Milky Way photos - stacking images - many questions

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JustinGriggs said:
I highly recommend the program "Starry Landscape Stacker"
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I aslo used this software! I always took a one black frame per set of shots (10-15). But on the other hand there is an option in the camera -> noise reduction by long time exposure or high ISO (I don't remember exactly .. 🤔 ), which makes capture of image in camera longer (it is stating: "processing") becasue the camera takes a dark frame itself as I understand it.

I must say I don't use starry stacker anymore because the noise reduction software became so powerfull that I don't see it as necessary to stack. The other point is that I couldn't use it for some pictures-sets becasue my foreground was moving 🐘 😅 So, I was taking pictures of elephants drinking at the waterhole. They are very slow animals but they moved between first and 15th frame... In this case you need to process foregroung saparately. well.. sometimes we need it anyway...

You have such a beautiful image! If you would use a small light to lighten a building a bit then it will be extraordinary! If it is not far away from your home then I would try it again on your place.

I learnt from Richard Tatti, too (and some books).
 
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I believe the dark frame helps the software determine what is noise vs stars etc (since noise is random and why stacking works so well). Having a dark frame between series of shots will also help you determine when each series starts and begins. I used to take picture of my hand for this but the dark frame works better and isn't a waisted shot (its actually useful) I think I'm going to pick up a 20mm f/1.8 as I've heard wonderful things about it for night photos here and else where.
 
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I have used the 20 f1.8 lens for night shots. I used it wide open, because there is little coma at f1.8, at 8 seconds, ISO 2500 and took 15 shots and stacked them with Starry Landscape Stacker. I did a separate exposure for the foreground.
 
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I though also about 20mm f1.8 but for Africa for example, it is too long... The best is 14mm. You can say that there is no much difference between 20mm and 14mm but I think, it is. I can use longer exposure with 14mm and take less shots for panoramas.
I use Red-Enhancer filter against light- pollution and sometimes double-fog (kind of diffusor) from Tiffany. Here, for example the picture made with double-fog. It accentuate the big bright stars:
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Here I stacked with Starry-Stucker:
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And here I didn't have time to take more shots but lighted a camping site. Sure, I needed to take a separate shots for foreground but couldn't manage it, too. In Africa (Botswana) when lions roaring and coming to check a water in your shower and you need to switch off all lights ... it's a bit scared. There were a few moment when I was really scared ;-)
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ElenaH said:
I though also about 20mm f1.8 but for Africa for example, it is too long... The best is 14mm. You can say that there is no much difference between 20mm and 14mm but I think, it is. I can use longer exposure with 14mm and take less shots for panoramas.
I use Red-Enhancer filter against light- pollution and sometimes double-fog (kind of diffusor) from Tiffany. Here, for example the picture made with double-fog. It accentuate the big bright stars:
View attachment 59752
Here I stacked with Starry-Stucker:
View attachment 59753
And here I didn't have time to take more shots but lighted a camping site. Sure, I needed to take a separate shots for foreground but couldn't manage it, too. In Africa (Botswana) when lions roaring and coming to check a water in your shower and you need to switch off all lights ... it's a bit scared. There were a few moment when I was really scared ;-)
View attachment 59754
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These are stunning, Elena.
 
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ElenaH said:
I though also about 20mm f1.8 but for Africa for example, it is too long... The best is 14mm. You can say that there is no much difference between 20mm and 14mm but I think, it is. I can use longer exposure with 14mm and take less shots for panoramas.
I use Red-Enhancer filter against light- pollution and sometimes double-fog (kind of diffusor) from Tiffany. Here, for example the picture made with double-fog. It accentuate the big bright stars:
View attachment 59752
Here I stacked with Starry-Stucker:
View attachment 59753
And here I didn't have time to take more shots but lighted a camping site. Sure, I needed to take a separate shots for foreground but couldn't manage it, too. In Africa (Botswana) when lions roaring and coming to check a water in your shower and you need to switch off all lights ... it's a bit scared. There were a few moment when I was really scared ;-)
View attachment 59754
Click to expand...
You said that you use a light pollution filter. My concern with using one is that I would get less light. I'm already shooting 8 second exposures wide open at f1.8. Longer exposures would probably cause for star trailing. What is your experience?
 
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Bubbahotep said:
You said that you use a light pollution filter. My concern with using one is that I would get less light. I'm already shooting 8 second exposures wide open at f1.8. Longer exposures would probably cause for star trailing. What is your experience?
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I followed the Vixen Polarie Manual as a reference https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/486654.pdf
Polarie moves with 1/2 speed in Star-Scape mode so, I need to consider that for below numbers the Polarie is moving to compensate the earh rotation. That means I need to use a bit faster shutter speed if I am not using Polarie.
Botswana situated btween 17 and 24 grad Latitude South. I was using there 13-15sec exposure for stills. With 14mm lens I can use 15sec without any hesitation. The stars stay as dots. In Europe I can use 20-25sec.
For timelapse it is easier - the pictures will be rendered into the film and a bit of motion blur or star trails are welcome. So, in this case the shutter speed can be longer or I can use less wide lens.
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The red-enhancer filter will not absorb so much light that you need to make a big change in shutter speed when you are already using such long exposures like 13-15sec. At least for me it didn't make a big difference. Perhaps, from 13sec to 15sec but I doubt even that.
In any case 8 sec is too less IMO. If you are on 48-55 laitude you can start with 20-25sec already (depending on lens, of course). The wider lens the less time you need for exposure.
The other parameters are: open aperture (f1.8 or 2.8 accordingly), max (manual) ISO 6400 (better less, if possible) and manual WB.

It is interesting how big the exposure difference is between let's say 15mm and 24mm lenses.
 

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Great discussion. I would like to learn more about astrophotography with a Z9. Has anybody heard of modifying a Z9 so the sensor filter will allow more UV and IR through to the sensor? I am using a Fornax LighTrack II for tracking. And I use a Polemaster for polar alignment, although this requires a laptop to go through the alignment process.
 
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canyonlight said:
Has anybody heard of modifying a Z9 so the sensor filter will allow more UV and IR through to the sensor?
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WOW! It sounds interesting! I didn#t heard about it! Do you have an info or link?

canyonlight said:
I am using a Fornax LighTrack II for tracking. And I use a Polemaster for polar alignment, although this requires a laptop to go through the alignment process.
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for me it looks like you are more experienced in astro-photography! I used Polarie (Tracker) a bit but I do the most astrophotograhy in Africa due to beautiful skies without pollution and I am restricted with weight. I am trying to improve my creativity by using other opportunities like GoPro, light painting and so on..
The last GoPro 11 has a modes of star trails, light painting and day-to-night timelapses, it is very small :) and I can use it in the trip for many different goals ;-)
In Africa I forgot to change a switsch from Northern to Southern emisphere and wondered why my stars looked like lines :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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canyonlight said:
Great discussion. I would like to learn more about astrophotography with a Z9. Has anybody heard of modifying a Z9 so the sensor filter will allow more UV and IR through to the sensor? I am using a Fornax LighTrack II for tracking. And I use a Polemaster for polar alignment, although this requires a laptop to go through the alignment process.
Click to expand...
Are you sure that you want to modify the sensor on your Z9? It'll screw up your white balance. If you do do so, you'll have to choose either between a full spectrum modification or IR modification. If you plan on using the Z9 strictly for astrophotography, stick to the IR modification as you won't need to buy a filter to cut out other parts of the spectrum. However, if you are interested in playing with astrophotography as well as full spectrum and black and white photography, do the full spectrum mod. Personally, if I were you, I would use a cheaper camera for astrophotography, like the Z6 of Z6II. Fewer pixels usually means less noise when it comes to night photography.
 
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ElenaH said:
I followed the Vixen Polarie Manual as a reference https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/486654.pdf
Polarie moves with 1/2 speed in Star-Scape mode so, I need to consider that for below numbers the Polarie is moving to compensate the earh rotation. That means I need to use a bit faster shutter speed if I am not using Polarie.
Botswana situated btween 17 and 24 grad Latitude South. I was using there 13-15sec exposure for stills. With 14mm lens I can use 15sec without any hesitation. The stars stay as dots. In Europe I can use 20-25sec.
For timelapse it is easier - the pictures will be rendered into the film and a bit of motion blur or star trails are welcome. So, in this case the shutter speed can be longer or I can use less wide lens.
index.php


The red-enhancer filter will not absorb so much light that you need to make a big change in shutter speed when you are already using such long exposures like 13-15sec. At least for me it didn't make a big difference. Perhaps, from 13sec to 15sec but I doubt even that.
In any case 8 sec is too less IMO. If you are on 48-55 laitude you can start with 20-25sec already (depending on lens, of course). The wider lens the less time you need for exposure.
The other parameters are: open aperture (f1.8 or 2.8 accordingly), max (manual) ISO 6400 (better less, if possible) and manual WB.

It is interesting how big the exposure difference is between let's say 15mm and 24mm lenses.
Click to expand...
Personally, I can't take 20 second exposures as they result in star trailing. This despite the fact that I think I use a pretty good lens, Nikon Z 20mm 1.8f, and live in a pretty high latitude. This fact is corroborated by this calculation I got from Photopills.

image(1).png


Note that you have less exposure time before star streaking occurs when you use a higher MP camera like the Z9. So, using a higher MP camera (assuming that the higher MP camera has no special sensor) will be more difficult.

image.png


Note to everyone, your experience may vary. I'm just reporting on mine. If I want to get longer exposures, I will have to use a tracker like the Polarie, Move Shoot Move, Omegon LX2, Fornax, etc. The results are better but it also takes more work, e.g., polar alignment, positioning the camera so the Milky Way is in the right place, etc.
 
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Bubbahotep said:
Note that you have less exposure time before star streaking occurs when you use a higher MP camera like the Z9.
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this is absolutely true!
But wher are you siuated? Northern hemisphere? which latitude? Is it 48.00 a latitude what Photopills shows?
Did you try with 15sec? 8sec looks for me rather short. The question is also what are you going to do with the images? Pixel-pipping or print it big or just post on socila media without any crop? I am quite sure that my pictures are also not perfect and certainly the stars have small trails and some coma on the edges...
 
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ElenaH said:
this is absolutely true!
But wher are you siuated? Northern hemisphere? which latitude? Is it 48.00 a latitude what Photopills shows?
Did you try with 15sec? 8sec looks for me rather short. The question is also what are you going to do with the images? Pixel-pipping or print it big or just post on socila media without any crop? I am quite sure that my pictures are also not perfect and certainly the stars have small trails and some coma on the edges...
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I'm in the Northern Hemisphere and at roughly 48 degrees latitude. I'll try lengthening the exposure time again but I do know when I expose for 20 seconds I get star trailing which when enlarging the image even slightly. I also know that my MW images contain all sorts of artifacts when examined closely but I just try to manage these artifacts so that they aren't so obvious that they are easily uncovered under even the mildest scrutiny. Some artifacts I choose to live with like the stars in the corners which often that look like thorns. This is inevitable even with very fine lenses.

Out of curiousity, did you find my image on the previous page underexposed? I'm just looking for an honest opinion as it will help me evaluate my MW images more objectively. I also have to manage light pollution. I live in a Bortle 5 zone.
 
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AstroEd said:
Another possible tool, if you do take darks and biases this software can use them as well.

astrobackyard.com

The Beginner-Friendly DeepSkyStacker Astrophotography Tutorial

DeepSkyStacker is a useful astrophotography tool to calibrate, register, and stack your images. This tutorial walks you through the basic settings I use.
astrobackyard.com astrobackyard.com
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Thanks but they are hit or miss with Sequator.

BTW, this thread is now focused on me and it really should be focused on helping Bob K as he is the thread starter. My input on this thread is to share my experience and know how with Bob K.
 
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Bubbahotep said:
Out of curiousity, did you find my image on the previous page underexposed?
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no, not at all. Actually no one image underexposed, also not the image of @Bob k.
We often look at images during the day and they seem to be dark, but they are not. Or we view them after some bright images and it will bring the same effect - they will seem to be dark. But night is dark ;-) Perhaps, you can bring more contrast (more whites in stars). By the way, you are right with shutter speed - my second image was made in Europe (also about 48.00 latitude) with 14mm and 25sec and the trails are seen very good! So, the exposure was too long!
The other two images were taken in Africa with 10sec and 8sec. So, I suggest you to use 25sec and myself use 8sec 😅 and with 25sec the trails are seen clearly!
 
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Here no stacking neither.
A panorama from 15 images (lot of overlapping - less shots would have be enough), D850 - 35 mm - f/2 - 10s - 1600 iso.
I did several tests shots to find the right shutter speed. It is set very little slow (stars are very slightly stretched), but i could reduce to about 8k pixels high without seing any stretch.

I wanted a natural foreground, so I didn't paint light it. I found light pollution was enough with silouette trees to create a foreground.
Zenith is about 2 third of the frame. Center of milkyway is hidden by light pollution. A the top of the frame we can see light pollution beginning again.
Not in Africa for sure.


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