How to influence ISO vs shutter speed choices (auto ISO)?

[Unscript]

Today, I took a few landscape shots in aperture-priority mode on my Z6III, with auto ISO. There was a good deal of daylight but it was foggy. I realized later that the ISO was really high and the shutter "speed" was really high, too (not really a speed since the units are all wrong, but that's how it's called).

For example, for f/9, ISO 6400 at 1/8000 s, and of course, the result is quite noisy. I really didn't need 1/8000 s. Arguably, the noise is likely more visible in those shots because of the low contrast. At f/4, it even jumped at 1/16000 s, with ISO 2800.

I know it's possible to set a maximum ISO in the ISO Sensitivity Settings, but the trade-off chosen by the camera puzzles me. Setting ISO sensitivity in the same menu seems to make the camera try to stick to that value in auto, unless the shutter "speed" gets under the Minimum shutter speed value, though I haven't done a lot of testing (when I took the shots, those values were respectively ISO 6400 and 1/100 s). I can't really lower Maximum sensitivity to 800 or 1600, or I'll have to change it back in darker conditions.

I wish there was a sort of "slope" setting to adjust the trade-off, depending on the current "need for speed".

How do you setup your camera in those situations? Do you use the manual mode, or do you force manual ISO when the scene is bright enough? Or is there another trick? It feels like a basic question, but I used to shoot with fixed ISO, and now that I'm using auto, I'm sometimes faced with that issue (after the fact).

 

[David Berry]

How do you setup your camera in those situations?

• Aperture : manual
• Time : manual
• ISO : auto (immediately changeable to manual)
• Exp.Comp. : adjusts ISO

Commonly referred to as ‘Manual with Auto ISO’.

---

On my cameras each of the four settings above is permanently assigned to its own dedicated dial/ring (three dials on the camera, plus the control ring on the lens).

I have also assigned a special button (next to the shutter button) to instantly reset adjusted settings to my defaults — effectively, a get-me-out-of-here panic button.

 

[Nimi]

Today, I took a few landscape shots in aperture-priority mode on my Z6III, with auto ISO. There was a good deal of daylight but it was foggy. I realized later that the ISO was really high and the shutter "speed" was really high, too (not really a speed since the units are all wrong, but that's how it's called).

For example, for f/9, ISO 6400 at 1/8000 s, and of course, the result is quite noisy. I really didn't need 1/8000 s. Arguably, the noise is likely more visible in those shots because of the low contrast. At f/4, it even jumped at 1/16000 s, with ISO 2800.

I know it's possible to set a maximum ISO in the ISO Sensitivity Settings, but the trade-off chosen by the camera puzzles me. Setting ISO sensitivity in the same menu seems to make the camera try to stick to that value in auto, unless the shutter "speed" gets under the Minimum shutter speed value, though I haven't done a lot of testing (when I took the shots, those values were respectively ISO 6400 and 1/100 s). I can't really lower Maximum sensitivity to 800 or 1600, or I'll have to change it back in darker conditions.

I wish there was a sort of "slope" setting to adjust the trade-off, depending on the current "need for speed".

How do you setup your camera in those situations? Do you use the manual mode, or do you force manual ISO when the scene is bright enough? Or is there another trick? It feels like a basic question, but I used to shoot with fixed ISO, and now that I'm using auto, I'm sometimes faced with that issue (after the fact).

Everything manual. Full control.

 

[joe43]

As already mentioned, you can accomplish what you want by using Manual with Auto ISO.

You can also set Aperture Priority; then go to ISO Sensitivity settings in your Photo Shooting Menu. Once there, select ON; then you can set max and min amounts if desired for your ISO range; and you can set a minimum shutter speed too.

When I am shooting landscapes, I often use Aperture Priority over Manual with Auto ISO. I set auto iso to ON; I set ISO to the max the camera allows; and I set a minimum shutter speed depending on whether i am using a tripod or hand holding, lens being used, etc.

Go to page 451 in the Reference Guide for your Z6iii. If you have any of Steve's guides for DSLRs or mirrorless cameras, his guide will over similar info but with more details.

Either approach will work as long as you understand what is happening with your group of settings.

 

[Woodyg3]

Well, something is very amiss if you are using auto aperture mode and the camera is selecting 1/8000. There has to be a setting that is off, but I'm not sure what it would be from your description.

In any event, full manual or manual with auto ISO is my preference for pretty much everything.

 

[DRwyoming]

I agree with the posts above and run either Manual with Auto ISO when I want an automated exposure mode to track rapidly changing light levels or full Manual with manually set ISO otherwise.

A mode that automatically adjusts two parameters such as shutter speed and ISO gives too much control to the camera’s programming for my tastes. One automatically set parameter along with exposure compensation is plenty.

 

[Mal Paso]

Yep, Manual or Manual with Auto ISO.

 

[Cameron T]

As with everyone else, I use manual mode with auto ISO for nearly everything, and swap to manual ISO if I'm going to be working off a tripod/have more time to fine tune exposure where I want it (v wildlife where I use auto iso).

 

[ButlerKid]

For me, landscapes = full manual. Unless there is a breeze creating motion in the scene, I prefer to set aperture and ISO, and then adjust shutter speed to fine tune the exposure. For landscapes and especially architecture, I generally do no care how long the shutter speed is.

 

[Ralph]

Today, I took a few landscape shots in aperture-priority mode on my Z6III, with auto ISO. There was a good deal of daylight but it was foggy. I realized later that the ISO was really high and the shutter "speed" was really high, too (not really a speed since the units are all wrong, but that's how it's called).

For example, for f/9, ISO 6400 at 1/8000 s, and of course, the result is quite noisy. I really didn't need 1/8000 s. Arguably, the noise is likely more visible in those shots because of the low contrast. At f/4, it even jumped at 1/16000 s, with ISO 2800.

I know it's possible to set a maximum ISO in the ISO Sensitivity Settings, but the trade-off chosen by the camera puzzles me. Setting ISO sensitivity in the same menu seems to make the camera try to stick to that value in auto, unless the shutter "speed" gets under the Minimum shutter speed value, though I haven't done a lot of testing (when I took the shots, those values were respectively ISO 6400 and 1/100 s). I can't really lower Maximum sensitivity to 800 or 1600, or I'll have to change it back in darker conditions.

I wish there was a sort of "slope" setting to adjust the trade-off, depending on the current "need for speed".

How do you setup your camera in those situations? Do you use the manual mode, or do you force manual ISO when the scene is bright enough? Or is there another trick? It feels like a basic question, but I used to shoot with fixed ISO, and now that I'm using auto, I'm sometimes faced with that issue (after the fact).

I could be wrong but if you want to shoot aperture preferred , I think you can set an upper limit for shutter speed similar to how you do with iso. But like everyone else has suggested, go with full manual for landscape.

 

[Steve]

To add to what's already been said, when you are in Aperture Priority or Program, the camera will use your currently selection ISO as a soft base ISO when using Auto ISO. So, I you have your normal ISO setting at ISO 6400, that's what the camera will use unless it's so bright that it runs out of shutter speed, only then will it drop.

FWIW, M + Auto ISO is easier. It ignores the selected ISO and sets what you need for the shot based on your shutter speed and F/stop.

 

[MartyD]

Check to make sure in Auto ISO settings you have minimum shutter speed set to auto.

 

[TomRC]

Full manual for everything all the time and WATCH THE HISTOGRAM!! Very simple and FAST and your exposure will always be close enough assuming you are shooting RAW. Histogram is your best buddy. On Sony bodies I set the rear wheel to quickly tweek ISO so no menu diving. I would assume there is an equally quick way of adjusting ISO on the latest Nikons without having to go into a menu.

A pro I worked with many years ago required me to shoot full manual for everything all the time. I was forced to learn quick but it was probably the best thing I ever did to improve my photography.

 

[Unscript]

Well, something is very amiss if you are using auto aperture mode and the camera is selecting 1/8000. There has to be a setting that is off, but I'm not sure what it would be from your description.

I find that strange, too. I noticed that ISO sensitivity was set to 6400, which must be a remnant from shots in manual mode in the dark. Normally, this parameter should be ignored in auto ISO, but it does seem to have an influence. When I changed it to 800 in a little experiment, the auto ISO went way down to try to stick to that value.

A mode that automatically adjusts two parameters such as shutter speed and ISO gives too much control to the camera’s programming for my tastes. One automatically set parameter along with exposure compensation is plenty.

I agree, unless there's a clear way to understand or specify the preferences. It could be advantageous not to have to set both the aperture and shutter speed every time, since that's one more parameter one could forget (and I'm a specialist in the forgetting department ).

For me, landscapes = full manual. Unless there is a breeze creating motion in the scene, I prefer to set aperture and ISO, and then adjust shutter speed to fine tune the exposure. For landscapes and especially architecture, I generally do no care how long the shutter speed is.

I used to set ISO manually in aperture mode and let the shutter speed decision to the camera for landscape. It seems it'll be either that and verify that the shutter speed is OK (when I'm not using a tripod) or auto ISO and verify it's OK. Or manual mode with auto ISO, which might help me not to forget about one loose parameter.

 

[Unscript]

I could be wrong but if you want to shoot aperture preferred , I think you can set an upper limit for shutter speed similar to how you do with iso. But like everyone else has suggested, go with full manual for landscape.

I only see the minimum shutter speed, so maybe it depends on the model. Yes, it would have been a good option.

To add to what's already been said, when you are in Aperture Priority or Program, the camera will use your currently selection ISO as a soft base ISO when using Auto ISO. So, I you have your normal ISO setting at ISO 6400, that's what the camera will use unless it's so bright that it runs out of shutter speed, only then will it drop.

FWIW, M + Auto ISO is easier. It ignores the selected ISO and sets what you need for the shot based on your shutter speed and F/stop.

I'll have to experiment a little with the soft ISO setting, but yes, methodically setting two parameters seems safer.

Check to make sure in Auto ISO settings you have minimum shutter speed set to auto.

Oh. That could be the key to the problem in auto ISO! I completely missed that option when I first read about those settings. It should indeed select the minimum speed to avoid handshaking problems, and it can even be fine-tuned with a faster/slower setting. Definitely something to experiment with.

Full manual for everything all the time and WATCH THE HISTOGRAM!! Very simple and FAST and your exposure will always be close enough assuming you are shooting RAW. Histogram is your best buddy. On Sony bodies I set the rear wheel to quickly tweek ISO so no menu diving. I would assume there is an equally quick way of adjusting ISO on the latest Nikons without having to go into a menu.

A pro I worked with many years ago required me to shoot full manual for everything all the time. I was forced to learn quick but it was probably the best thing I ever did to improve my photography.

Looking at the histogram is something I should try. I've never brought myself to do it except in difficult light conditions (yes, I'm shooting raw). Here, though, I can say that the histogram was only partially used in the middle of the dynamic since it was fog in a snowy landscape. But that's the same idea of checking all the parameters, which I failed to do (still happens to me, now and then).

 

[Unscript]

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions, I really appreciate you took the time!

Bottom line, it would help if I took the habit of checking all the parameters and not relying too much on the camera's decision, so manual mode with auto ISO or aperture mode with manual ISO. It sounds obvious, of course, but I heard too many advices to let auto ISO all the time, and I must have lowered my guard.

I'll try the auto minimum shutter speed setting and the "soft" minimum ISO, too, just to see if that helps for shots that don't leave much time for checking/setting all parameters.

 

[bleirer]

I find that strange, too. I noticed that ISO sensitivity was set to 6400, which must be a remnant from shots in manual mode in the dark. Normally, this parameter should be ignored in auto ISO, but it does seem to have an influence. When I changed it to 800 in a little experiment, the auto ISO went way down to try to stick to that value.


I agree, unless there's a clear way to understand or specify the preferences. It could be advantageous not to have to set both the aperture and shutter speed every time, since that's one more parameter one could forget (and I'm a specialist in the forgetting department ).


I used to set ISO manually in aperture mode and let the shutter speed decision to the camera for landscape. It seems it'll be either that and verify that the shutter speed is OK (when I'm not using a tripod) or auto ISO and verify it's OK. Or manual mode with auto ISO, which might help me not to forget about one loose parameter.

You don't have to set the f number and shutter speed every time. Just when the shooting situation changes or if you feel the auto iso is floating too high.

Think of manual with auto iso as shutter and aperture priority combined. Only the iso floats.

Decide once on the shutter speed appropriate for the motion in this situation and the f number appropriate for the dof you want and keep it there unless something changes. Iso will move with exposure compensation until it hits a limit since the other two are not auto, or if the auto iso is too high then try to tweak it with a little wider aperture or a little slower shutter. As others have said, be careful because it's better to deal with noise than with a blurry shot.

 

[dabhand16]

@Unscript
I only use auto ISO for action when there are changing light conditions or the potential of changing light Everything else I set the ISO and mainly use aperture priority and occasional manual.

 

[TomRC]

Full Manual IMO is the only way to achieve consistency and once you get the hang of it extremely fast. Using auto ISO, the other program modes and letting the camera make decisions in terms of Aperture, Shutter Speed or ISO are recipes for disaster. Back in the day we had to use a spot meter on grass or something kinda close to middle gray, take a shot, check the histogram (chimping), make adjustments and repeat until the histogram looked to be in the ballpark. Today shooting full manual is soooo much easier with mirrorless. Just keep a histogram viewable on the live display at ALL TIMES. The histogram IMO is the most valuable tool in your camera, only go by it and never what the exposure looks like on the live display. The live display is great and use the live display to get a general idea of where you are but verify you don’t have clipped highlights or crushed shadows by looking at the histogram.

But, you need to be able to adjust ISO without having to go into a menu. Very easy on Sony by assigning ISO to the rear dial. Can’t remember if the rear dial looking “thing” on Nikon bodies spins or not but it is best for time sake to adjust ISO by spinning a dial similar to how you adjust shutter speed and aperture. Once you don’t have to go into a menu for ISO you can dial in your exposure in seconds and then you don’t have to make any changes unless lighting changes but I always have my eye on the histogram. Simple, fast, consistent.

A bit off topic but same goes if you ever start using flash or strobes. Avoid TTL flash which is essentially “auto flash” like the plague. Turn off TTL, never turn it back on and adjust flash power manually.

 

[DRwyoming]

Bottom line, it would help if I took the habit of checking all the parameters and not relying too much on the camera's decision, so manual mode with auto ISO or aperture mode with manual ISO. It sounds obvious, of course, but I heard too many advices to let auto ISO all the time, and I must have lowered my guard.

That really is the key. No matter what level of exposure automation you use you really do want to keep an eye on:

- ISO
- Shutter Speed
- Aperture
- Any exposure compensation dialed in

You can set the camera up to automate some or all of that but you still want to know where everything is set while shooting. For instance, a lot of us really like Manual with Auto ISO as it lets us set the two primary creative exposure settings (shutter speed to stop or blur action, aperture to control depth of field) and let the camera adjust ISO but when running in that mode it's really important to keep an eye on ISO to make sure it's not a lot higher than it needs to be for the situation. Same is true for other automated modes, if running in Aperture Priority mode we still want to keep an eye on shutter speed (and ISO) to make sure it's reasonable for the situation.

Bottom line is really developing a field workflow where you scan the information in the viewfinder to make sure you know where everything is set and whether it's appropriate for the shot you're trying to capture. Having tools like a real time histogram in the viewfinder can help a ton but you still want to know how the individual exposure parameters are currently set so you can make adjustments as needed when one or more aren't where you want them for the situation.

 

[PhotoLover]

Full Manual IMO is the only way to achieve consistency and once you get the hang of it extremely fast. Using auto ISO, the other program modes and letting the camera make decisions in terms of Aperture, Shutter Speed or ISO are recipes for disaster. Back in the day we had to use a spot meter on grass or something kinda close to middle gray, take a shot, check the histogram (chimping), make adjustments and repeat until the histogram looked to be in the ballpark. Today shooting full manual is soooo much easier with mirrorless. Just keep a histogram viewable on the live display at ALL TIMES. The histogram IMO is the most valuable tool in your camera, only go by it and never what the exposure looks like on the live display. The live display is great and use the live display to get a general idea of where you are but verify you don’t have clipped highlights or crushed shadows by looking at the histogram.

But, you need to be able to adjust ISO without having to go into a menu. Very easy on Sony by assigning ISO to the rear dial. Can’t remember if the rear dial looking “thing” on Nikon bodies spins or not but it is best for time sake to adjust ISO by spinning a dial similar to how you adjust shutter speed and aperture. Once you don’t have to go into a menu for ISO you can dial in your exposure in seconds and then you don’t have to make any changes unless lighting changes but I always have my eye on the histogram. Simple, fast, consistent.

A bit off topic but same goes if you ever start using flash or strobes. Avoid TTL flash which is essentially “auto flash” like the plague. Turn off TTL, never turn it back on and adjust flash power manually.

I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with these statements:

Full Manual IMO is the only way to achieve consistency

or

Using auto ISO, the other program modes and letting the camera make decisions in terms of Aperture, Shutter Speed or ISO are recipes for disaster.

Certainly full manual is a fine choice in many situations; I should use it a bit more than I do. But manual + auto ISO is the *opposite* of a recipe for disaster in many situations. It allows one to shoot wildlife in changing light conditions, and wildlife photographers find it very very useful. It's an awesome default mode. For a wildlife shooter, one is often shooting wide open almost every shot, and having to worry about just one setting (shutter speed) when making quick shot selections is very helpful. You monitor ISO, of course and adjust the other variables as needed.

On my Nikon dSLRs, there is one dial for aperture, one for shutter speed, pressing the ISO button changes the function of one of the dials to ISO while the ISO button is pressed.

All that said, for landscape photography, the specific type of shot mentioned in the OP, you can certainly make a case for full manual with ISO set to 100 (presumably your trusty tripod is nearby) though I'm often on the move shooting "landscapes" handheld and my preference is again, manual + auto ISO and I balance the shutter speed and ISO to get the lowest ISO I can with enough shutter speed for a sharp image.

 

[bleirer]

Having EC readily available is the game changer for manual with auto ISO. Without EC I'd agree with the recipe for disaster comment, but with EC one can easily over ride any problem the auto iso might cause.

 

[John Navitsky]

generally speaking i think it’s prudent to only have a single setting in auto mode. so if you run auto iso l, manually set shutter and aperture. if you’re running shutter or aperture priority, set everything else manually.

you can do more complicated things, but they get complicated, and it’s easy to get into trouble, and i can say from first hand experience it becomes problematic to try to debug and fix it in the moment, leading to lost shot or suboptimal shots

 

[Lee R]

I use all my cameras in M and auto ISO probably 98% of the time. Occasionally I'll use just A mode. I never use S or P.

At least on Nikon Auto ISO is easy to activate, depending on what you set click, or hold ISO and rotate the front wheel to turn Auto On/Off. Back wheel to input ISO setting or in in Auto adjust the Max ISO setting. Super easy.

On the ZF in manual the ISO wheel becomes the max ISO setting if you set one time in the menus min ISO to 200 (auto ISO on) , it's better than Fuji's implementation when used that way. With one of the now many options that have an aperture ring you have a very easy dials based setup with Auto ISO and an easy way to adjust the range using the ISO wheel.

 

[TomRC]

I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with these statements:

If I was shooting a body that didn’t have a third dial wheel to assign ISO and had to press a button to go into a menu to change ISO, I would probably use auto ISO. I was thinking that rear dial turned on Nikon as it has been a number of years since I’ve shot Nikon and I forgot about this lack of a third dial wheel limitation. Once you get used to having the rear dial wheel set for ISO like you can on a Sony body it is second nature and practically instantaneous to make adjustments to shutter speed, aperture and ISO to get a good exposure no matter the circumstances or changing lighting conditions no matter how fast things change. 95% of the time I’m shooting wide open (set it and leave it), I know the shutter speed I need based on the focal length of the lens and whether I’m shooting something stationary or moving to get a sharp shot (set what I need and leave it) and in full manual the ONLY setting I’m having to change and can do so practically instantaneously is changing ISO with my thumb spinning the rear dial which is set to ISO. This allows you to shoot in any type of circumstance and only have to worry about changing ISO. Bought as simple and fast as it gets and the exposure is always consistent……..always consistent. If I start getting past the “clean ISO” range of a camera which these days is very very high I might have to mess with changing aperture or shutter speed but this rarely occurs. But if you don’t have that third dial like on a Sony I can see where auto ISO would be useful. Still wouldn’t trust it, but a necessary evil of sorts.