I'm confused

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Robert S

Robert S

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I need help understanding what the purpose is of my taking photos. The 'imminent' arrival of the Canon R7 Mk 2 has brought about a rethink in my photography. A great deal of the discussion here is about the equipment used to obtain a photo. I find that interesting in and of itself, however it is only a part of producing a final image. That part is important. Obviously in identical circumstances a prime will be better than a zoom. I leave that.
Just for my own interests in attempting to take better photos I have tried to list all the things that influence the final image. There is still the problem that because no two people see things the same there is no guarantee that getting it 'right' will have the desired result; that being acceptance of the image as something worth looking at.
Anyway this my list. I am sure there are things I have missed.

Focus.
Shutter duration. Type of shutter.
Aperture. Number of blades.
ISO
Lens characteristics.
Stability of the sensor.
Characteristics of the sensor.
Nature of the light. Angle of light.
Ability of the photographer.
Post processing.
Composition.
Dynamic range.
Depth of field.
Colour / black and white.
Commercial aspects. [ if relevant ]
Purpose of the photographer.

I think I have talked myself out of buying any more gear. Might sell the heavy lenses [ Sigma 120-300 and 70-200 both f2.8 ]
 
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Cameron T said:
If you don't know why you're taking photos, you have to answer that yourself. Nobody else can. If you don't enjoy it, you can either figure out why, or take a break and see if you want to come back to it.
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Thanks for the reply. I have not taken many photos recently. It's winter here, had a few health problems, and been doing other stuff. I thought about it and decided I was taking photos of the same thing. I guess the photos of the Scaly breasted lorikeets was a bit different in that they had a few abnormalities.
Seems to me there is a difference between 'why' and 'purpose' is relevant but I might be wrong.
Why do you take photos?
 
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NorthernFocus said:
Your list of technical/technique related items has little/nothing to do with purpose. You've listed a bunch of "what" but your question seems to be "why".
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Good point Dan. I guess that is my problem. Maybe I take photos in order to see more than I see while looking at things. That makes the purpose a bit iffy because I don't know before I see the photo what it was I was photographing. If I was still having to buy film things would be different.
 
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I just enjoy it. It has been over 40 years since I really engaged in photography (hobby). Now, I go out and enjoy the time in the field (outdoor photography). Learning to slow down and compose, etc., with the goal of satisfying my desire to have some photos that I like. Very few people see my photos.
 
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Hi Robert- I think the last thing on your list is the most important. All else falls in place in service of it, that is the craft. I should say that I'm speaking as a beginner, but I spent many years as a craftsman and the elements are the same.

When I think about my own photography goals, I think of:

Capturing an experience and sharing it with others.​
To show interesting behavior of an animal or bird in its environment that might be meaningful to others viewing.​
To show beauty I see in the natural world.​
To capture emotion.​
To document data on projects. Like bio-blitzes, native plant locations, birds, craft work, etc.​
​
Secondary goals:​
Take lots of practice shots to make the above more successful, think critically.​
Become familiar with my tools and make them 2nd nature. Know what to do to get the results I want.​
Learn post processing.​
These are all important because I see myself as a beginner. I'm using older tools (dslrs) that can still teach me a lot. At some point, newer ones will help, but in the meantime, seeing is the most important. Look at the light, choose a good BG, time of day, watch behaviors, go to the right places, have/find something to say.​
​
Motivations I'm wary of but have:​
Trying to demonstrate skills attained, sort of like showing off. This is not in and of itself a good goal...it diminishes the 1st set of goals that really make a good photo. A technically great photo may have no "meaning" to it. But I need to better my skills and there is always an element of finding some validation from others when presenting.​
​
I spent a career as a craftsman in wood, and some glass-blowing. When I was young, I really wanted to show how "skilled" I was, but the work suffered from this singular goal. If the work has a sense of purpose, it can have magic in it. I'm enjoying learning a new craft...​
 
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Micky said:
I just enjoy it. It has been over 40 years since I really engaged in photography (hobby). Now, I go out and enjoy the time in the field (outdoor photography). Learning to slow down and compose, etc., with the goal of satisfying my desire to have some photos that I like. Very few people see my photos.
Click to expand...
Enjoying life makes sense.
 
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AlanB313 said:
Hi Robert- I think the last thing on your list is the most important. All else falls in place in service of it, that is the craft. I should say that I'm speaking as a beginner, but I spent many years as a craftsman and the elements are the same.

When I think about my own photography goals, I think of:

Capturing an experience and sharing it with others.​
To show interesting behavior of an animal or bird in its environment that might be meaningful to others viewing.​
To show beauty I see in the natural world.​
To capture emotion.​
To document data on projects. Like bio-blitzes, native plant locations, birds, craft work, etc.​
​
Secondary goals:​
Take lots of practice shots to make the above more successful, think critically.​
Become familiar with my tools and make them 2nd nature. Know what to do to get the results I want.​
Learn post processing.​
These are all important because I see myself as a beginner. I'm using older tools (dslrs) that can still teach me a lot. At some point, newer ones will help, but in the meantime, seeing is the most important. Look at the light, choose a good BG, time of day, watch behaviors, go to the right places, have/find something to say.​
​
Motivations I'm wary of but have:​
Trying to demonstrate skills attained, sort of like showing off. This is not in and of itself a good goal...it diminishes the 1st set of goals that really make a good photo. A technically great photo may have no "meaning" to it. But I need to better my skills and there is always an element of finding some validation from others when presenting.​
​
I spent a career as a craftsman in wood, and some glass-blowing. When I was young, I really wanted to show how "skilled" I was, but the work suffered from this singular goal. If the work has a sense of purpose, it can have magic in it. I'm enjoying learning a new craft...​
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Helps a lot.
 
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I find enormous satisfaction in getting a great shot and improving my understanding of how to recognise and capture an image which works. I like bird photography because it is difficult but also because birds are interesting. I like portrait photography for similar reasons. Architecture and landscapes are challenging.
I can’t tell you exactly why I enjoy it so much. My key way of measuring which images are good is printing. I like to print images. That means just a few are printed. When I see the final print it is like looking again and assessing it anew. If my response is positive it goes on the wall. I frame some. It’s nice when people have strong positive reactions to the images.
Some pictures have an intangible quality that I enjoy. They make all the technical stuff and my fascination with that side of photography irrelevant. I still enjoy that side but it is the feedback the printed images provide which I am really hoping for.
For me it’s an engaging, expensive, challenging and diverting hobby. Buying cameras and lenses is actually all about trying things to see how they work for you. The cost of the equipment and what other people think of your choices is unimportant if it is something that works for you and gives you pleasure. The best part of moving to mirrorless equipment has been the opportunity to rethink what really works best. I have not been tempted by the most expensive, fastest aperture, heavy lenses. I do have a Z9 but none of my lenses are over the top. I prefer the F1.8 or F4 versions because they work beautifully. The only exception that I have tried is the Plena. I haven’t bought one but I have used it enough to know it is the exception to my rule about keeping the lens choices to ones which work rather than ones which have a lot of kudos.
 
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Griffym said:
I find enormous satisfaction in getting a great shot and improving my understanding of how to recognise and capture an image which works. I like bird photography because it is difficult but also because birds are interesting. I like portrait photography for similar reasons. Architecture and landscapes are challenging.
I can’t tell you exactly why I enjoy it so much. My key way of measuring which images are good is printing. I like to print images. That means just a few are printed. When I see the final print it is like looking again and assessing it anew. If my response is positive it goes on the wall. I frame some. It’s nice when people have strong positive reactions to the images.
Some pictures have an intangible quality that I enjoy. They make all the technical stuff and my fascination with that side of photography irrelevant. I still enjoy that side but it is the feedback the printed images provide which I am really hoping for.
For me it’s an engaging, expensive, challenging and diverting hobby. Buying cameras and lenses is actually all about trying things to see how they work for you. The cost of the equipment and what other people think of your choices is unimportant if it is something that works for you and gives you pleasure. The best part of moving to mirrorless equipment has been the opportunity to rethink what really works best. I have not been tempted by the most expensive, fastest aperture, heavy lenses. I do have a Z9 but none of my lenses are over the top. I prefer the F1.8 or F4 versions because they work beautifully. The only exception that I have tried is the Plena. I haven’t bought one but I have used it enough to know it is the exception to my rule about keeping the lens choices to ones which work rather than ones which have a lot of kudos.
Click to expand...
I think similarly. This is especially true..."It’s nice when people have strong positive reactions to the images." It makes it all fun and meaningful.
I of course take a lot of snapshots as well, but I'm trying to take things a little further.

One thing I like about photography is how immediate it can be. Setting up a photo can take a lot of planning and prep, but generally it's a fast medium. Making a complex piece out of wood can take a long time. Sometimes weeks or months on a single piece.
 
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While I cannot deny the advantages today’s tech can offer the photographer my purpose in photography is to spend time in nature, capture some of the beauty I see and, hopefully encourage others to appreciate those things we see as beautiful.
[edited to correct spelling error]
 
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I Agree but I do have to tell you that it can take years to get a good satisfying picture of a specific bird. Patience is a virtue in many pursuits.
AlanB313 said:
I think similarly. This is especially true..."It’s nice when people have strong positive reactions to the images." It makes it all fun and meaningful.
I of course take a lot of snapshots as well, but I'm trying to take things a little further.

One thing I like about photography is how immediate it can be. Setting up a photo can take a lot of planning and prep, but generally it's a fast medium. Making a complex piece out of wood can take a long time. Sometimes weeks or months on a single piece.
Click to expand...
 
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Robert S said:
Good point Dan. I guess that is my problem. Maybe I take photos in order to see more than I see while looking at things. That makes the purpose a bit iffy because I don't know before I see the photo what it was I was photographing. If I was still having to buy film things would be different.
Click to expand...
Well there you go. There's a purpose. To see the world through different eyes. That's one of the things that I enjoy about photography as well. I like the challenges posed by the field craft and technical aspects. And I like the details of things that are only revealed through still photography. So much so that photography inspired me to make fundamental, philosophical changes to how I view life.
 
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That is the danger of online photography content, and this forum in particular: falling down the gear hole. Directly followed, at a very distant second place, technique.

Both of those things enable people to take great, beautiful or meaningful and engaging images. Modern gear means the second is muc less relevant than it used to be, and is more and more marginalized by post-processing tech (just a different category of gear).

None of this so is the actual point of photography, of all varities, with the exception of the companies producing and selling gear. And the people promoting it. It certainly isn't contributing to the answer of the question why people take pictures. And people looking at images do not carw the tiniest bit about the gear and settings used, or the post processing, in producing the image.

Why people take poctures is highly personal, excluding professionals that work on specific assignments with the goal of producing specific results in specific time frame. Sounds to my like you hit a creative down, if so, take a brake. Just enjoy your time and look and enjoy cool abd intruiging things, see photos without taking them. If your motivation comes back, take pictures of these things.

That's the good thing of being an amateur (I assume): we can take those breaks, people earning their living cannot.
 
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Robert S said:
I need help understanding what the purpose is of my taking photos.
Click to expand...

For me the purpose of taking photos is the user experience in actually handing the camera and working the scene in front of me.

I only realised this since I started using manual focus prime lenses. I started with my Fuji cameras and found that they were cheap, light and gave great results. That gave me the incentive to try vintage manual focus lenses on my Nikon Z camera. After all, I was using these lenses when the were the state of the art! The vintage lenses are, like the modern manual focus lenses I have for my Fujis, cheap, light in the main and produce great images too. Fantastic build quality does mean that the longer lenses can be heavy as they are made from metal.

I decided to only get prime lenses when I realised that zoom lenses were making me very lazy in my composition. So easy to just use the zoom for framing and not working the scene.

I can honestly say that these lenses have put the fun back into photography for me and now I use them all of the time for my day to day shooting. I now only use my AF and zoom lenses for sport and action, or for shooting highly mobile Grandchildren - although I do have some great images of them taken with manual lenses too.
 
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Robert S said:
Good point Dan. I guess that is my problem. Maybe I take photos in order to see more than I see while looking at things. That makes the purpose a bit iffy because I don't know before I see the photo what it was I was photographing. If I was still having to buy film things would be different.
Click to expand...
Robert,
I posted "my" purpose above but have been thinking of your post and some of the responses and I think all are great. One amazing thing about this forum is the lack of "snarky" comments and rude behavior, I like that.

Back to your original post and what you responded above. The answer is going to be different for everyone. One thing you may try if you're hitting a creative roadblock, burnout, or "the thrill is gone" (sorry, BB King reference), would be to change it up a bit. Perhaps try a different genre of photography. You mention seeing things you didn't see before shooting the image.. Perhaps invest in a macro lens (the Canon 100mm Macro EF or RF are great lenses) and spend some time sitting around a garden, out in the woods or walking through the neighborhood and photograph the up close and personal world of macro. Tiny spiders and insects on flowers can be fascinating as can fungi with all their shapes and colors. Some common "weeds" have absolutely beautiful blossoms when photographed up close with a macro lens.

I call myself a nature and wildlife photographer because I do not specialize or limit myself to one type of subject. I do macro, landscape, wildlife, even some astro. However, I also do some event photography as a volunteer for my church and some local civic organizations. I'm not a specialist in that genre but it does stretch me a little as the techniques are different and catching "the moment" with people interacting with each other is far different than catching the moment with wildlife. I can read the signals with wildlife when something is about to happen. With people, I'm not as astute but it does help keep photography fresh trying different things.

I guess I can sum it up by saying if you're hitting a roadblock or losing the thrill maybe spend some time trying a type of photography totally different than what you've been doing and see if the challenge of the new thing helps bring it back. Taking a break is also a worthwhile suggestion. My only watch out here is a month or two break can very easily slip into a few year break and a few year break can become a decade break. I got bored playing guitar and set it aside for what was going to be a few months. It was nearly 10 years before I picked it up again. My son was about 4 and saw the guitar in the corner of my office and asked if I could play a song for him. I'm fully back into guitar playing (bought a banjo and a bass) and play weekly in my church and help fill in for a few other local churches when they need me. Moral of the story, don't let a few month break become a decade break. Takes a while for those skills to come back.

Robert, I hope my wandering ramblings help.
Jeff
 
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jeffnles1 said:
Robert,
I posted "my" purpose above but have been thinking of your post and some of the responses and I think all are great. One amazing thing about this forum is the lack of "snarky" comments and rude behavior, I like that.

Back to your original post and what you responded above. The answer is going to be different for everyone. One thing you may try if you're hitting a creative roadblock, burnout, or "the thrill is gone" (sorry, BB King reference), would be to change it up a bit. Perhaps try a different genre of photography. You mention seeing things you didn't see before shooting the image.. Perhaps invest in a macro lens (the Canon 100mm Macro EF or RF are great lenses) and spend some time sitting around a garden, out in the woods or walking through the neighborhood and photograph the up close and personal world of macro. Tiny spiders and insects on flowers can be fascinating as can fungi with all their shapes and colors. Some common "weeds" have absolutely beautiful blossoms when photographed up close with a macro lens.

I call myself a nature and wildlife photographer because I do not specialize or limit myself to one type of subject. I do macro, landscape, wildlife, even some astro. However, I also do some event photography as a volunteer for my church and some local civic organizations. I'm not a specialist in that genre but it does stretch me a little as the techniques are different and catching "the moment" with people interacting with each other is far different than catching the moment with wildlife. I can read the signals with wildlife when something is about to happen. With people, I'm not as astute but it does help keep photography fresh trying different things.

I guess I can sum it up by saying if you're hitting a roadblock or losing the thrill maybe spend some time trying a type of photography totally different than what you've been doing and see if the challenge of the new thing helps bring it back. Taking a break is also a worthwhile suggestion. My only watch out here is a month or two break can very easily slip into a few year break and a few year break can become a decade break. I got bored playing guitar and set it aside for what was going to be a few months. It was nearly 10 years before I picked it up again. My son was about 4 and saw the guitar in the corner of my office and asked if I could play a song for him. I'm fully back into guitar playing (bought a banjo and a bass) and play weekly in my church and help fill in for a few other local churches when they need me. Moral of the story, don't let a few month break become a decade break. Takes a while for those skills to come back.

Robert, I hope my wandering ramblings help.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Thanks for the post. Lot of good ideas.
I'm off to Darwin in a few weeks. More trips up Buffalo Creek chasing kingfishers. Hopefully opportunities to photograph other birds. I was last there December to early February of this year. Had a few back problems but nothing drastic. Two months ago my lower back decided to slow me down. Seems I have osteoarthritis. Doc says it can't be fixed just controlled. It's a pain in the back. Limits what I can do. Still mobile but have to take care. No big deal, for a geriatric I am doing good, and a bad back is not something to moan about. Occasionally I do get into grumpy old man mode. Apologies for that.
 
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Robert S said:
Thanks for the post. Lot of good ideas.
I'm off to Darwin in a few weeks. More trips up Buffalo Creek chasing kingfishers. Hopefully opportunities to photograph other birds. I was last there December to early February of this year. Had a few back problems but nothing drastic. Two months ago my lower back decided to slow me down. Seems I have osteoarthritis. Doc says it can't be fixed just controlled. It's a pain in the back. Limits what I can do. Still mobile but have to take care. No big deal, for a geriatric I am doing good, and a bad back is not something to moan about. Occasionally I do get into grumpy old man mode. Apologies for that.
Click to expand...
Hope you can find a way to manage the pain. I hurt my ankle in September. Still hurts some when I walk mort than 4 or so miles but I manage to hobble through. PT helped some but the do. Said an injury like this may take a year or more to completely heal.
 
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Robert S said:
Thanks for the post. Lot of good ideas.
I'm off to Darwin in a few weeks. More trips up Buffalo Creek chasing kingfishers. Hopefully opportunities to photograph other birds. I was last there December to early February of this year. Had a few back problems but nothing drastic. Two months ago my lower back decided to slow me down. Seems I have osteoarthritis. Doc says it can't be fixed just controlled. It's a pain in the back. Limits what I can do. Still mobile but have to take care. No big deal, for a geriatric I am doing good, and a bad back is not something to moan about. Occasionally I do get into grumpy old man mode. Apologies for that.
Click to expand...
My bad back during my 40s kept me from sitting and off the golf course for 5 years. I moaned a lot!😊
 
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Robert S said:
Just for my own interests in attempting to take better photos I have tried to list all the things that influence the final image. There is still the problem that because no two people see things the same there is no guarantee that getting it 'right' will have the desired result; that being acceptance of the image as something worth looking at.
Anyway this my list. I am sure there are things I have missed.

Focus.
Shutter duration. Type of shutter.
Aperture. Number of blades.
ISO
Lens characteristics.
Stability of the sensor.
Characteristics of the sensor.
Nature of the light. Angle of light.
Ability of the photographer.
Post processing.
Composition.
Dynamic range.
Depth of field.
Colour / black and white.
Commercial aspects. [ if relevant ]
Purpose of the photographer.
Click to expand...
I'm missing one fundamental item on that list, Robert: Distance. No matter how good the gear is, if distance is inappropiate for the subject vs frame, we are doomed and will only get a testimonial shot (that may be the final goal for many, of course!).

As to what drives or inspires this hobby... to me, is the sheer rush of the moment, the excitement of seeing the animal, the challenge of trying to (and more often than not, failing) to get them shot in a special situation...

Add to all this the preparation of the trip (short or long), thinking the targets, the gear to use (if you are having multiple choices), the (again) excitement of starting the travel (road or air) after planning what to pack, arriving to location, unpacking the gear and start checking all the settings (once again...)...

And finally, after each session, the checking on the laptop (on location) of the first pictures, thinking "I know I have one, I know I did get the one!" (only to find out it wasn't...LOL!)...

Editing in a rush the first pics and uploading it or sharing thru the cell it with your nearest and dearest ones that stayed back home worried about you being eaten by a croc... (LOL again).

Finally, starting to share (here kicks in the ego) online the pictures, to somehow "collect back" some of the "investment", not in $ but in praise, likes, comments... and then get a few printed or sending the files for friends to print...

We at home enjoy A LOT when friends comes home asking "hey, show us your pictures, I've seen one in FB and I bet there are more!".

I (very) proudly turn on the 85" TV screen and start scrolling thru the pics... much like when I was a kid and my parents would gather the family and friends to show them their travel slides projected on the wall... and tell them (before they fall asleep) the details about each one, enjoying their "awww" and their "wowww" each time. That's enough for me to start thinking about the next outing!

Not sure if this adds or not any positive thinking Robert, just thinking out loud here.
 
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