Frustrating AF with Nikon Z8 + 100-400mm when "shooting" whales

[NorthernFocus]

...I have found that Auto to work better than 3D in many cases much to my surprise I might add. Something I had never used in the past on DSLR's.

3D does a good job of tracking but starts with the subject that's under the focus box when AF is activated. Auto finds and tracks the target all by itself. Auto has the advantage of finding a target that you may not be able to get the focus box on due to subject or camera motion. It has the disadvantage that it may choose a target other than what you want.

 

[Eilish]

FWIW - I found the transition to Nikon mirrorless went much quicker when I quit trying to apply DSLR focusing "logic" to new focus modes and subject detection features that form the basis of mirrorless technology.

Learn the new focus modes with an open mind. Subject detection only works well with certain subjects. If it is not working, turn it off. Then the camera will stop trying to find something you think it should recognize. Instead, follow Dan's advice and restrict the area in which the camera should find the subject.

AND - yes - the Z9 and Z8 ARE much improved over DSLRs. But that requires learning how to apply those features and focus modes and when not to. My D5 and D850 were "easier" because they lacked the complexity of the new mirrorless features and focus modes.

Thank you for your thoughts. I have been amazed with the Z8's abilities in settings other than photographing whales, so fingers crossed I figure out the best settings for that environment.

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3D does a good job of tracking but starts with the subject that's under the focus box when AF is activated. Auto finds and tracks the target all by itself. Auto has the advantage of finding a target that you may not be able to get the focus box on due to subject or camera motion. It has the disadvantage that it may choose a target other than what you want.

3D does a good job of tracking but starts with the subject that's under the focus box when AF is activated. Auto finds and tracks the target all by itself. Auto has the advantage of finding a target that you may not be able to get the focus box on due to subject or camera motion. It has the disadvantage that it may choose a target other than what you want.

This morning's shoot of great blue herons and great white egrets again disappointed me. These are "easy subjects" for me (with D500/D850 + 500mm PF) with nice separation between subject and background. Again, I missed so many shots from takeoff into flight with Z8 + 100-400mm. Could the difference in lenses be an issue? What settings would you use for a standing heron 50 feet away? What's the recommended setup for: AF-ON, Fn1,Fn2 DISP, (video on/off button I use for a low ISO, slow shutter speed shots.) Perhaps most importantly, where is 3D best positioned? THANKS!

 

[NorthernFocus]

This morning's shoot of great blue herons and great white egrets again disappointed me. These are "easy subjects" for me (with D500/D850 + 500mm PF) with nice separation between subject and background. Again, I missed so many shots from takeoff into flight with Z8 + 100-400mm. Could the difference in lenses be an issue? What settings would you use for a standing heron 50 feet away? What's the recommended setup for: AF-ON, Fn1,Fn2 DISP, (video on/off button I use for a low ISO, slow shutter speed shots.) Perhaps most importantly, where is 3D best positioned? THANKS!

First off I don't use 3D at all. Seemingly one of few people who don't but I get frustrated with it and just don't see the need so don't bother with it.

I'm old school BBF with shutter button AF off.

My base AF setting for birds is wide area S for static and L for BIF. C1 is set up for an even larger box than wide/L and C2 is set as a 1x1 area. I have the DISP button set to toggle subject detection on/off via RSF. Fn1 button set to wide area C2(1x1)+AF-ON. Fn2 button to change AF areas. I use the video button to toggle FX/DX.

For static birds/animals if subject detection isn't working with wide/S I'll hit the Fn1 to activate the C1(1x1) to help it zero in. If subject detection isn't working at all I toggle it off and then wide area works much like group area on DSLR.

 

[ccirelli]

An item on my Z8 firmware wish-list, for sure - Subject Detection modes can only be changed from the i-Menu, and the standard menus. This needs to be mappable to a custom button. So yes I also have AF Area Mode / Subject Detection always in the upper-right corner of the i-Menu, and it's actually very quick to tap the i button and roll the dial to change subject detection modes (thankfully).

* Yes, it can also be changed via RSF, but I already have my RSF set for single point + subject detection off, as Steve recommends.

Similar note, I noticed the "permanent" AF Area Mode left-side button is customizable in Video mode, but not in Still mode. So weird (unless someone can explain why this button is locked down in stills mode).

Another option, not as nice as RSF, for turning Subject Detection on or off is to add AF Area Mode/Subject Detection to the iMenu.

 

[John_DE]

I had very good results photographing whales about a year ago with a Z9 by going to Dynamic-small whenever subject detection was struggling. Still use dynamic as my fall-back AF mode, but less now with the improvements in Z9/8 firmware.

 

[Don'sPhotoStream]

I'm in AF-C only and have AF-ON button assigned to AF+3D focus. Maybe I should try Steve's suggestion of putting 3D on Fn1 and simply keep AF only on AF-ON, keeping them separate. This, however, seems to defeat the use of 3D on this fancy-dancy Z8. On initial test comparing the two cameras, I had no problems focusing with D500 + 500mm yet the Z8 + 100-400mm was miss after miss. For the $$ spent, I must be missing somethings. Yes, I've watched Steve's videos and others, and have assigned other function buttons with a large area that I then passed off to a smaller focus area if AF doesn't pick up the subject. Lots of buttons to get the AF to detect whale....

I’m still a work in progress when it comes to the Z9 and Z8 focus systems, but I have found that I have better success when I focus on the subject with the small or large focus box with one button (I’m using the shutter release button) then when I have focus, I press the back button autofocus to turn on the 3D autofocus as needed. If I simply start with the 3D focus, I find that box moving all over the scene trying to find focus.

 

[joe43]

My response does not deal specifically with whales but with the Z9's AF settings and related settings. About 8 days ago, I was using my Z9 with the Z mount 100-400mm attached to photograph fast moving purple martins flying in to roost. The sky was cloudless but the moon (over 90%) was visible in ambient and sunset light. The birds were all over the place at different distances from the camera so achieving focus and triggering the shutter was a challenge.

Camera was set to AF-C, continuous high, shutter set Release (very important), AF set to Dynamic or Wide with subject detection turned on. On some series I ended up using manual focus which seemed to work better than just Dynamic or Wide.

My advice is to double check the Custom Settings a1 and a2 and set them to Release. This might help resolve a portion of the issues.

 

[Rassie]

So is the issue that the 3D algorithm does not recognize the subject of "whales" in comparison to birds, dogs, deer, etc, and therefore the 3D will be useless for the purposes of shooting whales and likely other sealife?

I suspect that while the AF system may not recognize a whale it will likely lock onto its eye if that's visible. Whale eyes, however, seem to be hard to find in most whale pictures I've seen. Like you, I also have the back button set to 3D tracking, and the shutter button to AF-C as well. I have my FN1 button set for Recall Shooting. When I hit that the AF reverts to single point AF. I've been using that to focus on birds in the foliage when the eyes are not clear enough for subject recognition to latch onto.

 

[arbitrage]

Thank you for your thoughts. I have been amazed with the Z8's abilities in settings other than photographing whales, so fingers crossed I figure out the best settings for that environment.



This morning's shoot of great blue herons and great white egrets again disappointed me. These are "easy subjects" for me (with D500/D850 + 500mm PF) with nice separation between subject and background. Again, I missed so many shots from takeoff into flight with Z8 + 100-400mm. Could the difference in lenses be an issue? What settings would you use for a standing heron 50 feet away? What's the recommended setup for: AF-ON, Fn1,Fn2 DISP, (video on/off button I use for a low ISO, slow shutter speed shots.) Perhaps most importantly, where is 3D best positioned? THANKS!

I avoid 3D totally. I don't think it is ready for primetime. Maybe for perched birds it can work.

I would concentrate on using Wide Area modes. Customize the size for the type of subject you are shooting. Wide Area is so much better than 3D.

If you want to do the "handoff" method of starting in Wide Area and then handing off to 3D or Auto after it starts tracking, I found handing off to Auto better. Still, if you can keep the Wide Area box on your subject in motion I'd just stay in Wide Area and not handoff.