Landscapes shutter speed

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Robert S

Well-known member
I have bought an old wide angle lens that I intend to use to take landscape photos. I have looked at youtube and there is a lot of advice about long shutter speeds to give 'artistic' effect. My question is 'what shutter speed gives an image that is similar to what an average person sees?' Hope this is not a dumb question.

Sorry just googled and it seems the human eye is 1/50 second, ISO 1 during the day 800 in dim light.
 
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The only time a long shutter speed will give an artistic effect that alters what you see in the moment is if something is moving in the scene. Typically this is done with flowing water and sometimes even longer for clouds. Of course if it is windy then leaves and flowers will also be blurred by semi-long exposures.

What shutter speed replicates what you see depends on how much is moving. If it is cloudless and there is no wind or water, then virtually any shutter speed - even several seconds - will repoduce what your eyes see in one instant. If there is no water or wind but slow moving clouds, then I think shutter speeds even as long as one second will still produce a normal looking image. If there is a waterfall (or high wind) that is when you need a fast shutter speed to match what people see - probably at least 1/30 second or faster.
 
My thought process usually starts with aperture for landscapes. For a typical landscape image, I'm starting with an aperture of f/8-f/11 depending on the lens and scene. With a wider lens, hyperfocal distance rarely requires me to go beyond f/8 or f/9 and that keeps diffraction to a minimum.

Assuming I am on a tripod, I want to be at base ISO. That means ISO 64 or ISO 100 with minimal falloff. If there is wind or motion involved, my thought process may change to keep foliage or other elements from blurring.

That leaves shutter speed as my third variable. On a tripod, I'll set shutter speed for whatever is required to get the exposure.

Handheld, I have to think about the focal length and optimum shutter speed to balance ISO and freezing motion. Again assuming a landscape and a typical focal length of 24mm or so, I'd like to keep the shutter speed a little higher and stay at 1/60 to 1/200 sec. But if necessary, I have used as slow as 1/6 second to blur water with a handheld image using in camera image stabilization on the Z7ii. I know at 1/6 second even with good technique I'll need to take more photos and account for a lot of missed or blurred shots. So if I'm dropping below 1/60 second or 2x the focal length, I'll consider raising ISO and adjusting to a wider aperture.

There are plenty of good reasons to use a long exposure and blur something in your image for creative effect. For me, that usually involves water. My typical blurred water photos start at 2 seconds and can get much longer. I often slow the exposure by photographing on an overcast day or with light rain, using a slightly higher aperture, using Lo 1.0 ISO, and using a Circular Polarizer. If this won't do the job, I add a ND filter.
 
My question is 'what shutter speed gives an image that is similar to what an average person sees?' Hope this is not a dumb question.

Sorry just googled and it seems the human eye is 1/50 second, ISO 1 during the day 800 in dim light.
I'm sure photographers have come up with pseudo equivalents but you can't really compare what the human eye sees in real time images to the shutter speed chosen for a single still image, for cinematic and video work there may be closer equivalents but for stills work it's sort of an apples to oranges comparison.

Both posts above are right on target and more or less how I approach the choice of settings for scenics. But in terms of what we show the viewer from a camera settings standpoint:

- We rarely want any motion blur on the camera end (and of course there are some crazy abstract things out there like intentionally moving the camera during shooting but I'm talking basic landscape, scenic work) so our minimum shutter speed starts with what it takes to avoid any camera shake which depends a lot on whether we're purely hand holding, whether we're well braced against something solid, whether we use a support like a bean bag, tripod, monopod, table top, fence railing or something else as Eric discussed above. But unless you're going for some kind of abstract impression with intentional camera movement this decision sets the minimum and it depends in part on your hand holding skills.

- DoF and from it decisions like aperture, where to focus in the frame (e.g. hyperfocal approaches) or whether focus stacking is appropriate is another decision that impacts settings.

- With those decided then the question is whether you want to freeze everything or allow some moving objects in the scene (like flowing water, waving grasses, etc.) to intentionally blur. If you do you'll want slower shutter speeds again thinking about that top item and unwanted camera motion. You might also need something like a polarizing filter or neutral density filter to allow slower shutter speeds and still hold ISO within the camera's range.

- And with all that taken into account you'll want an ISO that works which is often base ISO when using a good support but might be slightly higher when hand holding if needed but you generally don't want to get into the upper reaches of your camera's ISO even if you sometimes might for wildlife images.

But from a simple standpoint our brains tend to capture a frozen image in time without things like motion blur (even if an actual 1/50" might have shown water blur in a waterfall or moving stream) so most of the time we want to capture a sharp image with possible artistic blur of things like streams, waves or other supporting elements of the overall scene.
 
I'm sure photographers have come up with pseudo equivalents but you can't really compare what the human eye sees in real time images to the shutter speed chosen for a single still image, for cinematic and video work there may be closer equivalents but for stills work it's sort of an apples to oranges comparison.

Both posts above are right on target and more or less how I approach the choice of settings for scenics. But in terms of what we show the viewer from a camera settings standpoint:

- We rarely want any motion blur on the camera end (and of course there are some crazy abstract things out there like intentionally moving the camera during shooting but I'm talking basic landscape, scenic work) so our minimum shutter speed starts with what it takes to avoid any camera shake which depends a lot on whether we're purely hand holding, whether we're well braced against something solid, whether we use a support like a bean bag, tripod, monopod, table top, fence railing or something else as Eric discussed above. But unless you're going for some kind of abstract impression with intentional camera movement this decision sets the minimum and it depends in part on your hand holding skills.

- DoF and from it decisions like aperture, where to focus in the frame (e.g. hyperfocal approaches) or whether focus stacking is appropriate is another decision that impacts settings.

- With those decided then the question is whether you want to freeze everything or allow some moving objects in the scene (like flowing water, waving grasses, etc.) to intentionally blur. If you do you'll want slower shutter speeds again thinking about that top item and unwanted camera motion. You might also need something like a polarizing filter or neutral density filter to allow slower shutter speeds and still hold ISO within the camera's range.

- And with all that taken into account you'll want an ISO that works which is often base ISO when using a good support but might be slightly higher when hand holding if needed but you generally don't want to get into the upper reaches of your camera's ISO even if you sometimes might for wildlife images.

But from a simple standpoint our brains tend to capture a frozen image in time without things like motion blur (even if an actual 1/50" might have shown water blur in a waterfall or moving stream) so most of the time we want to capture a sharp image with possible artistic blur of things like streams, waves or other supporting elements of the overall scene.
Thanks for the reply. The lens is a Canon EF 20-35mm f/3.5-4.5 USM. I will use it with a Canon 5Ds body. As there will be no stabilization in the lens or camera most of the time I will use a tripod. Thanks for the advice much appreciated.
 
My thought process usually starts with aperture for landscapes. For a typical landscape image, I'm starting with an aperture of f/8-f/11 depending on the lens and scene. With a wider lens, hyperfocal distance rarely requires me to go beyond f/8 or f/9 and that keeps diffraction to a minimum.

Assuming I am on a tripod, I want to be at base ISO. That means ISO 64 or ISO 100 with minimal falloff. If there is wind or motion involved, my thought process may change to keep foliage or other elements from blurring.

That leaves shutter speed as my third variable. On a tripod, I'll set shutter speed for whatever is required to get the exposure.

Handheld, I have to think about the focal length and optimum shutter speed to balance ISO and freezing motion. Again assuming a landscape and a typical focal length of 24mm or so, I'd like to keep the shutter speed a little higher and stay at 1/60 to 1/200 sec. But if necessary, I have used as slow as 1/6 second to blur water with a handheld image using in camera image stabilization on the Z7ii. I know at 1/6 second even with good technique I'll need to take more photos and account for a lot of missed or blurred shots. So if I'm dropping below 1/60 second or 2x the focal length, I'll consider raising ISO and adjusting to a wider aperture.

There are plenty of good reasons to use a long exposure and blur something in your image for creative effect. For me, that usually involves water. My typical blurred water photos start at 2 seconds and can get much longer. I often slow the exposure by photographing on an overcast day or with light rain, using a slightly higher aperture, using Lo 1.0 ISO, and using a Circular Polarizer. If this won't do the job, I add a ND filter.
Thanks for the reply. Good info.
 
The only time a long shutter speed will give an artistic effect that alters what you see in the moment is if something is moving in the scene. Typically this is done with flowing water and sometimes even longer for clouds. Of course if it is windy then leaves and flowers will also be blurred by semi-long exposures.

What shutter speed replicates what you see depends on how much is moving. If it is cloudless and there is no wind or water, then virtually any shutter speed - even several seconds - will repoduce what your eyes see in one instant. If there is no water or wind but slow moving clouds, then I think shutter speeds even as long as one second will still produce a normal looking image. If there is a waterfall (or high wind) that is when you need a fast shutter speed to match what people see - probably at least 1/30 second or faster.
Thanks for the reply. Appreciate the advice.
 
The lens I am getting is coming without a lens hood or UV filter. A couple of years ago I bought a box of bits, monopod, mirror lens, tripod, and filters. I checked in the box and found a Kenko PRO1 D Protector (W) 77mm. It looks ok. Then I had a play with the thing in the photo and found that it threads into the filter using one of the 'sizing discs'. I have several filters that slide into the thing in the photo. One of them is in the photo.
I'm guessing that the filter could be used to darken the sky. Is it worth using the filters or is it easier to do things in Lightroom Classic or Photoshop?
filter stuff 13 06 23-4585 resize.jpg
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The lens I am getting is coming without a lens hood or UV filter. A couple of years ago I bought a box of bits, monopod, mirror lens, tripod, and filters. I checked in the box and found a Kenko PRO1 D Protector (W) 77mm. It looks ok. Then I had a play with the thing in the photo and found that it threads into the filter using one of the 'sizing discs'. I have several filters that slide into the thing in the photo. One of them is in the photo.
I'm guessing that the filter could be used to darken the sky. Is it worth using the filters or is it easier to do things in Lightroom Classic or Photoshop?View attachment 63315
That looks like a graduated ND, soft probably 3 stops. Ideal when there is sky and earth and the soft version accommodates irregular horizons like hills. Theory is simple: dynamic range of most cameras (although the 5ds was stellar even in today's terms) would over expose the sky and/or underexpose the ground. A graduated ND like this allows you to have a better exposure range.
 
Thanks for the info Nimi. It's a bit of bad timing that I leave the day after the lens arrives [ least I hope it arrives on Friday ]. No time to play with the filters. I have four like the one in the photo and three that are all dark. They don't weigh much so I'll take them with me and give them a try out.
 
Since you're already on a tripod you might as well set it up to delay the exposure and lock the mirror up on a 10 second timer. Get it all super stable.
 
Hello Bill. Will do as you suggest. I checked on the internet and it says that the Canon 5Ds has the lens in its files for chromatic aberration correction so that will help.
 
Just found this on youtube

What I thought was junk in a box might turn out to be very useful.
ND grads can be very useful and for years I carried one or more in my landscape kit. In the film days they were pretty much essential for a lot of sky over darker foreground or reflection landscape images.

These days it's often just as easy when shooting landscapes from a tripod to bracket a few images to capture good exposures for the sky and foreground and then combine them as masked layers in Photoshop.

If you already have some, they can still be useful to capture a scene with bright and dark areas like a lot of sunrise reflection shots off a still pond in one image right out of the camera instead of having to mess around in PS but they're not as essential to getting the shot as they once were.
 
ND grads can be very useful and for years I carried one or more in my landscape kit. In the film days they were pretty much essential for a lot of sky over darker foreground or reflection landscape images.

These days it's often just as easy when shooting landscapes from a tripod to bracket a few images to capture good exposures for the sky and foreground and then combine them as masked layers in Photoshop.

If you already have some, they can still be useful to capture a scene with bright and dark areas like a lot of sunrise reflection shots off a still pond in one image right out of the camera instead of having to mess around in PS but they're not as essential to getting the shot as they once were.
Thanks for the post Dave. It seems HDR bracketing done in camera would be the way to go. I've never used it because I normally photograph birds. Are there any benefits to using graduated filters? Maybe if I use a graduated filter but also use HDR bracketing it would be beneficial. Anyway I have the filters so once I have the lens I can do some experimenting. I'll post the images I get when I get them. Thanks again for the help.
 
Since i mainly shoot landscapes, if i want to take a "static" image (no moving water / cloud effect), i always try to "expose to the right" for higher dynamic range (if i understood correctly) . I use aperture priority mode, so the shutter speed is calculated by the camera.

HDR layering can also easily be done in Lightroom, just FYI.
 
I have bought an old wide angle lens that I intend to use to take landscape photos. I have looked at youtube and there is a lot of advice about long shutter speeds to give 'artistic' effect. My question is 'what shutter speed gives an image that is similar to what an average person sees?' Hope this is not a dumb question.

Sorry just googled and it seems the human eye is 1/50 second, ISO 1 during the day 800 in dim light.
What eye see ... is what brain "records" .
Eye does not see the whole picture all at once, and brain fills the "holes".
Finally what eyes see is what memory recorded during some amount of time, and what's left after forgetting.

Some renaissance painter thought it fairer (more what eyes see) to paint different moments in the same picture, rather than trying to freeze a tiny portion of time.
 
Thanks for the post Dave. It seems HDR bracketing done in camera would be the way to go. I've never used it because I normally photograph birds. Are there any benefits to using graduated filters? Maybe if I use a graduated filter but also use HDR bracketing it would be beneficial. Anyway I have the filters so once I have the lens I can do some experimenting. I'll post the images I get when I get them. Thanks again for the help.
I prefer using filters to HDR for better control of the gradation. Compose the shot, pick the right filter based on the difference in brightness between sky and land, then move it inside the holder until the line is at the perfect place. Possibly because I don't know exactly how Lightroom combines the three or five shots, I don't get the pleasing results I get when I use a Grad. Also, I shoot mostly over water (ocean) at f8-11, and waves move enough to be noticeable in an HDR.
 
Are there any benefits to using graduated filters?
In many situations the results would be the same but there can be benefits of using filters rather than multi-shot combining in post. One is just simple satisfaction of nailing the shot in camera and getting a single exposure for the scene you wanted to capture. Among other things it means when you review the image in the field you can see whether you got what you're after instead of two or more shots that you have to trust will blend well in post for the final result.

On a more practical level if there's any motion in the scene that spans the dark/light boundary a single capture with a graduated ND filter can capture that in a single shot where blending two or more shots can be tough if anything in the scene moves, especially if the moving part is partially in the brighter portion and partially in the darker portion.
Maybe if I use a graduated filter but also use HDR bracketing it would be beneficial.
I don't see many situations where you'd need to use both an ND grad filter and bracket images for HDR blending in post but it's certainly possible and maybe in some crazy high dynamic range scenes that might be helpful.

The bracket and blend approach is really handy when there isn't a clean split between the darker and lighter parts of the image. So for things like architecture where you want an indoor shot that also looks out a window and the dynamic range is many stops beyond what the camera can reasonably capture a bracketing and blending approach works nicely as there isn't a simple horizon line splitting the different exposures. In landscape work that might be something like shooting sunrise or sunset through rock arches or something like that where there isn't a simple horizontal or diagonal line to split the scene by stops of exposure.

FWIW, there are basically three ways I've used over the years to deal with HDR landscape scenes like sunrise reflection shots with both sky and a reflection of sky:

- The simplest but most limited is simply to shoot a modern camera at base ISO (or whatever ISO gives you the highest dynamic range), don't over expose the highlights and simply pull up the shadows and/or make final exposure adjustments in post. If there's only a stop or two of difference in best exposure for bright and dark portions of the scene this can actually work pretty well though it wouldn't have worked well with film or early digital cameras with their much more limited dynamic range.

- Use a graduated ND filter to bring down the scene's dynamic range in the field. BTW, there are hard and soft versions of ND Grads and you may have one or more of each. The difference is how sharp the transition from light to dark is. Some scenes have a very sharp transition from light to dark and others make that transition more gradually so hard and soft versions of ND Grads can help to avoid a very obvious transition line in scenes where the natural transition isn't on a hard boundary. They also come in different strengths like 1 stop, 2 stops and 3 stops. I usually used 2 or 3 stop filters in hard or soft transitions depending on the scene and the lighting.

- Bracket multiple images and combine in post. This is perhaps the most flexible but works best if you capture exactly the same scene in each shot so hopefully no, or very little movement of anything in the scene from shot to shot and with a camera mounted securely so the scene lines up well from shot to shot though you can sometimes hand hold these if you're careful and don't mind doing a bit of image alignment and potentially cropping in post to make sure you're only combining parts that line up well. Shooting these from a tripod or other solid support makes the process much easier.

And sure in some cases you could combine methods though usually one of those will work for most stuff.
 
For me the lens that provides the same apparent perspective and field of view as we see with the naked eye is the 100mm focal length. Photos taken with the 50mm lens are often weak with too much extraneous elements in the scene. Shorter than "normal" focal lengths results in significant perspective distortion with reduced size of elements in the middle ground and background (turning mountains into mole hills).

The use of one to 10 second or longer exposures creates a more impressionistic image and this applies to meadows as well as beach scenes. It also allows for using much smaller apertures to maximize the depth of field.

A book that changed my own approach is Magic Light and the Dynamic Landscape by Jeanine Leech. She uses very long shutter speeds to greatly enhance her images. I also recommend the book Creative Nature & Outdoor Photography by Brenda Tharp which also advocates the use of small apertures for maximum depth of field with landscape photography.
 
Since i mainly shoot landscapes, if i want to take a "static" image (no moving water / cloud effect), i always try to "expose to the right" for higher dynamic range (if i understood correctly) . I use aperture priority mode, so the shutter speed is calculated by the camera.

HDR layering can also easily be done in Lightroom, just FYI.
Thanks for the info Dom.
 
I prefer using filters to HDR for better control of the gradation. Compose the shot, pick the right filter based on the difference in brightness between sky and land, then move it inside the holder until the line is at the perfect place. Possibly because I don't know exactly how Lightroom combines the three or five shots, I don't get the pleasing results I get when I use a Grad. Also, I shoot mostly over water (ocean) at f8-11, and waves move enough to be noticeable in an HDR.
Thanks Nimi. I guess the big difference now is that the result of using filters can be seen immediately on the screen of the camera. Unless the combining of images 'in camera' is done the process of using tech to combine images is going back to the problems of film. It is necessary to wait till later to see the result.
 
In many situations the results would be the same but there can be benefits of using filters rather than multi-shot combining in post. One is just simple satisfaction of nailing the shot in camera and getting a single exposure for the scene you wanted to capture. Among other things it means when you review the image in the field you can see whether you got what you're after instead of two or more shots that you have to trust will blend well in post for the final result.

On a more practical level if there's any motion in the scene that spans the dark/light boundary a single capture with a graduated ND filter can capture that in a single shot where blending two or more shots can be tough if anything in the scene moves, especially if the moving part is partially in the brighter portion and partially in the darker portion.

I don't see many situations where you'd need to use both an ND grad filter and bracket images for HDR blending in post but it's certainly possible and maybe in some crazy high dynamic range scenes that might be helpful.

The bracket and blend approach is really handy when there isn't a clean split between the darker and lighter parts of the image. So for things like architecture where you want an indoor shot that also looks out a window and the dynamic range is many stops beyond what the camera can reasonably capture a bracketing and blending approach works nicely as there isn't a simple horizon line splitting the different exposures. In landscape work that might be something like shooting sunrise or sunset through rock arches or something like that where there isn't a simple horizontal or diagonal line to split the scene by stops of exposure.

FWIW, there are basically three ways I've used over the years to deal with HDR landscape scenes like sunrise reflection shots with both sky and a reflection of sky:

- The simplest but most limited is simply to shoot a modern camera at base ISO (or whatever ISO gives you the highest dynamic range), don't over expose the highlights and simply pull up the shadows and/or make final exposure adjustments in post. If there's only a stop or two of difference in best exposure for bright and dark portions of the scene this can actually work pretty well though it wouldn't have worked well with film or early digital cameras with their much more limited dynamic range.

- Use a graduated ND filter to bring down the scene's dynamic range in the field. BTW, there are hard and soft versions of ND Grads and you may have one or more of each. The difference is how sharp the transition from light to dark is. Some scenes have a very sharp transition from light to dark and others make that transition more gradually so hard and soft versions of ND Grads can help to avoid a very obvious transition line in scenes where the natural transition isn't on a hard boundary. They also come in different strengths like 1 stop, 2 stops and 3 stops. I usually used 2 or 3 stop filters in hard or soft transitions depending on the scene and the lighting.

- Bracket multiple images and combine in post. This is perhaps the most flexible but works best if you capture exactly the same scene in each shot so hopefully no, or very little movement of anything in the scene from shot to shot and with a camera mounted securely so the scene lines up well from shot to shot though you can sometimes hand hold these if you're careful and don't mind doing a bit of image alignment and potentially cropping in post to make sure you're only combining parts that line up well. Shooting these from a tripod or other solid support makes the process much easier.

And sure in some cases you could combine methods though usually one of those will work for most stuff.
Thanks Dave. Appreciate you taking the time to explain and pass on knowledge and experience. I talked to the people in Brisbane yesterday and they were still waiting for the lens to come from Sydney. If the timing gets too tight they said they would send to Nos. daughter's place in Darwin. Either way I should be able to try things out in Darwin.
For me the lens that provides the same apparent perspective and field of view as we see with the naked eye is the 100mm focal length. Photos taken with the 50mm lens are often weak with too much extraneous elements in the scene. Shorter than "normal" focal lengths results in significant perspective distortion with reduced size of elements in the middle ground and background (turning mountains into mole hills).

The use of one to 10 second or longer exposures creates a more impressionistic image and this applies to meadows as well as beach scenes. It also allows for using much smaller apertures to maximize the depth of field.

A book that changed my own approach is Magic Light and the Dynamic Landscape by Jeanine Leech. She uses very long shutter speeds to greatly enhance her images. I also recommend the book Creative Nature & Outdoor Photography by Brenda Tharp which also advocates the use of small apertures for maximum depth of field with landscape photography.
Thanks Calson. Interesting take on things. I'll check out the people you suggest.
 
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