How much should I ask for licensing a bird photo for use in a for-profit children's book?

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GrandNagus50

GrandNagus50

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I am not and have never been a professional photographer. Every once in a while I am asked by nonprofit organizations to allow them to include one of my photos in a publication or project. A few small government agencies have also asked. I have allowed these organizations the use of my photos (with a photo credit, fwiw). \

I was just asked via email by a photo editor at DK publications (a division of Penguin Books) to allow the use of a bird photo in an upcoming children's book.

My own ethic is not to allow the use of my photos for free by for-profit companies. It's not that I am trying to build up a professional brand (that ship sailed long ago), but it's out of respect for actual professional photographers. If all of us allowed free use of our photos in all situations professional photographers would pretty much be out of business. I know different people have different ethical guidelines here; my point is not to begin any arguments.

I have decided that I will grant this permission only for a fee that is at least in the ballpark of what a professional photographer would expect. How much would it be reasonable to ask for?
I suspect that once I ask for a licensing fee I won't hear back, but that's ok. Like I said, I don't need or crave the "fame" that comes with having my name in tiny print in some publication somewhere.

Doug Greenberg
 
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Nimi said:
For a book, perpetual license, one image, I get between $8 and 10k. I'm a professional photog, mostly commercial, some editorial (magazines). In some cases I get "residuals" if the publication is syndicated.
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Is that $8 to10000, or $8000-10000? If the latter, yikes, that seems like a lot. What is the minimum you would accept?
 
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GrandNagus50 said:
Is that $8 to10000, or $8000-10000? If the latter, yikes, that seems like a lot. What is the minimum you would accept?
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$8,000. If i really need the money to pay the mortgae, I'm in the wrong profession.

There is a saying in the profession: "know your worth." The industry has been forever dragged down by "guys with cameras," encouraged by the publishers. You ask for your rate, they come back and say "we can get it cheaper from Joe Schmo." The correct answer is "thanks for considering me."
 
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I usually ask what their budget is with a number in the back my head. If they're experienced, they know the going rate.

For reference my wife is currently writing a children's book. The cost for a professional illustrator for a roughly 15 page book (illustrations on every page) is $5800. In your case, chances are the author is footing the bill not the publisher so it might not be so much what the publisher will pay but what the author can afford.
 
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GrandNagus50 said:
I am not and have never been a professional photographer. Every once in a while I am asked by nonprofit organizations to allow them to include one of my photos in a publication or project. A few small government agencies have also asked. I have allowed these organizations the use of my photos (with a photo credit, fwiw). \

I was just asked via email by a photo editor at DK publications (a division of Penguin Books) to allow the use of a bird photo in an upcoming children's book.

My own ethic is not to allow the use of my photos for free by for-profit companies. It's not that I am trying to build up a professional brand (that ship sailed long ago), but it's out of respect for actual professional photographers. If all of us allowed free use of our photos in all situations professional photographers would pretty much be out of business. I know different people have different ethical guidelines here; my point is not to begin any arguments.

I have decided that I will grant this permission only for a fee that is at least in the ballpark of what a professional photographer would expect. How much would it be reasonable to ask for?
I suspect that once I ask for a licensing fee I won't hear back, but that's ok. Like I said, I don't need or crave the "fame" that comes with having my name in tiny print in some publication somewhere.

Doug Greenberg
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Hey, thanks for asking and for not offering free work, especially to a commercial outfit!

I rely on fotoquote to help me gauge prices and licensing. For a published book, some of the things I would ask to build a quote are how large the press run is, what country(ies) it'll be published in, how large the image will be that in the book (1/4, 1/2, full, double page, cover), and maybe some more details about the book - is it a textbook?

If you want to PM me some of the details I can grab a screenshot of what FotoQuote suggests the range would be.

Advertising photos and rates tend to be much higher, the photo is specifically used to sell a product. Photos in a book are typically used for illustration, so the rates are a bit lower. Usage rights also factor into it, sometimes advertising wants exclusive use for n-years while a book might be able to get away with non-exclusive (you can sell the image to others).
 
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Great question. I love that you don't want to do it for free, and considering that you're not interested or in need to become a pro-photog, here is a different perspective: Is there something of value that you've been wanting to buy (for example a second Z9, a lens, a trip, etc.) that is worthy of the image. Now that you have a ballpark of what the pro's charge, you can peg the price to something you'll benefit from and feel good about. What is it worth to YOU? Good luck, and keep us posted if you make the sale!
 
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Do your research then do what feels right for you. I learned doing sports photography that if you overprice an image, there are hundreds of other photographers with similar images to step in with a lesser price. A cool shot of a bald eagle in flight is not uncommon. I will say that if it's an awesome unique image, don't just give it away. Do they want it for a cover or page 86 in a 100 page book?
Good Luck,
Vinny
 
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VinnyH said:
Do your research then do what feels right for you. I learned doing sports photography that if you overprice an image, there are hundreds of other photographers with similar images to step in with a lesser price. A cool shot of a bald eagle in flight is not uncommon. I will say that if it's an awesome unique image, don't just give it away. Do they want it for a cover or page 86 in a 100 page book?
Good Luck,
Vinny
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While that is true to some extent, value is determined by scarcity and needs. Sports images come with their own unique challenges and the OP needs to price the image competitively for the market. My recommendation is to follow the advice which Jeremy and others have offered, determine FMV for the application (children's book - tends to be less margin and lower pay) and make a reasonable offer of a fee with perpetual license or lesser fee with residuals based on sales.
 
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Ahh, if it is RH then $5-10k is not unreasonable though again, you could make two offers, one for a targeted amount and a second, lesser one + residuals based on sales.
 
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GrandNagus50 said:
I am not and have never been a professional photographer. Every once in a while I am asked by nonprofit organizations to allow them to include one of my photos in a publication or project. A few small government agencies have also asked. I have allowed these organizations the use of my photos (with a photo credit, fwiw). \

I was just asked via email by a photo editor at DK publications (a division of Penguin Books) to allow the use of a bird photo in an upcoming children's book.

My own ethic is not to allow the use of my photos for free by for-profit companies. It's not that I am trying to build up a professional brand (that ship sailed long ago), but it's out of respect for actual professional photographers. If all of us allowed free use of our photos in all situations professional photographers would pretty much be out of business. I know different people have different ethical guidelines here; my point is not to begin any arguments.

I have decided that I will grant this permission only for a fee that is at least in the ballpark of what a professional photographer would expect. How much would it be reasonable to ask for?
I suspect that once I ask for a licensing fee I won't hear back, but that's ok. Like I said, I don't need or crave the "fame" that comes with having my name in tiny print in some publication somewhere.

Doug Greenberg
Click to expand...

And by the way, congratulations! That's quite an accomplishment!
 
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Usually children books are illustrated by professional illustrators. Surprised they want an actual photograph.
If this children book is going national or more, it's a big price like 8K plus. Regional or local as low as 300 dollars, maybe less. Pricing is hard to place, for sure.
 
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