NAS Questions

[Hooligans Imagery]

I looked at Hudson Henry's video on the Synology NAS and am ready to proceed.

I posted in the comments a question about managed vs unmanaged switches. He says unmanaged is fine.

I then posted, twice no less, that he recommends a managed one and that the unmanaged one is less expensive. He has deleted those posts it appears, each time. His links show the EMX model and GMX is the same but unmanaged.

Netgear switches

So anybody have thoughts on that?

Also what drives are people using. WD Red and Seagate IronWolf come up a lot. I have read the Pro versions aren't needed for the home and also spin at 7200 all the time and are noisier. Any thoughts on that?

What else do I need to know as a first time user?

 

[LarryR]

I suggest an unmanaged switch unless you know how and are willing to setup the various switch/network parameters. As an IT guy for 40 years, that's what I'm doing since I'm going the NAS route myself shortly. There's no need that I see for a managed switch for home use unless you're into experimenting or plan to expand your network. Netgear is a good brand - I haven't decided yet what new equipment I'm getting.

As far a HDD, I think either WD or Seagate is fine. Again, unless you're a pro with extensive files and huge storage needs, you probably don't need an enterprise level drive in the NAS. Don't know about the noise level - most of my experience is inside a data center, where the A/C drowns out all the other noise .

There's a YT channel I sometimes watch that has lots of NAS info, especially on Synology, called SpaceRex. FWIW, I think Hudson did a nice job on his videos on the process.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

@LarryR Thanks for clarifying. This helps me get going.

 

[Ralph]

I looked at Hudson Henry's video on the Synology NAS and am ready to proceed.

I posted in the comments a question about managed vs unmanaged switches. He says unmanaged is fine.

I then posted, twice no less, that he recommends a managed one and that the unmanaged one is less expensive. He has deleted those posts it appears, each time. His links show the EMX model and GMX is the same but unmanaged.

Netgear switches

So anybody have thoughts on that?

Also what drives are people using. WD Red and Seagate IronWolf come up a lot. I have read the Pro versions aren't needed for the home and also spin at 7200 all the time and are noisier. Any thoughts on that?

What else do I need to know as a first time user?

I use Toshiba drives.

 

[gnpToday]

Coincidently even before Hudson did his videos I purchased a Synology, DS 1821+ and I’m very happy with it. I am using iron wolf drives, and have been very happy with them.

 

[Midway]

I use Toshiba drives.

When I purchased my DS923+ there were a handful of drive manufacturers listed but many of them were only for earlier firmware versions. For example the Seagate 12TB IronWolf NAS drives I purchased with a BHPhoto kit had an early version listed as compatible but not the more current model being shipped at the time. Toshiba and Synology made up most of the compatible drives and I believe Toshiba makes the Synology drives. Checking the compatibility list today and Synology drives are the only ones listed, Toshiba is not even listed anymore if I am finding the correct list. They still work fine but getting support from Synology if I have problems is a concern but the cost savings may be worth the risk. Edit: There is a 3rd party drop down that still lists 3rd party drives but the old models on the list remains and still does not include my 12TB Seagate ST12000VN0008 - 2PH103 drives, just an older Seagate IronWolf Series Model Number ST12000VN0008 - 2YS101. I don't know if the other supported drives are current available models or not. It seems Synology has stopped or is very slow to test new 3rd party drive models.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/compatibility?search_by=products&model=DS923%2B&category=hdds_no_ssd_trim

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HDD/SSD​

We have tested and verified the compatibility of third-party products and peripherals on the Synology Products Compatibility List. Please note that the tests conducted in Synology labs may not have covered every aspect and that changes to firmware or hardware may affect device compatibility and stability. Synology does not guarantee the compatibility with third-party products and peripherals on the List and reserves the right to update the List at any time without prior notice (Learn more).
Synology will not provide technical support if your device is not on the Synology Products Compatibility List.

 

[Anjin San]

Unmanaged will be more than adequate unless you’ve got many users accessing it at the same time…and for most home or serious amateur users if you’ve got an always on computer a Thunderbolt RAID connected to it and shared will also be more than adequate…unless you also want some of the NAS features that the desktop RAID can’t provide but thee aren’t a lot of those for the kind of use most of us have for large drives. And the RAiD is usually cheaper overall as well…and for most of us the slight extra speed that the 1p gigabit expensive Ethernet provides doesn’t materially affect our LR ingestion or PP times anyway…if it takes 2 minutes to produce a bunch of 1:1 previews with the RAID and the 3x more money NAS does it in 1:40…so what? The NAS also provides another device you have to manage but it does have the capability to be in a closet with the noise not at your computer…but my ThunderBay Mini from OWC uses 2.5 inch drives and is pretty silent anyway and while it isn’t 10GB Ethernet speed it’s close and a lot cheaper.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

. Edit: There is a 3rd party drop down that still lists 3rd party drives but the old models on the list remains and still does not include my 12TB Seagate ST12000VN0008 - 2PH103 drives, just an older Seagate IronWolf Series Model Number ST12000VN0008 - 2YS101. I don't know if the other supported drives are current available models or not. It seems Synology has stopped or is very slow to test new 3rd party drive models.

​

I don't see the 12TB Seagate ST12000VN0008 - 2PH103 for sale. I only see the one listed 2YS101 that is in the Synology list. Link? What's different.

 

[Midway]

I don't see the 12TB Seagate ST12000VN0008 - 2PH103 for sale. I only see the one listed 2YS101 that is in the Synology list. Link? What's different.

BHPhoto and I assume others have them for sale.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1634056-REG/seagate_st12000vn0008_12tb_ironwolf_3_5_internal.html

The problem is the only number on the box and information resellers have available to them is the first part of the model number, MFR #ST12000VN0008 in the case of the drives I purchased. It is only after you remove the drive can you see the entire model number printed on the drive itself , the older, compatible - 2YS101 that I think is now replaced with the current - 2PH103 and it is not on the compatible list. I get an error message when initializing it but I just ignored it and they are working fine. I don't know if the other manufactures models have a similar model naming convention or not.

 

[Calson]

Managed switches simply allow you to configure data throughput allocation between attached devices. A big deal in an office environment where there may be data intenstive users with CAD or video editing or similar needs but of no consequence in a home office situation.

More important is that the cheaper switches are often unalbe to provide the states data throughput through all the ports simultaneously. A 8-port 1GB switch may only provide 1GB to a single port and when two computers are accessing two of the ports the throughput can fall by 50%. That is why one can pay $50 or $500 for a 8-port switch. They also vary in their support for PoE or power over Ethernet which is used primarily to power video security cameras.

Key with a NAS as with computers, is the level of customer support provided either directly with firmware updates and new applications, or with an active user forum. This varies widely with NAS vendors and it was in part a desire to get better technical support that led me to upgrade my NAS to a QNAP model and to add a second QNAP at my home office.

Taking computer or network advice from a photographer is not something I would ever recommend doing. The devil is in the details and they are not aware of how much they do not know or whether their assumptions are broadly applicable.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I have one other question - in the Hudson video he is using a Netgear Managed Switch or that is what his links goes too. It has eight 1GB ports and two 10GB ports

In the video, the Network set up shows 5 LANs. In his description he says LAN 5 is the 10gb one.

Why are there only 5 LANs and not 10 (or 9 due to the one to the router)?

 

[LarryR]

I don't think this is looking at the switch, but rather the connections on the NAS.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I don't think this is looking at the switch, but rather the connections on the NAS.

Ok that makes sense now it’s the NAS.

 

[PhilcTx]

I looked at Hudson Henry's video on the Synology NAS and am ready to proceed.

I posted in the comments a question about managed vs unmanaged switches. He says unmanaged is fine.

I then posted, twice no less, that he recommends a managed one and that the unmanaged one is less expensive. He has deleted those posts it appears, each time. His links show the EMX model and GMX is the same but unmanaged.

Netgear switches

So anybody have thoughts on that?

Also what drives are people using. WD Red and Seagate IronWolf come up a lot. I have read the Pro versions aren't needed for the home and also spin at 7200 all the time and are noisier. Any thoughts on that?

What else do I need to know as a first time user?

I've used a Synology DS214 for 9 years or so for backups.

It has a pair of HGST Deskstar NAS 3TB SATA hard drives. Drive manf date is Dec-2013 so they've lived up to their NAS spec. The DS214/HGST drives only spin up when being used.

It's plugged into a Netgear GS105 5 port unmanaged switch.

I recently installed Synology Drive server s/w on the DS214 and it's client s/w on my system to manage the backups. Never a problem with any of it.

 

[Calson]

Read the review where the user had the 10GB port "freezing" which means the components could not handle sustained 10GB data rates. This happens even with the 1GB ports on the low end switches. The reviewer also mentions the terrible customer support from Netgear. The customer support can vary between manufactures and can vary by year with it getting better or worse depending on the priorities of the management at the time.

With switches you very much get what you pay for and it is not a good place to cut corners.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

Read the review where the user had the 10GB port "freezing" which means the components could not handle sustained 10GB data rates. This happens even with the 1GB ports on the low end switches. The reviewer also mentions the terrible customer support from Netgear. The customer support can vary between manufactures and can vary by year with it getting better or worse depending on the priorities of the management at the time.

With switches you very much get what you pay for and it is not a good place to cut corners.

Any suggested ones to use? I did buy the Netgear one and if it doesn't work I'll return it.

 

[Calson]

Cisco is a brand you can trust but they have low end models that sell for around $100 and I would avoid these. The reviews will let you know if the switch lives up to its manufacturer's specifications.

Prices have come down by 50% in the past few years so the cost for one that will provide 1GB throughput simulanteously on all its ports is a lot less. I am waiting for a 10GB switch to be "affordable" for my home office. Cisco is designed for experienced network administrators and not what I would recommend to the general user.

At this time the 10GB switches are not reliable and overheat and shut down. In a year this is less likely to be the case. No point in paying for higher speed ports that do not actually deliver the advertised speed. Pick a switch with the number of ports you need and with 1GB provided at all of the ports.

One switch to consider is the Netgear ProSafe GS110TP 8-port Gigabit managed switch that is selling for $168 at BH Photo. It has a simple GUI interface for configuring it which can help a great deal. Another is the Netgear GS110MX unmanaged and the managed version the GS110EMX that have 8 1GB ports and two 10GB ports so the faster ports can be connected to a NAS and support clients at 1GB at each port. There is a GUI interface with the Netgear switches. MikroTik also provides a lot of value with their switches but I have no idea about there level of post sale support.

​

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

One switch to consider is the Netgear ProSafe GS110TP 8-port Gigabit managed switch that is selling for $168 at BH Photo. It has a simple GUI interface for configuring it which can help a great deal. Another is the Netgear GS110MX unmanaged and the managed version the GS110EMX that have 8 1GB ports and two 10GB ports so the faster ports can be connected to a NAS and support clients at 1GB at each port. There is a GUI interface with the Netgear switches. MikroTik also provides a lot of value with their switches but I have no idea about there level of post sale support.

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I think the GS110TP has POE which I don't need. I bought the 110MX based on the advice here that I don't need managed and it was $100 cheaper than the EMX.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

When I purchased my DS923+ there were a handful of drive manufacturers listed but many of them were only for earlier firmware versions. For example the Seagate 12TB IronWolf NAS drives I purchased with a BHPhoto kit had an early version listed as compatible but not the more current model being shipped at the time.

In an SpaceRex video I just watched this is mentioned. You get one pop up and it goes away as the drive isn't yet tested. He mentioned that it's not a pop up you get each time.

 

[Calson]

The tested drive list is always going to be limited as the companies cannot buy and test every drive from every manufacturer. Good enough to read the data and review on the NAS specific drives like the WD Red and the Seagate Ironwolf and decide which ones to buy.

I was running the WD Red Pro drives that run at a much higher rpms and are also run 15 degrees hotter than the slower NAS drives. In the enclosures there is always one drive bay that does not get as much cooling from the case fan and that has tended to be the drive that fails prematurely. No performance gain in a RAID array with the faster drive that cost more and are likley to fail sooner.

 

[Midway]

In an SpaceRex video I just watched this is mentioned. You get one pop up and it goes away as the drive isn't yet tested. He mentioned that it's not a pop up you get each time.

This is what I get. I chose to proceed. I'm not sure what that might do when asking for support from Synology.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[Midway]

I have started to copy folders and files from my Desktop PC to my Synology DS923+ and it is taking days. I don’t want to stop until this que is finished but I am open to a faster way if the benefit justifies the cost. Once I get all the archived files transferred it shouldn’t be as important as long as I move files over frequently. My HD’s were going to sleep and that pauses the transfer so I just changed that setting way out and will need to remember to change it back.

I have duel 1gb RJ45’s on the Synology and there is a 10GB option card I could add. There are optional 10gb interface cards I could install in my PC, The motherboard has 2 ea. 1GB. There is a USB-C to 10gb interface card for my MacBook Pro M2 Max. Will these make much difference when copying files from my PC’s internal drives? I think it would make a difference on the MacBook Pro but not sure about the PC which for now is where all the files are.

I use an ASUS RT-AC88U gigabit router and have an unused Netgear GS308P gigabit switch I could use if the ASUS is a bottle neck.

Here are the main components of the PC I built. It has been a few years. ASUS ROG RAMPAGE V EDITION 10 / Intel Core i7-6850K w/ Corsair H100i V2, G.SKILL TridentZ 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600), 4 ea. WD 6TB Red Pro 7200 rpm SATA III and two SSD’s.

Thank you.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I have started to copy folders and files from my Desktop PC to my Synology DS923+ and it is taking days. I don’t want to stop until this que is finished but I am open to a faster way if the benefit justifies the cost. Once I get all the archived files transferred it shouldn’t be as important as long as I move files over frequently. My HD’s were going to sleep and that pauses the transfer so I just changed that setting way out and will need to remember to change it back.

I have duel 1gb RJ45’s on the Synology and there is a 10GB option card I could add. There are optional 10gb interface cards I could install in my PC, The motherboard has 2 ea. 1GB. There is a USB-C to 10gb interface card for my MacBook Pro M2 Max. Will these make much difference when copying files from my PC’s internal drives? I think it would make a difference on the MacBook Pro but not sure about the PC which for now is where all the files are.

I use an ASUS RT-AC88U gigabit router and have an unused Netgear GS308P gigabit switch I could use if the ASUS is a bottle neck.

Here are the main components of the PC I built. It has been a few years. ASUS ROG RAMPAGE V EDITION 10 / Intel Core i7-6850K w/ Corsair H100i V2, G.SKILL TridentZ 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600), 4 ea. WD 6TB Red Pro 7200 rpm SATA III and two SSD’s.

Thank you.

@Midway

I haven't tried moving big files yet so don't know.

But try this - although you just said you don't want to interrupt the process.
If you have 7.2 installed go to File Services>SMB>Advanced>other tab - enable SMB3 multichannel. You can double the bandwidth with two cables. Don't know if you can do more than 2.

Mine 1522 set up with a 10gb and a NVMe caches is getting 550mbs write speeds using the Black Magic test.

I haven't been home enough to move files around and I also want to set up my old Windows to move those over as backup.

Good luck and hope it helps.

This video at 21.31

 

[Midway]

The 1522 would have been a better choice for me especially if I end up adding the 10GB card.

I am looking into the USB 3.2 Gen 1 Port on our Synologies. I can even connect from my new Dell monitor and leave it connected since the Dell passes through my Mac's USB 3.2 Gen 2 speeds and possibly get 5GB speeds that way? Doesn't help the PC but I'm not sure anything well, even transferring between drives on the PC is slow.

Thanks.

 

[LarryR]

@Midway

I just bought the 923+ also, with 4x8Tb drives. I also got the small 10Gb card and 1 400Gb nvme cache card. I had about 2Tb worth of images to transfer and that took about 8 hours, but I did it in stages so the actual transfer time is different.
The setup is with a 2.5Gb ethernet port on the PC (also home built), the switch is a Netgear with 2x10Gb ports and 8x 1Gb. I saw I was getting about 400Mb/s when I was transferring the files. How much data are you trying to move? Aggregating the ethernet ports should help