Lowlight Sensor vs ISO

If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).

AstroEd

Well-known member
Supporting Member
Marketplace
I am confused by lowlight performance as in more detail in lower light conditions from camera to camera or sensor to sensor

My Nikon D-500 can get to ISO 50-1,640,000 (Boosted) according to the DPReview, while the Nikon Z8/9 is ISO 32-102,400 and is said to have better low light performance. I thought the higher the ISO setting the better photo in lower light condition, And I confused? It sound like the D-500 would be better.. OR is it the sensor design of the newer cameras that make it better in lowlight. If I read correctly the D-500 and the Z-9 with the same settings in the same light conditions the Z-9 will have less noise and crisper images.
 
I am confused by lowlight performance as in more detail in lower light conditions from camera to camera or sensor to sensor

My Nikon D-500 can get to ISO 50-1,640,000 (Boosted) according to the DPReview, while the Nikon Z8/9 is ISO 32-102,400 and is said to have better low light performance. I thought the higher the ISO setting the better photo in lower light condition, And I confused? It sound like the D-500 would be better.. OR is it the sensor design of the newer cameras that make it better in lowlight. If I read correctly the D-500 and the Z-9 with the same settings in the same light conditions the Z-9 will have less noise and crisper images.
Some things to unpack in your post.

The available high ISO limit itself, much less any extended high ISO settings doesn't really determine the quality of images in low light conditions. The noise performance and dynamic range of the sensor/camera at specific ISO settings is far more important than the limit the manufacturer might have included. IOW, the manufacturer might include a ridiculous high ISO or extended high ISO setting that looks great in their marketing material but images shot at that limit are so noisy that folks just don't use those highest settings. Basically don't use the limiting high ISO setting you can dial in to compare low light performance of two different cameras.

For cameras of similar vintage a full frame camera assuming you can sufficiently fill the frame with your subject (IOW, not relying on deep crops) will always out perform a crop sensor camera or cropping the full frame image in post from a noise and dynamic range perspective once the output images are sized to the same output size for digital display or printing. So if you can fill the frame on a Z8/Z9/Z6 I, II or III or something like a D850, D5, D6, etc. which are full frame cameras you'll have better low light performance than filling the frame on a D500, D7200 or similar crop body camera. From that standpoint alone, comparing the highest ISO setting on the D500 (640,000 boosted) vs the 102,400 on the full frame camera isn't a great comparison as it doesn't really capture the issue.

Yes, if you can sufficiently fill the frame and not have to deeply crop the Z8/Z9 image it will have lower noise and better low light performance than the D500 shot in the same light but of course with wildlife it's often easier to fill the smaller sensor of the crop body D500 so if you end up cropping the Z8/Z9 image to D500 dimensions the advantage disappears once the two images are compared at the same output size. For wildlife work that usually means using longer focal length lenses or learning to get closer when shooting full frame cameras vs crop body cameras to fill the larger FX sensor.

One of the easiest ways to see how different cameras perform in low light conditions is to compare their respective Dynamic Ranges at corresponding ISO settings over at PhotonstoPhotos. These charts normalize for output size (compare final images sized to the same output dimensions for screen display or printing) and the key is to understand that Dynamic Range (DR) in these charts is measuring from the brightest white tones you can capture without blowing out the image to a defined noise floor or acceptable amount of shadow noise. So when the numbers get lower on these curves that means shadow noise is more visible and when it gets too visible (the curves fall to low numbers as in 3 or 4 stops of DR) the image will look quite noisy in the darker regions.

Here's an example of a Z8 in full frame and DX crop mode vs the D500 to show how they compare in terms of DR and from it low light performance:

Screenshot 2024-10-15 at 4.03.27 PM.png


What this chart shows is the Z8 in full frame shooting has the highest DR and the lowest level of noise in the dark parts of the image for a given high ISO setting. At low ISO settings the Z8 and D500 are almost identical and that jump in the Z8 lines is what comes from a Dual Gain camera design. The D500 comes in a bit lower across the range of high ISO settings and a Z8 in DX crop mode comes in a bit lower yet so a bit more noise in the darker parts of the image or a bit more than a stop more shadow noise than the full frame Z8.

The way the Z8 becomes noisier in crop mode vs full frame mode is why it's important to sufficiently fill the frame and not rely on deep crops if you want to get the most out of the camera's low light performance.
 
A lot of my current images on my D-500 are cropped due to not being able to get closer to my subjects as they tend to be in the middle or far bank I image at, does this mean a Full frame camera such as a Nikon Z9 imaging the same subject will look worse or noisier if I have to crop since it is not a cropped sensor?
 
A lot of my current images on my D-500 are cropped due to not being able to get closer to my subjects as they tend to be in the middle or far bank I image at, does this mean a Full frame camera such as a Nikon Z9 imaging the same subject will look worse or noisier if I have to crop since it is not a cropped sensor?
If you currently have to crop D500 images then assuming you're shooting the same lens and from the same distance with a full frame camera then you'll have to do even more cropping to get the same final subject size when shooting a full frame camera. That deeper cropping with the full frame camera further degrades the noise performance. IOW, as you can see in the chart above the D500 is a bit better in terms of high ISO noise performance than the Z8/Z9 in DX crop mode. If you crop the Z8/Z9 image even further to get the image size you're after that noise performance will continue to degrade.

Basically if you're already cropping your D500 images then I wouldn't recommend going to a full frame camera from a noise and low light standpoint. If you do other types of photography where you don't need to crop then sure the full frame can be great but from a pure wildlife and noise performance standpoint you're already doing better with your D500 than you will with a Z8 or Z9 in DX crop mode. Yes, the Z8 and Z9 provide many other features but from a pure low light standpoint that won't get you ahead if you have to do deep crops with the full frame camera.

Is a lens upgrade to either capture more light (e.g. f/4 wide open lens vs an f/5.6 wide open lens) or for longer focal length (e.g. 600mm vs 500mm) an option for you? Gathering more light will help your low light noise issues and additional focal length will reduce the amount you have to crop and help as well. If you're already shooting something like a 600mm f/4 or 800mm f/5.6 then that might not be an option. But if you're shooting something like a 500mm f/5.6 PF or shorter focal length lens then perhaps a longer focal length and faster f/4 lens would help a lot but it typically means moving to more tripod assisted photography which a lot of folks dislike these days.

FWIW, I do a lot of my casual walk around or hiking wildlife photography with a Z8 and 500mm PF. It's a great setup for fun days out where photography might not be my main goal. But when I'm out with wildlife photography as my main goal I'll always reach for the 600mm f/4 and typically a big tripod or sometimes a monopod when I want more mobility. But the low light performance of that setup in addition to the longer focal length and better ability to control backgrounds is worth the extra weight and hassle of a tripod or monopod. Sure the lightweight hand held rig is tons of fun but the big rig is hard to beat for image quality when light levels drop.
 
Back
Top