Ben Adler
New member
Would be interested in what others have found with regard to switching off VR at fast shutter speeds. Is it necessary to do so with this lens?
Nikon 500 PF and VR
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wild-pics
Member
I use VR at and below 1/800 SS with the D500. For larger static birds and animals normal VR, for moving animals, BIF I use sports VR. However if focusing at the eye I use Sports mode always as the focus point jump is minimised.
Ben Adler
New member
Thanks. It seems to be a sort of dogma that VR should be off at fast shutter speeds but I can't say I've seen any detrimental effect so was wondering what others have found.
wild-pics
Member
I do get better acuity when VR is switched off above 1/1000 th, but it's somewhat variable.
I always use it . Sometimes at faster shutter speeds(2000-2500) I’ll notice some jumping around of focus point but doesn’t occur often. I use the normal setting. I’m going to do some experimentation today .
Warren D
Well-known member
I'm finding that tracking BIF the VR seems to result in more af misses especially when the subject is smaller in the frame. I've also noticed the VR has a more detrimental effect when tracking BIF (or aircraft) as they get more overhead (ie, pointing the camera higher up from level) The 500 pf is easier for me to stay on my target than my 500E or 600E so I'm finding better results with vr off. If my subject is stationary and my shutter speeds are low I'll switch it on but more often I'm turning it off.
joe43
Well-known member
I turn off VR when I am shooting at 1/500 sec or higher with my 500mm f5.6 pf mounted on a D 500 or D 850. I have no proof for this, but I do it to be on the safe side.
The problem is VR at higher speeds is sometimes fine and sometimes not. If you leave it on, it's not like every image will have a problem and the amount of problem also can vary from image to image. Plus, in some cases, it's tough to tell if the blur is from VR or technique - lots of variables. Oh, and each lens is different too - the 500PF tolerates VR on at higher speeds much better than the 200-500 for instance (at least in my experience).
For the most part, I try to remember to shut VR off at higher shutter speeds but I don't lose any sleep over it if I don't. Most of the time if I take a series of images at higher speeds with VR, I'll have enough keepers that it doesn't matter anyway if one doesn't make the cut.
For the most part, I try to remember to shut VR off at higher shutter speeds but I don't lose any sleep over it if I don't. Most of the time if I take a series of images at higher speeds with VR, I'll have enough keepers that it doesn't matter anyway if one doesn't make the cut.
Steve,
Do you use the VR normal setting or the sport setting for BIF. I notice that there is little less if any hopping around of the focal point with sport. Is that my imagination or is that what you find as well?
Thern
Well-known member
Normally I follow the old reciprocal rule for the minimal shutterspeed for a given focal length.
For those not knowing this rule it means if you’re shooting with a fullframe camera plus a 500mm you need a shutterspeed of at least 1/500th of a sec.
If you’re shooting a cropcamera you need a shutterspeed of at least 1/750th of a sec. (Since we don’t have 1/750 it will be 1/800)
This rule of thumb is from the early days when we didn’t have optical stabilisation yet and the common consent was that this rule prevented visual impact by camerashake. (Which it does)
Off course we trained long lenstechnique and especially our arms LOL, so we could shoot at a slower shutterspeed.
Then Canon released IS and everybody demanded optical stabilisation! Hahaha those were the days I heard Nikon would die! Lagging behind, lots of people switching brands... (well, we know history)
It took Nikon a lot of time to release their first VR lens (yup that ..... 80-400 screwyou eh screwdriver lens)
Everybody happy? Mwah... in the end most proshooters didn’t care much for VR.
In the army we didn’t even get VR lenses untill our lenses were up for replacement.
Don’t get me wrong, VR is a very nice feature, but it’s a solution for a problem and when used incorrect it may induce some strange effects and it may cost you acquity.
Like Steve says, shoot in bursts and the effect won’t be noticeable in at least one frame.
(Not my method of shooting but I’m wasted by the filmdays when every shot costed you)
Thom Hogan did a very comprehensive WRITE-UP on the subject.
For those not knowing this rule it means if you’re shooting with a fullframe camera plus a 500mm you need a shutterspeed of at least 1/500th of a sec.
If you’re shooting a cropcamera you need a shutterspeed of at least 1/750th of a sec. (Since we don’t have 1/750 it will be 1/800)
This rule of thumb is from the early days when we didn’t have optical stabilisation yet and the common consent was that this rule prevented visual impact by camerashake. (Which it does)
Off course we trained long lenstechnique and especially our arms LOL, so we could shoot at a slower shutterspeed.
Then Canon released IS and everybody demanded optical stabilisation! Hahaha those were the days I heard Nikon would die! Lagging behind, lots of people switching brands... (well, we know history)
It took Nikon a lot of time to release their first VR lens (yup that ..... 80-400 screwyou eh screwdriver lens)
Everybody happy? Mwah... in the end most proshooters didn’t care much for VR.
In the army we didn’t even get VR lenses untill our lenses were up for replacement.
Don’t get me wrong, VR is a very nice feature, but it’s a solution for a problem and when used incorrect it may induce some strange effects and it may cost you acquity.
Like Steve says, shoot in bursts and the effect won’t be noticeable in at least one frame.
(Not my method of shooting but I’m wasted by the filmdays when every shot costed you)
Thom Hogan did a very comprehensive WRITE-UP on the subject.
gbodave
Active member
I agree with Steve wholeheartedly and he and I have shared a discussion on this previously. There are too many variables to be able to "prove" this point about VR at high shutter speeds but there are a number of so called "experts" who put this across as a must do. They have nothing but a feeling that doing it is right. I'm fine with that but a feeling only has validity to that person and if it works for them that's fine.
One of my photographic philosophies has been for some time " do what works for me in the field". Not some theoretical argument on youtube that has nothing concrete to back it up. That doesn't mean I'm resistant to new or different approaches but it has to make at least some sense to me before I'm convinced.
So, I have never turned VR off for anything, not even when on a tripod, and I'm happy that this hasn't affected the quality of the images I take. Why should I want to change from my field knowledge to what amounts to someone's "feeling".
One of my photographic philosophies has been for some time " do what works for me in the field". Not some theoretical argument on youtube that has nothing concrete to back it up. That doesn't mean I'm resistant to new or different approaches but it has to make at least some sense to me before I'm convinced.
So, I have never turned VR off for anything, not even when on a tripod, and I'm happy that this hasn't affected the quality of the images I take. Why should I want to change from my field knowledge to what amounts to someone's "feeling".
I almost always use Sport, although I think Normal gives you a little better stability, especially if you're hand-holding.
Rogereh
Active member
I'm 74 and getting pretty dim-witted (forgetful). I mostly forget to turn VR off on, and even to turn it on at times. I get some terrific photos with the 500PF and some not so good The good ones make me think I'm a great photographer. The bad ones is always someone else's fault. 
Just recently finally snagged the 500PF and love it over my other lenses in this category. I now find that my 200-500 stays home but sometimes wish for that 200mm end when something is too close for 500mm. But, I never wish to go back to that heavy lens. I've been shooting it on my D500. Not fond of using my D850 for birding. Still undecided about using my Z7 over the D500?? The D500 is still hard to beat for wildlife. I only shoot for fun now and mostly for showing my pics to my friends on Facebook.
Just recently finally snagged the 500PF and love it over my other lenses in this category. I now find that my 200-500 stays home but sometimes wish for that 200mm end when something is too close for 500mm. But, I never wish to go back to that heavy lens. I've been shooting it on my D500. Not fond of using my D850 for birding. Still undecided about using my Z7 over the D500?? The D500 is still hard to beat for wildlife. I only shoot for fun now and mostly for showing my pics to my friends on Facebook.
My intent is to turn VR off when shutter speed gets to 1/1000s or faster but in the thrill of the moment I often forget to do it. Can‘t say I notice a difference especially given other technique variables. I do generally turn VR off when using a gimbal head or monopod mount.
Ben Adler
New member
Thanks for your comments everyone. After all of this, I did a controlled experiment with VR Off, VR Normal and VR Sport at shutter speeds from 250 to 8000, followed by some serious pixel peeping. All hand held and on a stationary target, so yes some limitations. Nevertheless, even at 1000 the difference in sharpness using VR was VERY noticeable. At 2000 and above I really could not see any difference at all.
gbodave
Active member
Thanks for taking the time.
At 1/1000 what was the order of sharpness at the three different VR settings and how good was the best and how bad was the worst option.
How did ISO change in all the tests.
At 1/1000 what was the order of sharpness at the three different VR settings and how good was the best and how bad was the worst option.
How did ISO change in all the tests.
Ben Adler
New member
ISO was 125 for all 3 1/1000 shutter speeds. At 1/1000 zooming in shows the VR Off image clearly inferior to the other 2.
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And honestly, that's really the point of VR - if using it at a given shutter speed gives you better results, that's what you should do
So many times people get too caught up in when to turn it on and off when it's the results that count - and those often vary by individual.
ruley74
Well-known member
Funny, i rarely ever turn it off.
In a related question for this lens and VR, given the hand holding nature of this lens, what would be a reasonable expectation for low shutter speeds given reasonable technique? Further, for people using it with a Z camera, do you/can you go lower?
In a related question for this lens and VR, given the hand holding nature of this lens, what would be a reasonable expectation for low shutter speeds given reasonable technique? Further, for people using it with a Z camera, do you/can you go lower?
gbodave
Active member
Thanks for the extra info' Ben.
O
Well-known member
I shoot predominatly at 1/3200 to 1/4000 ss, be it the 300.28 VR II with a 1.4 convertor or the 200-500. 70-2200 fl.
As a rule I have been taught to always turn of the VR at anything above 1200 ss as it can have an effect on focusing speed or accuracy etc,
I have been taught that over 1/1200 SS VR in many cases can be a hindrance, I have also been taught that the later generation of lenses and later VR systems this is all irrelevant.
I have also been taught to turn of the VR when on a Tri Pod, I have since found out that the 300 2.8 VR II automatically senses if its on a tripod and god knows what it dose.
Summary, Unless I am shooting at very slow shutter speeds hand held I permanently leave the VR off.......
I welcome any updates LOL
I've had good luck shooting down to 1/250" with the 500 PF on the D5, D850 or D500. I've taken it down to 1/60" hand holding when I can brace myself against something solid but that's slower than I like to go for most wildlife subjects as many if not most twitch enough that their own motion becomes a problem when shooting that slow.
ruley74
Well-known member
Thanks, sounds quite similar to my limits for the 200-500.
I'm jealous @Ben Adler. Love the Japanese BBQ grills. Have to go visit my mates house for that. Of course I could get one but then I wouldn't have an excuse to go annoy my friends. 
Ado Wolf
Well-known member
I always keep VR ON on Sports mode, regardless of Speed, and even when mounted on a Monopod.
I find Sports easier to work with. You define where it is, which can't be said for Normal mode since sometimes it fights your motion / decides for you.
Only except to the rule is when it is on a Tripod / or when I do Fine Tuning that's when I turn it OFF.
I agree that sometimes turning it OFF at high speeds has a slight advantage.. but I rather avoid the hassle of switching ON and OFF and just shoot 2 more frames and get the best pick.
I find Sports easier to work with. You define where it is, which can't be said for Normal mode since sometimes it fights your motion / decides for you.
Only except to the rule is when it is on a Tripod / or when I do Fine Tuning that's when I turn it OFF.
I agree that sometimes turning it OFF at high speeds has a slight advantage.. but I rather avoid the hassle of switching ON and OFF and just shoot 2 more frames and get the best pick.