

[Garfield]

No worries here, my intent is to encourage experimentation...it's how we learn, right?

Nice work and IMHO does benefit from shooting at higher frame rates. That lens and adapter works very well on the Z9. One question for you based on a couple times I noticed the focus seemed a little slow to track focus on the cranes...are your AF Speed and AF sensitivity set at defaults? I've been experimenting with those for different types of shots and in general, I set the AF Speed a click or two higher and adjust the AF Sensitivity higher or lower depending on the surroundings of the subject. With small birds in a lot of clutter, I set the sensitivity lower...seems to help with inadvertently locking on branches, etc. These settings are G6 and G7.

Thanks. Yes, the adapted 200-600 seems to work quite well for the most part but I have no illusions that a native Nikon lens would probably be faster to AF, and most certainly will have better VR. The biggest drawback with the Megadap is the inability to focus when zooming which I do a lot so I have to try to remember to zoom, stop, then shoot or I just have to cut out the bad part of the clip.

I'm still learning to use the Z9, but video AF speed is maxed out at +5 and sensitivity is 3. For AF I use a custom wide area (largest it can be made) to provide lots of "tracking" latitude, but I don't use subject tracking. When shooting using autofocus I only use AF-C using the BBF, otherwise the camera defaults to MF. Pretty well the only time I use AF is for BIF.

 

[Activert]

Here's a good article on frame rates with wildlife examples.

Thank you! I read the article and it is really very interesting.