Metering /exposure problems

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LauraG

LauraG

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Just wondering is anyone can help wrt what I might be doing wrong. I've had a long spate of underexposed images on my Z9, to the point where I have to increase exposure in Lr and copy/sync that across many of the images just uploaded, before I can determine which are the keepers or to be culled. I have (read and studied) Steve's book on metering, I've been shooting raw since the first Z6i was launched, I always check the light meter reading through the EVF and although it's dead centre (shooting manual with auto ISO), the histogram is usually on the low(er) end. When I upload onto the Mac, the initial view is good but within seconds the images darkens once it's loaded. Is it the Mac settings? monitor? is it the Z9? or is it me?

BTW @Steve please hurry with that Z6iii set-up guide you are writing while sending out those amazing videos ....I ordered one last week as soon as I had watched your first video, (the day before my camera store announced the launch of the new Z6iii), and this morning I received word that it has arrived and is awaiting collection... Wow, this is to be a second body to go on safari with, replacing the beloved Z6i with which I started my photography journey. I'm just back from safari but will give me time to get to know it better first.
 
I'm wondering if the initial image looking good is a clue. Do they look OK when you view them in the camera? If so, you may simply be inadvertently applying a preset in lightroom when you are importing. The part that looks good for a few seconds might be the jpeg preview embedded in the raw. When you import check the right column of lighttoom where you instruct it to apply a preset. Then look in your lightroom preferences to check what presets are being applied in general and also any camera specific presets that might be used.

First look at a problem image in the camera, tell us if it is dark or normal there. That will show you if you took a normal exposure in camera, because when you view in camera you are looking at the jpeg preview even though shooting raw. Report back, with more info we can refine the answer.
 
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DRwyoming said:
It would help if you could post some of the problem shots before processing.

But are you certain your exposure compensation is zeroed out unless the shot demands some comp?
Click to expand...
I agree, we need to see the raws (or at least, a jpg version of them without an additional edits), and what metering mode you're in, etc.

But it's probably not a camera problem.
 
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In addition to the points advanced by DR, Phil, etc., there is one aspect of your comments worth exploring, "although it's dead centre (shooting manual with auto ISO)". My presumption is that you are shooting with evaluative metering? One of the challenges when shooting an object against a changing background (think a bird against sky, which then dives down against trees, etc.) is that the camera will meter the overall scene and the subject will likely be underexposed especially in auto ISO. It would be very helpful to see some images, their histograms, and your settings so we can assist you in troubleshooting.
 
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LauraG said:
I always check the light meter reading through the EVF and although it's dead centre (shooting manual with auto ISO), the histogram is usually on the low(er) end. When I upload onto the Mac, the initial view is good but within seconds the images darkens once it's loaded. Is it the Mac settings? monitor? is it the Z9? or is it me?
Click to expand...
A clue to reason for the problem is your description of the histogram. As you said it’s “on the low(er) end.” If you raise exposure compensation until the rightmost portion of the histogram is close to the border on the right, the overall image will be brighter. This technique is known as expose-to-the-right. Without knowing your exposure settings (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) and light conditions of the scene, it’s difficult to provide more guidance.

Steve has instruction on use of the histogram. It’s worth a look.
 
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Thanks so much everyone for input so fast. The occasional error of not resetting the EC but that is quickly recognised... Also tried centre-weighted and even spot metering on occasion in an effort to get the subject correctly exposed. Reverted back to matrix metering. I never use a Lr preset for importing but will check the preferences in Lr as suggested and search through my images to use as examples. Will revert in a day or so. Many thanks again
 
LauraG said:
Thanks so much everyone for input so fast. The occasional error of not resetting the EC but that is quickly recognised... Also tried centre-weighted and even spot metering on occasion in an effort to get the subject correctly exposed. Reverted back to matrix metering. I never use a Lr preset for importing but will check the preferences in Lr as suggested and search through my images to use as examples. Will revert in a day or so. Many thanks again
Click to expand...

When you do post an example post it as-is with no LR adjustments, and it would be useful if you told us if the settings you see for the LR sliders are all zero or if not what has lightroom applied.
 
The only other thought would be that with auto iso a common situation that might cause a dark subject would be a light background especially backlit. The matrix meter is not perfect and in general will account for the background but sometimes you have to apply EC. Background brighter -brighten (positive EC). But that does not explain why the image is as you say "the initial view is good" when you first import the image. To me this indicates that lightroom is messing with your images.
 
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LauraG said:
When I upload onto the Mac, the initial view is good but within seconds the images darkens once it's loaded. Is it the Mac settings? monitor? is it the Z9? or is it me?
Click to expand...

I wonder if the Mac's gamma setting is having an effect on the image after it's loaded. Apple's machines are reported to ship with gamma set to 1.8 and I believe should be set to 2.2

Why Gamma 2.2 for Apple Monitors?

FAQ: Setting Apple displays for best profiling results.
www.xrite.com www.xrite.com
 
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ajrmd said:
In addition to the points advanced by DR, Phil, etc., there is one aspect of your comments worth exploring, "although it's dead centre (shooting manual with auto ISO)". My presumption is that you are shooting with evaluative metering? One of the challenges when shooting an object against a changing background (think a bird against sky, which then dives down against trees, etc.) is that the camera will meter the overall scene and the subject will likely be underexposed especially in auto ISO. It would be very helpful to see some images, their histograms, and your settings so we can assist you in troubleshooting.
Click to expand...
Yes I am not referring to bright sky backgrounds etc which would end up darkening the subject as the matrix metering response to the bright light, but even to images with a fairly standard light across the whole image - like ground and trees or grass background and a wildlife subject.
JAJohnson said:
A clue to reason for the problem is your description of the histogram. As you said it’s “on the low(er) end.” If you raise exposure compensation until the rightmost portion of the histogram is close to the border on the right, the overall image will be brighter. This technique is known as expose-to-the-right. Without knowing your exposure settings (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) and light conditions of the scene, it’s difficult to provide more guidance.

Steve has instruction on use of the histogram. It’s worth a look.
Click to expand...
Thank you - but nothing new there. I do not always check my histogram while shooting if wildlife is on the move and I am thinking through other considerations. I should perhaps pay more attention to it but I don't think this is the problem of the moment, except perhaps for some images, but not the general problem.
PhilcTx said:
I wonder if the Mac's gamma setting is having an effect on the image after it's loaded. Apple's machines are reported to ship with gamma set to 1.8 and I believe should be set to 2.2

Why Gamma 2.2 for Apple Monitors?

FAQ: Setting Apple displays for best profiling results.
www.xrite.com www.xrite.com
Click to expand...
 
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LauraG said:
Yes I am not referring to bright sky backgrounds etc which would end up darkening the subject as the matrix metering response to the bright light, but even to images with a fairly standard light across the whole image - like ground and trees or grass background and a wildlife subject.

JAJohnson said:
A clue to reason for the problem is your description of the histogram. As you said it’s “on the low(er) end.” If you raise exposure compensation until the rightmost portion of the histogram is close to the border on the right, the overall image will be brighter. This technique is known as expose-to-the-right. Without knowing your exposure settings (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) and light conditions of the scene, it’s difficult to provide more guidance.

Steve has instruction on use of the histogram. It’s worth a look.
Click to expand...
Thank you - but nothing new there. I do not always check my histogram while shooting if wildlife is on the move and I am thinking through other considerations. I should perhaps pay more attention to it but I don't think this is the problem of the moment, except perhaps for some images, but not the general problem.
Click to expand...
 
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LauraG said:
Yes I am not referring to bright sky backgrounds etc which would end up darkening the subject as the matrix metering response to the bright light, but even to images with a fairly standard light across the whole image - like ground and trees or grass background and a wildlife subject.

Thank you - but nothing new there. I do not always check my histogram while shooting if wildlife is on the move and I am thinking through other considerations. I should perhaps pay more attention to it but I don't think this is the problem of the moment, except perhaps for some images, but not the general problem.
Click to expand...
LauraG said:
Yes I am not referring to bright sky backgrounds etc which would end up darkening the subject as the matrix metering response to the bright light, but even to images with a fairly standard light across the whole image - like ground and trees or grass background and a wildlife subject.

Thank you - but nothing new there. I do not always check my histogram while shooting if wildlife is on the move and I am thinking through other considerations. I should perhaps pay more attention to it but I don't think this is the problem of the moment, except perhaps for some images, but not the general problem.
Click to expand...
PhilcTx said:
I wonder if the Mac's gamma setting is having an effect on the image after it's loaded. Apple's machines are reported to ship with gamma set to 1.8 and I believe should be set to 2.2

Why Gamma 2.2 for Apple Monitors?

FAQ: Setting Apple displays for best profiling results.
www.xrite.com www.xrite.com
Click to expand...
This sounds like a possibility as I have long suspected it is something to do with the Mac monitor but I have no idea how to check and/or alter this... Should I ask my Apple Store?
 
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bleirer said:
When you do post an example post it as-is with no LR adjustments, and it would be useful if you told us if the settings you see for the LR sliders are all zero or if not what has lightroom applied.
Click to expand...
I have tried to post the original RAW photo but for some reason I cannot fathom, the image on my ext hard drive will not upload onto this 'attach files' below - it simply greys out... What I can tell you is that on my Mac, the original RAW image as downloaded from the memory card and viewed in preview, is a lot lighter than the image which appears in Lr develop module once it is uploaded to Lr , even though NO alterations have been made as yet. So the image should surely be identical before any edits have been done. That may be the key, the pre-sets in Lr under preferences is set to Adobe default and not to camera default. Perhaps I should try altering this? I'm thinking either the Gamma 2.2 for Apple monitors or this Lr develop pre-set may be the problem.
 
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PhilcTx said:
I wonder if the Mac's gamma setting is having an effect on the image after it's loaded. Apple's machines are reported to ship with gamma set to 1.8 and I believe should be set to 2.2

Why Gamma 2.2 for Apple Monitors?

FAQ: Setting Apple displays for best profiling results.
www.xrite.com www.xrite.com
Click to expand...
That's certainly an issue on videos, which is why Adobe recommends and provides a gamma-correction lut and DaVinci puts one in automatically on Macs, but I always thought that was a QuickTime issue. I mean "feature." From memory, it pushes exposure by half a stop or so (as well as increasing saturation and contrast). Have not noticed it on stills.
 
LauraG said:
I have tried to post the original RAW photo but for some reason I cannot fathom, the image on my ext hard drive will not upload onto this 'attach files' below - it simply greys out... What I can tell you is that on my Mac, the original RAW image as downloaded from the memory card and viewed in preview, is a lot lighter than the image which appears in Lr develop module once it is uploaded to Lr , even though NO alterations have been made as yet. So the image should surely be identical before any edits have been done. That may be the key, the pre-sets in Lr under preferences is set to Adobe default and not to camera default. Perhaps I should try altering this? I'm thinking either the Gamma 2.2 for Apple monitors or this Lr develop pre-set may be the problem.
Click to expand...

When you look at the photos in lightroom at first to select which ones to import, you are looking at the embedded jpeg which reflects your in camera exposure before any lightroom adjustments. And depending on which preview you chose in the right side import panel, the preview in the library could be the embedded jpeg. I guess I would triple check the right side panel that you have no presets being applied, and no reason not to switch to camera settings. Then look at the sliders while in the develop module to make sure things affecting brightness are starting at zero.

If you are still concerned then things you could try would be to open the image in nx studio and see if it looks normal (this would tell you that the problem is in lightroom). Another thing would be to take a test shot of something uniform, even a blank white monitor screen. When you view the histogram in the camera review the histogram should be pretty much in the middle. If it comes out with the histogram to the left then something in the camera is underexposing.

Good luck.
 
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bleirer said:
I'm wondering if the initial image looking good is a clue. Do they look OK when you view them in the camera? If so, you may simply be inadvertently applying a preset in lightroom when you are importing. The part that looks good for a few seconds might be the jpeg preview embedded in the raw. When you import check the right column of lighttoom where you instruct it to apply a preset. Then look in your lightroom preferences to check what presets are being applied in general and also any camera specific presets that might be used.

First look at a problem image in the camera, tell us if it is dark or normal there. That will show you if you took a normal exposure in camera, because when you view in camera you are looking at the jpeg preview even though shooting raw. Report back, with more info we can refine the answer.
Click to expand...
Good points.
 
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