Make ISO 12,800 Look Like ISO 400: Lightroom Denoise Master Class

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Steve

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A Master Class On Lightroom Denoise!
This video is a master class on Lightroom Denoise! If you want to see my techniques for making ISO 12,800 look like ISO 400, you're gonna love this! It's the BEST way to fix a noisy photo!

In fact, I think the advanced techniques at the end of the video allow you to make your images look better than any third-party app - just using Lightroom!

In this video, we'll take a really deep dive, and I'll show you everything you need to know to get the most from Lightroom Denoise. We'll talk about the kinds of images that work best, how the Donoise tool works, and some advanced techniques beyond just the simple Denoise dialog.

In fact, in my experience, the advanced techniques featured towards the end of this video preserve detail better than any third-party software I've tried while giving you the best possible noise reduction.

It's the best 45 minutes you'll spend on post processing!

 
Definitely learned something with the additional steps with the masking after the denoise. Wouldn't have thought of texture in a million years.

Though my first reaction for that additional mask was to want to mask those body feathers separately rather than add them to the background mask. Would that have given more control? (I guess I thought the effect was too strong on the body feathers).
 
Many thanks @Steve can't believe this is a free video. I would certainly be interested in a full image processing course from you.

I like the fact that Lightroom and DxO denoise work on the pixels before demosaicing takes place so any noise is not spread to other pixels. I find DxO does not preserve the picture profiles, I have a ticket open with DxO that they have not yet resolved. So I am thinking Lightroom's new denoise is going to be the best solution currently available.
 
A Master Class On Lightroom Denoise!
This video is a master class on Lightroom Denoise! If you want to see my techniques for making ISO 12,800 look like ISO 400, you're gonna love this! It's the BEST way to fix a noisy photo!

In fact, I think the advanced techniques at the end of the video allow you to make your images look better than any third-party app - just using Lightroom!

In this video, we'll take a really deep dive, and I'll show you everything you need to know to get the most from Lightroom Denoise. We'll talk about the kinds of images that work best, how the Donoise tool works, and some advanced techniques beyond just the simple Denoise dialog.

In fact, in my experience, the advanced techniques featured towards the end of this video preserve detail better than any third-party software I've tried while giving you the best possible noise reduction.

It's the best 45 minutes you'll spend on post processing!

Hi Steve,
Thanks for posting your highly informative video.
Happy trails.
 
Many thanks @Steve can't believe this is a free video. I would certainly be interested in a full image processing course from you.

I like the fact that Lightroom and DxO denoise work on the pixels before demosaicing takes place so any noise is not spread to other pixels. I find DxO does not preserve the picture profiles, I have a ticket open with DxO that they have not yet resolved. So I am thinking Lightroom's new denoise is going to be the best solution currently available.

You should start a new topic to discuss, but briefly I will mention that If you choose to output dxo as noise and lens only it will still give you control over the profile in lightroom. Also you can import your lightroom profiles into dxo.
 
You should start a new topic to discuss, but briefly I will mention that If you choose to output dxo as noise and lens only it will still give you control over the profile in lightroom. Also you can import your lightroom profiles into dxo.
DxO are working on my ticket it has gone to the developers. There are workarounds but I don't have time to fix it that way so happy to just use Lightroom.
 
I plan to watch this as soon as I have a free 45min.
I switched off of Topaz and DXO and have only been using LR Denoise for awhile now. However, I admit I'm super lazy with it and 90% of the time I just leave it on default 50, don't even look at the preview and just click process and then try not to scrutinize the results when it is done.
I'll be interested to see what other ways you are tweaking the process for better results.
 
Great video @Steve ! Thank you so much! You mentioned at one point in the video about being careful while sharpening because of Output sharpening. Do you have a video or can you explain that a little further?
Thanks!
 
Well presented!. This shows an organized approach to get what you want. I have tended to bounce around and have used many of these tools, but not in a thoughtful and organized manner. I was more in the spray and pray mode, so thank you for this video!!!
 
Definitely learned something with the additional steps with the masking after the denoise. Wouldn't have thought of texture in a million years.

Though my first reaction for that additional mask was to want to mask those body feathers separately rather than add them to the background mask. Would that have given more control? (I guess I thought the effect was too strong on the body feathers).
Yes, you could or you could just drop the opacity of the brush when you painted them.
 
Thank you Steve! Great video, and I really appreciate it. Looking forward to trying out the techniques, for both reprocessing some old photos, and applying the learning to new ones.
 
Great video @Steve ! Thank you so much! You mentioned at one point in the video about being careful while sharpening because of Output sharpening. Do you have a video or can you explain that a little further?
Thanks!
I don't think I have a video anywhere that covers all output sharpening, but in short the output sharpening you use varies by what you're using the file for.

For example, when printing, you typically want the image on your screen to look a little over-sharpened, where for screen output you wouldn't want to do that. Magazine also tend want unsharpened images so they can add the amount that works well for them. It really varies, but if you start with something that's overly sharpened and then reduce it for screen output, it might look way too sharp and crunchy. It's always better to be in a position where you're adding sharpness as needed and not trying to take it away :)
 
I don't think I have a video anywhere that covers all output sharpening, but in short the output sharpening you use varies by what you're using the file for.

For example, when printing, you typically want the image on your screen to look a little over-sharpened, where for screen output you wouldn't want to do that. Magazine also tend want unsharpened images so they can add the amount that works well for them. It really varies, but if you start with something that's overly sharpened and then reduce it for screen output, it might look way too sharp and crunchy. It's always better to be in a position where you're adding sharpness as needed and not trying to take it away :)
Gotcha! Thanks! The video really is incredible. I have been a big DXO fan for noise reduction and their lens modules for a couple of years now. I just re-edited a high ISO shot using only Lightroom and your techniques and am just blown away with how much more 'realistic' the same photo now looks! Especially the tips on masking and denoising the background separately. Thanks so much, again!
 
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Great video Steve! I decided after our recent trip to South America and Antarctica that I will only use lightroom for denoise. I had been using Topaz but found it can alter color and add artifacts.
 
Gotcha! Thanks! The video really is incredible. I have been a big DXO fan for noise reduction and their lens modules for a couple of years now. I just re-edited a high ISO shot using only Lightroom and your techniques and am just blown away with how much more 'realistic' the same photo now looks! Especially the tips on masking and denoising the background separately. Thanks so much, again!
Wow, if I was selling the thing I'd use that as a testimonial :)
Thanks so much!
 
Great video Steve! I decided after our recent trip to South America and Antarctica that I will only use lightroom for denoise. I had been using Topaz but found it can alter color and add artifacts.
I've not noticed any artifacts with Lightroom Denoise, but I got the ALL the time with Topaz and others. I think Lightroom uses a simpler / more primitive approach than the others and doesn't try as hard to dynamically use different treatments across the photo. So, using Denoise combined with the masks really seem to work well, at least it has for me, :)
 
A Master Class On Lightroom Denoise!
This video is a master class on Lightroom Denoise! If you want to see my techniques for making ISO 12,800 look like ISO 400, you're gonna love this! It's the BEST way to fix a noisy photo!

In fact, I think the advanced techniques at the end of the video allow you to make your images look better than any third-party app - just using Lightroom!

In this video, we'll take a really deep dive, and I'll show you everything you need to know to get the most from Lightroom Denoise. We'll talk about the kinds of images that work best, how the Donoise tool works, and some advanced techniques beyond just the simple Denoise dialog.

In fact, in my experience, the advanced techniques featured towards the end of this video preserve detail better than any third-party software I've tried while giving you the best possible noise reduction.

It's the best 45 minutes you'll spend on post processing!

Sorry. I must be getting too old to wander around in this fantasyland.

I have to be the advocate of truth on this one and suggest a few corrections to the topic.

If one shoots improperly exposed garbage willingly no amount of sharpening will make them a photographer. Buying a cell phone that does AI is all they need to reach their maximum photographic potential. The bar will be sufficiently lowered to guarantee success.

Denoise does not make 12,800 or any other ISO "Look like ISO 400". ISO 400 always looks like 400 and 12800 always looks like 12800. They are electronic gain values. One and zeros and RAW data never lies. AI simply aborts it into an illusion of what people WISH they had the pride and skill to create. Garbage in gets faked quality out. Did anyone else bother to read the Hogan guides or study induced noise or what dual gain is or any of those other principles that apply to the tools they paid thousands of bucks for?

AI denoise aborts what the photographers selects and replaces it with computer generated information.

But whatever turns you on. I've read great articles about how the Samsung S23Ultra is even better than what you are suggesting.

Does anyone reading any of this actually believe that any publisher of serious photography doesn't recognize the difference between faked out BS, AI converted throw aways and professional images created with human intelligence and pride?

When did grain in photographs become an evil concept? How many great historical images get thrown out of the MMoA when edge to edge, AI sharpness becomes a curators rule of thumb? What makes obvious fakery more marketable than classic realistic photographs that were shot precisely the way the creator intended and displayed with warts and all?

If AI make proper photography this easy, why are all so many saps buying long f/4 at 8 or 10 or 16 grand a pop. Are people really that unmotivated that they will spend big bucks for fan boy bodies and lenses and use them to shoot garbage to correct with CGI?

I'm sure that the AI photography crowds can't stand music performed live because it has ambience. Live music is never sharp "edge to edge". AI music always is.

I remember when photographic techniques were the main topic in BCG forums. Oh well...it's a tik tok, autotune world now and nothing is real. People sell out and forget where they began. But that's the business end of the internet "photography" world. You have to preach to the choir or the donation plate doesn't get filled. The choir wants to hear how to shoot pictures just like Steve or Simon or Gregory without putting in the time to learn to use the tools of the craft.

Why should they when the photographers they admire say "don't bother shooting images until you get it right...AI all you trash instead of throwing it out and you'll be just as good as me. Sort of...".

Ironically, I remember very well being influenced by Steve to buy my Wimberly head and learning to use it properly. I remember reading if you are chasing the subject you are going the wrong way. I remember Steve saying that getting closer is the solution to not having a long enough lens for a shot. I remember Steve emphasizing the value of being a competent naturalist in getting the shot right in the first place. All that ancient photography information was fascinating and helped me create.

It doesn't seem to carry any weight in the crowded "show me the money" internet photography world now that preserving throw aways shot at 20 frames a second is the most profitable aspect of photography to promote.

The only reason some people need to cheat is that someone tells them it's acceptable.
 
Thanks for this Steve.
How would you handle the occasional bit of color noise? The ai noise reduction in lightroom doesn't seem to do anything to it. You can adjust it in the manual noise reduction panel but only if you also move the luminance slider.
 
Here we go...

Sorry. I must be getting too old to wander around in this fantasyland.

I have to be the advocate of truth on this one and suggest a few corrections to the topic.

If one shoots improperly exposed garbage willingly no amount of sharpening will make them a photographer. Buying a cell phone that does AI is all they need to reach their maximum photographic potential. The bar will be sufficiently lowered to guarantee success.

Nowhere in the video does it promote that idea. In fact, I go to great lengths during the first 15 minutes to stress how important it is to get things right in the field, to fill the frame, and to make sure you have a sharp enough image to make any of this work.

Denoise does not make 12,800 or any other ISO "Look like ISO 400". ISO 400 always looks like 400 and 12800 always looks like 12800. They are electronic gain values. One and zeros and RAW data never lies. AI simply aborts it into an illusion of what people WISH they had the pride and skill to create. Garbage in gets faked quality out. Did anyone else bother to read the Hogan guides or study induced noise or what dual gain is or any of those other principles that apply to the tools they paid thousands of bucks for?

I think it's more proper to say that Denoise doesn't make ISO 12,800 into ISO 400 - but the entire point of any noise reduction software it to make any image look like something taken at a lower ISO. It's not changing the ISO and I don't think anything believes it is - but it can make it look like a lower ISO was used. If I took the shots in that video and showed them to a magazine editor, they would think it was at a far lower ISO than it really was.

AI denoise aborts what the photographers selects and replaces it with computer generated information.

It modifies what's there (like any denoise technique) sure, but I think that statement makes it sound like it Denoise software is randomly slapping in new info and that's a misrepresentation.

Does anyone reading any of this actually believe that any publisher of serious photography doesn't recognize the difference between faked out BS, AI converted throw aways and professional images created with human intelligence and pride?

I've had plenty of shots published that where I used denoise to clean them up. In fact, most pros will clean up their images before submission.

When did grain in photographs become an evil concept? How many great historical images get thrown out of the MMoA when edge to edge, AI sharpness becomes a curators rule of thumb? What makes obvious fakery more marketable than classic realistic photographs that were shot precisely the way the creator intended and displayed with warts and all?

Technology moves on and the bar is raised. When I look back at old magazines with lots of images from film cameras, I can't help but think that they would not stand up to today's standards. The bar has been raised and image quality is much better now that it's ever been. It's not to say that those images aren't classics, it's just that our standards go up over time. Just like we wouldn't expect to hand-crank a modern car to start it.

If AI make proper photography this easy, why are all so many saps buying long f/4 at 8 or 10 or 16 grand a pop. Are people really that unmotivated that they will spend big bucks for fan boy bodies and lenses and use them to shoot garbage to correct with CGI?

I'm sure that the AI photography crowds can't stand music performed live because it has ambience. Live music is never sharp "edge to edge". AI music always is.

Your conflating AI generated images with images that are cleaned up using Denoise software. They are not remotely the same thing.

I remember when photographic techniques were the main topic in BCG forums. Oh well...it's a tik tok, autotune world now and nothing is real. People sell out and forget where they began. But that's the business end of the internet "photography" world. You have to preach to the choir or the donation plate doesn't get filled. The choir wants to hear how to shoot pictures just like Steve or Simon or Gregory without putting in the time to learn to use the tools of the craft.

Why should they when the photographers they admire say "don't bother shooting images until you get it right...AI all you trash instead of throwing it out and you'll be just as good as me. Sort of...".

BCG still has good conversations about those topics and I don't see anyone here advising that we should just take junk and fix it with AI.

Ironically, I remember very well being influenced by Steve to buy my Wimberly head and learning to use it properly. I remember reading if you are chasing the subject you are going the wrong way. I remember Steve saying that getting closer is the solution to not having a long enough lens for a shot. I remember Steve emphasizing the value of being a competent naturalist in getting the shot right in the first place. All that ancient photography information was fascinating and helped me create.

It doesn't seem to carry any weight in the crowded "show me the money" internet photography world now that preserving throw aways shot at 20 frames a second is the most profitable aspect of photography to promote.

The only reason some people need to cheat is that someone tells them it's acceptable.

In all of my materials I advocate using the best techniques. I don't recall seeing anyone here advocating that we "cheat" and it's OK. The best images come from the best techniques and I think you're arguing a straw man here.
 
Thanks for this Steve.
How would you handle the occasional bit of color noise? The ai noise reduction in lightroom doesn't seem to do anything to it. You can adjust it in the manual noise reduction panel but only if you also move the luminance slider.
Honesty, I'm not running into color noise issues at all with it - I seems to get rid of it for me. You can still use the color noise slider in addition though if it's leaving anything behind (on the DNG).
 
Thanks, Steve. I'll watch your video later.

I use DXO PR for noise reduction: Is the general consensus that Lightroom is equal to, or better now? TBH, although I think DXO does a good job, I'd prefer not to use multiple software packages to achieve the same result.
 
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