Low light performance options

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Thanks for the feed back, interesting, the 14-24 has its place it seems, may I ask what filters do you use for it.
Why the D850 over the D5 for the 500 PF ?
I recently got the 70-200 FL Just Breathtaking.........hand held at 1/10th of second F2.8 tack sharp
That's the end of my questions LOL
I have the Nisi system for the 14-24. I use the polarizer, 6 stop and occasionally, the 10 stop. The first 2 are my go to for water falls and 10 stop when I want smooth water in big bodies of water. If I lived closer to the ocean, I would be using this lens more. I love the perspective it gives but needs that strong foreground. I used it for Northern Lights when I had that opportunity a few years back. I keep thinking I will get out more to do night sky...but I am still working (to fund my obsessions) and just don't do well without sleep anymore. I am kind of kicking myself I didn't use it more in the UP this fall.

I was very surprised at the D850 over the D5 with the 500 PF. I always fine tune my lens on a tripod and it was unmistakable the differences. I just don't know why the D850 seemed to render more detail. It also beats out the D500 that everyone loves with the 500 PF. Maybe those 2 are soulmates....??? Making stuff up now.

I have seriously considered selling the 70-200 f4 for the f2.8 FL version. I use it with a TC when I need a mid range zoom with BIF or mammals. Lately I have become disenchanted with the IQ on the f4. When I travel, it is a stretch to get everything into my already large camera bag...to say nothing of the weight. And at 64, I'm not gettin any younger. Ugh. Yoga and hiking 6 days a week so I can but for how much longer. Older people problems.

Primes just ruin everything where budget is concerned. The more you know, the more discerning you become. I wonder if anyone has ever done a real cost when moving to primes...because it causes an upgrade in every other part of the kit....just sayin.
 
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I have the Nisi system for the 14-24. I use the polarizer, 6 stop and occasionally, the 10 stop. The first 2 are my go to for water falls and 10 stop when I want smooth water in big bodies of water. If I lived closer to the ocean, I would be using this lens more. I love the perspective it gives but needs that strong foreground. I used it for Northern Lights when I had that opportunity a few years back. I keep thinking I will get out more to do night sky...but I am still working (to fund my obsessions) and just don't do well without sleep anymore. I am kind of kicking myself I didn't use it more in the UP this fall.
I appreciate your feed back, based on the diverse results of your images deserves respect, you certainly have the eye for composition and I see the passion and effort you put in.
I found getting so many different lenses and cameras and changing all the time just had to stop, it was all wrong, $ wise, depreciation, obsolescence, weight, to many choices, all brought on an Epiphany moment, I was loosing focus on photography, I needed to stop, look at the archives, see what I do go back to basics, this was helped due to a couple of friends who had old cameras D2X D3X and 3 lenses (24-70 80-200D, 150-500 Sigma) that did everything they needed and was blowing away people with all the high end gear and a room full of exotic lenses. I sold the D4s D5, bought 2 D850 bodies.
I now only have, 16mm fish eye 2.8 (amazing used well, it was designed for astronomy but just dose amazing landscapes and street photography) 14-24, 24-70, Insanely good 70-200 FL now the work horse, 200-500. I still have my 300 2.8 VR II presently sadly gathering dust as the 70-200 FL is becoming more my go to lens for the mid range 50mm to 300mm easily covered on the D850 one step back or one step forward, old school that works LOL.

I sold the 600 f4, to big heavy and represented 5% of my images.
I found going out to a shoot I constantly umed and ared about which lens and it became a pain so I took more than I needed all the time, Now I just grab 2 lenses 14-24, 70-200 done, one body and go. I walked around Cradle mountain in Tasmania nothing like what you have of course, I was more than happy with the 14-24 and a lightweight tripod, it just made me stop and think of composition rather than whic les now, I use the Schneider CinemaScope glass filters 4mm thick heavy but brilliant, I inherited the filters then added some, I need only half the filters as they do both GND and ND as the glass is that big, I mean I had these 15 years ago when glass wasn't even thought of main stream and everyone was using resin filters. I find polarizers don't like the range under 24mm unless things have changed.


I was very surprised at the D850 over the D5 with the 500 PF. I always fine tune my lens on a tripod and it was unmistakable the differences. I just don't know why the D850 seemed to render more detail. It also beats out the D500 that everyone loves with the 500 PF. Maybe those 2 are soulmates....??? Making stuff up now.
Agree, I see so many people end up going back to the D850.

I have seriously considered selling the 70-200 f4 for the f2.8 FL version. Defiantly a great move, I find TCs dont do it for me that much, though on the FL it certainly would be better than the F4. I just found with the FL I need less iso and shutter speeds, it certainly gathers light well and is very sharp. Awesome colour and is a genuine 70-200mm as it has no focus breathing.
I use it with a TC when I need a mid range zoom with BIF or mammals. Lately I have become disenchanted with the IQ on the f4. When I travel, it is a stretch to get everything into my already large camera bag...to say nothing of the weight. And at 64, I'm not gettin any younger. Ugh. Yoga and hiking 6 days a week so I can but for how much longer. Older people problems. I am a whisker older than you, I have put on a few pounds to much weight and it is really notably effecting what I do, my girlfriend says I have been in a good paddock a little to long this season, so 2021 has seen me embark on a diet, I am very strong in will power...…...my girlfriend is a Yoga Guru so to speak, she is fit and strong and not into photography, but supports everything I do as she loves traveling in our bus, bush walks and is a beach bunny at heart, we are very much beach water people given where we live.

Primes just ruin everything where budget is concerned. The more you know, the more discerning you become. I wonder if anyone has ever done a real cost when moving to primes...because it causes an upgrade in every other part of the kit....just sayin. How do you mean upgrade everything else ?
I find we lease a car for $30,000 why not gear if its your passion and hobby, at least you have good resale, the issue is will you take better photos or simply take a trip on a merry-go-round, hiring some for a week may make the decision easier for those contemplating. I set up a business name initially and wrote things of in Tax saving around 30%, to me the cost of photography is in the cost of the trips and in time, then what do we do with the images we take. Only a thought. On a computer of forum will the images be that much better, I see lots of people with the biggest lenses and greatest cameras and sadly technically they are great but really are in cases poor compositionally.
I have always felt No amount of money can ever buy good composition, composition and powerful story telling evoking emotion in the viewer is more powerful than any piece of gear, or any amount of detail and sharpness. The old formula LOL 20% gear 80% photographer
Great Chatting, Keep well and safe,

I thought 2020 would give me everything I wanted,
2020 now makes me appreciate everything I have.

OZ down under

See in yellow kindest regards
 
This post makes me ask myself the question, how did we ever get keepers with film when the fast stuff was ISO 400.

Agreed exactly, I sometimes take a 50mm lens switch everything into manual and do some street photography, refreshing......todays cameras are mostly targeted on mainstream consumers, for us serious enthusiasts we only have composition left as a skill set, everything is gone auto on auto and 50 preset variations of auto LOL

Oz Down Under
 
What might 2021 bring?
A D880 with live view chops like the D780?
A Z8 pro mirrorless? (Too late for me.)
Thom Hogan has some interesting speculation on these. And observes that now 45 mp sensors have light performance as good as 20 or 24 mp.
 
Agreed exactly, I sometimes take a 50mm lens switch everything into manual and do some street photography, refreshing......todays cameras are mostly targeted on mainstream consumers, for us serious enthusiasts we only have composition left as a skill set, everything is gone auto on auto and 50 preset variations of auto LOL

Oz Down Under
This post makes me ask myself the question, how did we ever get keepers with film when the fast stuff was ISO 400.
So let's put that in another context... how are we all not dead with only having drum brakes on cars. I've often considered jumping on the older car band wagon and picking up an old fiat 500, MG, HG ute etc. but, I'll take my M4 with it's phenomenal brakes and modern standards as my regular vehicle every day.

As with everything, technology allows you to do more than the previous, explore the fringes, and from a photography POV capture an image in environments when previously you may have not bothered due to conditions. Expectation also increases with that technology, your keepers now may be vastly different from previous generations... or, very different regards those environments and camera settings used for the same level of keepers.
 
Yes, we should take care of our photography friends by advising them never to try a good prime.
You can't go back to two-buck-chuck after appreciating a premier cru.

LOL, AGREED, my girlfriend said "after you taste steak its hard to go back to mince So behave your self" LOL.
I mean I love the 70-200 FL but have also had with the D4s hammer down pumping and even on a D7100 some cracker images using only a 28-300 hand held, why because the subject and composition overruled that need for eye bleeding sharpness, Technique and capitalising on that unique moment of lighting was the trick, Steve is a master in teaching brilliant technique in focusing exposure etc, so yes be carefull what you wish for its hard to go back and expensive to keep going forward. LOL.
 
What might 2021 bring?
A D880 with live view chops like the D780?
A Z8 pro mirrorless? (Too late for me.)
Thom Hogan has some interesting speculation on these. And observes that now 45 mp sensors have light performance as good as 20 or 24 mp.
I think that's why the D850 is so good with its back light sensor, this technology will move the 20mp pro cameras into 40 to 60mp at blistering speeds and outrageous iso raising the bar even firther, 2021 is not the year for capitalisation of gear rather decapitalisation wait and see if you can..
 
Yes.
Though the 61 mp Sony A7R IV sensor loses any resolution advantage over the 42 mp R III to noise over 400 ISO.


I have mentioned before and only an overthinking opinion unqualified, this ancient 35mm full frame needs to move on and break into (MF) medium format cropped sensor category like 40mp MF, Nikon has the jump on the others with its large lens mount that could really if they want just slip in a larger sensor, it would reduce massively the pixel density currently being an issue at 60mp with current technology, you would have massive iso performance rivaling by far anything in 35mm pro ranges, you would have millions in additional colours.
It also allows much larger pixel pitch models to come out with insane GENUINE night shooting capabilities never seen before, I mean its insane to stay 35mm, not with smart phones eating you alive on a large scale with tech savvy innovative methods feeding the masses.
Now Canon is releasing they say 100mp in 35mm ? a total contradiction, how will this work.
Nikon has a patient on a new generation of sensor material that makes what we have today so obsolete, I mean where dose it stop...…yes Nikon makes the machines for Sony that makes the sensors Pew round and round we go, is the industry really all one camera company with three names LOL.
So let go of all this and go back top basics,
Time light and speed in the right combination is all we need to record a subject - story - moment well composed that evokes emotion in the viewer and tells a story.

Off again, If had to start of January 2021 with my first camera I would go for the Canon 1dXmkIII and glass to match, as well as the 45mp 12fps/20fps. But then I ask my self why am I happy to compromise technically all this performance bells an d whistles for the image quality of the Nikon files that is so good, do I want high tech gear of simply accurate brilliant natural dynamic colours and or the latest for runner in tech savvy gear.
As steve says 20% gear 80% you LOL.
I mean what is photography all about. A fair question, in need of an fair answer. I am a photographer or a documenter recorder of scenes.
Am I doing the same thing over and over, do I need a year out and rest...........some interesting thoughts cross the mind, have I found my style as a photographer if I can even call myself one.
2021 is the year for reflection in more ways than one. a song writer often stops, pauses and goes back to the grass roots for fresh inspiration.

Rambling on ...........OZ from down under.
 
I have the Nisi system for the 14-24. I use the polarizer, 6 stop and occasionally, the 10 stop. The first 2 are my go to for water falls and 10 stop when I want smooth water in big bodies of water. If I lived closer to the ocean, I would be using this lens more. I love the perspective it gives but needs that strong foreground. I used it for Northern Lights when I had that opportunity a few years back. I keep thinking I will get out more to do night sky...but I am still working (to fund my obsessions) and just don't do well without sleep anymore. I am kind of kicking myself I didn't use it more in the UP this fall.

I was very surprised at the D850 over the D5 with the 500 PF. I always fine tune my lens on a tripod and it was unmistakable the differences. I just don't know why the D850 seemed to render more detail. It also beats out the D500 that everyone loves with the 500 PF. Maybe those 2 are soulmates....??? Making stuff up now.

I have seriously considered selling the 70-200 f4 for the f2.8 FL version. I use it with a TC when I need a mid range zoom with BIF or mammals. Lately I have become disenchanted with the IQ on the f4. When I travel, it is a stretch to get everything into my already large camera bag...to say nothing of the weight. And at 64, I'm not gettin any younger. Ugh. Yoga and hiking 6 days a week so I can but for how much longer. Older people problems.

Primes just ruin everything where budget is concerned. The more you know, the more discerning you become. I wonder if anyone has ever done a real cost when moving to primes...because it causes an upgrade in every other part of the kit....just sayin.
Your photos are really amazing, seeing your website - the only thing I need now is time and years of practice to get close to similar quality....
 
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The best low light body I've ever used was the Nikon D4. It is an amazing camera. I shot ISO at 25,600 and rarely needed noise reduction. If I did, it was minimal. Must less expensive than a D5. I had one of those too, but liked the D4 better.
 
Your photos are really amazing, seeing your website - the only thing I need now is time and years of practice to get close to similar quality....

Thank you kindly. I thought your galaxy images were magnificent. The effort to set something up like this beyond me. It looks to me like this is your passion so stick with it!

And while my hubby used to like to hike but doesn't anymore and I wouldn't take him on a photo hike as I do them these days. He has patience for maybe 2 or 3 compositions. Getting up at 4 AM to be in the right place for good light just isn't going to happen either. It does take time and effort to work a good opportunity. We get together for a brunch when the light gets bad and that has worked for us.
 
See in yellow kindest regards
.because it causes an upgrade in every other part of the kit....just sayin. How do you mean upgrade everything else ?
I find we lease a car for $30,000 why not gear if its your passion and hobby, at least you have good resale, the issue is will you take better photos or simply take a trip on a merry-go-round, hiring some for a week may make the decision easier for those contemplating. I set up a business name initially and wrote things of in Tax saving around 30%, to me the cost of photography is in the cost of the trips and in time, then what do we do with the images we take.

Let's see...the sidekick had to be replaced with a gimbal head when the 600mm came along. A beefier tripod I wouldn't lug around for landscape joined the pile. Then there is the bean bag for the window and the skimmer with a riser for scooting along in the sand. A dedicated bag for same and then the larger bag that would hold everything if I fly some where. A pelican case when I can't carry it all for that once in a life time trip somewhere exotic. A photography vest so I can make weight on one of those midget bush planes. Bags to plop it into coming in from the cold, rain and protective gear.....I am sure I have forgotten something else.....LOL!

Obviously I completely agree about the passion for all of this....it is my retirement years and what I have decided is most important to me to say I have lived a good life when the curtains begin to fall. I trailed along with my dad to go hunting and fishing as a kid - apparently inherited his seeking gene only I seek with a camera. Each of those images holds the keys to my memories of good times with friends along with the unending peace and joy I find being in nature. As for a tax write off....my financial planner gives me the harry eyeball and threatens to fire us when I mention this as a business opportunity. He just isn't any fun sometimes and apparently, he hates audits after being through a few of them with other photography clients. Oh well. It's only money. It will go away.
 
Love it,

When I do the WSL surfing comps, we have thousands of people on the beach, hundreds of photographers in front prime positions, D5 on 600F4 plus 1.4 convertor, 1DXMk III on 600mm F4 1.4 convertor, they take their place of pride and stay put an use the gear to reach the riders, they are Pros it seems big gear is impressive and envied, others, real enthusiasts are there with the 150-600 and DX bodies with a second body FF and a 70-200 F4 plus 1.4 convertor or 100 to 400 F5.6....a back pack with all sorts of other stuff rain coats, caps with the peak on the front and all their gear being used is un protected in full ocean salt spray or mist they cant see!
Myself, I ware board short swimmers, flip flops a huge sombrero that when I lean over the camera it covers half the gear LOL, I do have an Aquatec rain coat on the gear at all times near the ocean, I wear a swimmers rashi as we call it (Surfing T Shirt) I mean you get wet when you go to the beach so why worry if it rains, LOL.
I use a mono pod, D850 with grip for battery longevity, 300 2.8 VR II with a 1.4 convertor on challenging days cloud or weather wise, or on known brighter sunny days I only take the amazing 200-500 happily, so its me bare with one camera and lens full of agility, I set my camera in manual and DEFAULT settings 4000 ss, -07ev, F7.1 float the iso to 3200 and don't touch the settings for 8 to12 days of shooting from 7 am to 5 pm each day no matter what, but here is the kicker, Unlike the Pros etc with all that gear anchored, I run or move up and down the length of the beach, first to angle off (45 degrees) the direct sunrise light, secondly to keep the subject distance as close as possible at all times on the action as it dose move up and down the beach somewhat, also I find unique vantage points like on a rock wall or point that gets me 50 meters closer, all to get the light angle right or different angle of view, even into the sunset golden hour when 90% of the shooters have pulled the pin around 5pm, I am still pumping.
All this is as a result of years doing this and leaning things out and focusing on technique.
Bottom Line I get no haze by NOT going 600 ml plus 1.4, others do and complain. I get shots that are different to everybody else, I am the coyote so to speak always moving hungry for the edge that makes it different.

When some of the shooters I know well see what I have, they ask when did you get that wow that's clear gee that's sharp....oh its the D850 high res camera LOL, yes its brilliant and helps 45mp versus 20mp, they are using gear over 600mm to get to the action from a static position, I am using my legs and brighter class mostly with crop ability to boot on 45mp, they are nearly half as far away as I am relying on their super long gear, I travel light with less and get close, I also search for the right angle for best light direction, that light gives me better sharpness and better focusing, I would rather take less shots but better composition and image quality every time, they pump 16 fps for 10 to 15 seconds, I take 2 no more than 3 frames at the right time, I only shoot Jpeg Fine.

I have learnt to take less images with less gear and accessories, be smarter and work less, it has paid off in spades, in fun, better images, more satisfaction, better results overall. Hence I have sold of 2/3rds of all my gear Including the 600 F4, enjoying it more and getting better results, I am happier. Less gear and get closer.

OZ Down Under
 
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Love it,
I have learnt to take less images with less gear and accessories, be smarter and work less, it has paid off in spades, in fun, better images, more satisfaction, better results overall. Hence I have sold of 2/3rds of all my gear Including the 600 F4, enjoying it more and getting better results, I am happier. Less gear and get closer.

OZ Down Under

Well, dang. There is always a way to work smarter rather than harder. Good for you! Getting closer and being agile are important for birders...the 500mm PF has really served in this capacity for us.
 
Well, dang. There is always a way to work smarter rather than harder. Good for you! Getting closer and being agile are important for birders...the 500mm PF has really served in this capacity for us.

Agree, The 500 PF (only borrowed one for a week) is so awesome being so small and light, I loved it for that, I found the 200-500 in surfing applications wasn't a lot of difference in IQ, I guess because the light is so bright, but defiantly lighter and snappier.
Light and agile, I even do this for all sports action...…….. rodeos, athletics, foot ball, swimming, surfing.
Same for sunrise sunsets One lens one filter.
Its a bit like going out with a 50mm lens and doing street photography the old way, it challenges me more and while I miss certain opertuinaties (that's collateral damage), the shots I do get are so different to what I would have got because I think more and I venture more.

Land scapes .........I have over the last year been using more and more my 16mm fisheye 2.8, WOW....180 degree angle of view, so creative. It is so sharp and for Astro which it was purposely designed for, its just amazing. It also fits into my T Shirt pocket LOL, I go trekking sometimes, 70-200 fl, and 16mm fish eye, I carry a very small fitter in my other shirt pocket with 2 rubber bands, this is how they did it in the old days LOL.

Keep well OZ down Under
 
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