Nikon 600mm F/4 E FL front glass issue

[ilanifer]

Hello,
I have recently purchased a used Nikon 600mm F/4 E FL lens at a local photography store.
They also gave me a 3 months warranty so I was happy with the price and purchase - The lens looked in nice condition, almost perfectly clean body and the only scratched part was the hood attachment points. The glasses, front and rear looked very clean.
At first, I was so excited about this exotic lens that I must have ignored a little movement of the front glass as I was cleaning it but now, a month later, I have became aware of little movements from side to side that clicks when I rub it with a cloth.
So I took the lens to the store for repair.
A day after, they have called me on the phone and said they consulted with their lab and that they didn't even had to take it there because the solution was simple: "It happens that the front glass becomes a bit loose over time, so you have to turn it clockwise with a cloth and this action will tighten it... that's all you have to do.."

Have anyone encountered this issue?
Is that really what caused the problem?

Thanks

 

[TR14]

I have not had any experiences with this. But it if this is normal then how good could the weather sealing be? If the glass was turned in the lens body and then got tighter wouldn't that indicate that there is a slight gap between the lens and body somewhere do to loose tolerances and/or something not being exactly round?

 

[ilanifer]

I have not had any experiences with this. But it if this is normal then how good could the weather sealing be? If the glass was turned in the lens body and then got tighter wouldn't that indicate that there is a slight gap between the lens and body somewhere do to loose tolerances and/or something not being exactly round?

Thanks!
I don't know much of the lens internal but mybe it is a mechanism that gets tightened when turning clockwise direction?

 

[Elbert]

This is weird, frankly I’ve never heard this for photographic lenses. For astronomical telescopes sometimes a lens must be a tiny bit loose in its cell to avoid deformation when it expands thermally. To me this sounds fishy. Perhaps you could reach out to Roger Cicala at lensrentals. They take apart lenses all the time I am sure he would know.

 

[mdirvin]

I have had mine for 4 + years, just checked the front element, solid with no movement at all..

 

[aolander]

It would seem unlikely that the element itself can be "threaded" back into place. More likely a retaining ring that becomes loose.

 

[ilanifer]

It would seem unlikely that the element itself can be "threaded" back into place. More likely a retaining ring that becomes loose.

They used exactly this term, "Retaining ring"... does is make more sense ? I just don't know how to deal with that.. is it a deal breaker or can I continue and use it like ever before?

 

[aolander]

They used exactly this term, "Retaining ring"... does is make more sense ? I just don't know how to deal with that.. is it a deal breaker or can I continue and use it like ever before?

A spanner wrench that fit the small slots in the retaining ring would be used to tighten it. I don't think trying to tighten it by rotating the element with a lens cloth would be sufficient. Plus you could accidentally scratch the surface. I would have it looked at by a repair person. It would be an easy fix with the correct tool.

 

[DRwyoming]

They used exactly this term, "Retaining ring"... does is make more sense ?

Yes, typically the front element of a lens is secured in place with a thin ring that screws into the lens body. If that gets loose the front element gets loose. I wouldn't try to tighten it yourself as you really want the correct tool. That said, it's not a complicated tool and a repair shop that works on lenses should have the tool though in fairness a lot of camera and lens repair shops don't frequently work on a 600mm f/4 which has a very large front element and needs a correspondingly large diameter spanner (or one that can be adjusted to large sizes) to tighten the retaining ring.

There are different spanner designs but the tool generally looks something like this with one or two crossbars but for a 600mm f/4 it has to have an extra long crossbar to span such a large diameter.

 

[Warren D]

Just behind the rubber protector is a ring with slots in for a spanner. That would be the retainer for the lens element that would be tightened by rotating clockwise. Turn the lens element won't do a thing to tighten it unless somehow the retainer ring is glued to the front lens element. If it's still in the warranty period, they should have it fixed or re-imburse you for sending it to Nikon to be fixed. I'd be going after the dealer, sounds like it's someone I wouldn't do business with again.
As for their claim, I've had mine over 5 years and the front element isn't loose.

 

[Catalog]

The fact that it is loose is a concern for me, and it points to something having happened to make it loose and it needs checking by Nikon.

 

[ilanifer]

The fact that it is loose is a concern for me, and it points to something having happened to make it loose and it needs checking by Nikon.

That's where I am!
But people here are talking about this tool, the spanner, and it looks like a lab that has this tool could fix the problem.. so maybe it's not that bad ?...

 

[bleirer]

Given Dave's explanation, the camera store idea might not be that crazy. Assuming there is a rubber gasket or two between the glass, the barrel, and or the retaining ring then twisting the glass might have enough friction to drag the retaining ring along for the ride, righty-tighty. If it were a cheapo lens I might be tempted to screw with it, either looking for a spanner at harbor freight or whatever or even fabricating one.

But why mess with an expensive lens? And whenever you have soft focus or camera shake or atmospherics you will have that nag in the back of your mind that the lens is really at fault. I'd take it back if you can, or at least have Nikon check it out.

 

[aolander]

That's where I am!
But people here are talking about this tool, the spanner, and it looks like a lab that has this tool could fix the problem.. so maybe it's not that bad ?...

Any camera repair service would have a spanner wrench. Not sure what your hesitation is, but if it's going to bug you, take it back.

 

[ilanifer]

Ok. I understand the situation much better now thanks to you friends. I am going to ask the store to send it to the lab and to have them tighten the lens with a spanner. I will update. Thank you !

 

[Mark Garfinkel]

Take it back and don't look back. have it check it and repaired properly.

 

[Warren D]

I think this points out the issue with 3rd party warranties; who does the warranty repair? Many of Nikon's current offerings, including most of the pro-level gear, can only be repaired by Nikon. Store warranties may be with a local repair that isn't authorized by Nikon and might result in the gear having to be sent to Nikon at the expense of the local repair (which may or may not be covered by the warranty). From what the OP is saying, I get the feeling this is all about money on the part of the dealer/repair facility. Maybe they know how to do the repair but don't have to tool, maybe they don't want the expense of shipping, maybe they would have to send it to Nikon for repair and don't want the expense.
If it were me, I'd contact the dealer and tell them I want it repaired by Nikon. I'd offer to send it to Nikon myself and then apply to the dealer for re-imbursement. If the dealer balks or declines, I'd send it to Nikon myself and eat the repair charges (assuming a loose front element is all that is wrong). I'd also never do business with that dealer again.
The outer front element is basically protective and is easy to replace by design.

 

[ilanifer]

I think this points out the issue with 3rd party warranties; who does the warranty repair? Many of Nikon's current offerings, including most of the pro-level gear, can only be repaired by Nikon. Store warranties may be with a local repair that isn't authorized by Nikon and might result in the gear having to be sent to Nikon at the expense of the local repair (which may or may not be covered by the warranty). From what the OP is saying, I get the feeling this is all about money on the part of the dealer/repair facility. Maybe they know how to do the repair but don't have to tool, maybe they don't want the expense of shipping, maybe they would have to send it to Nikon for repair and don't want the expense.
If it were me, I'd contact the dealer and tell them I want it repaired by Nikon. I'd offer to send it to Nikon myself and then apply to the dealer for re-imbursement. If the dealer balks or declines, I'd send it to Nikon myself and eat the repair charges (assuming a loose front element is all that is wrong). I'd also never do business with that dealer again.
The outer front element is basically protective and is easy to replace by design.

I wanted the camera store to do so, send it to Nikon local lab but they refused saying the cost will be "not worth it" - a third of the money I paid this 2nd hand lens: About $2000 !! This is their estimation of the charge for opening , cleaning, tightening and replacing parts if needed...
I don't know if it is so or they just said that to make me back off...
I think I am still in a position of asking my money back and return this beautiful lens as I think I will not trust it anymore..
Do you think I should return it to them
Or
Maybe this lens is so amazing that it worth keeping it even at a potential cost of more $2000 (it had cost me ($5800)
Confused....

 

[EricBowles]

They used exactly this term, "Retaining ring"... does is make more sense ? I just don't know how to deal with that.. is it a deal breaker or can I continue and use it like ever before?

Yes - it makes sense.

Many lenses - and filters - have very thin metal rings that screw in using the filter threads to hold the front element in place. My older Nikon 6T close up lens had this issue - and it was easily fixed by using a cloth and screwing it in tightly.

My experience with Nikon long lenses is repairs are far less than the amount you mentioned. Sure - dismantling the lens can take time and be expensive - but I've never heard of a $2000 repair to a lens. Most repairs I'd experienced were in the $300-700 range and that included parts. If it's just a retaining ring or something simple like a loose front element, it would be relatively inexpensive.

Be sure you have insurance on your gear that covers shipping. IT gets expensive if you have to pay for third party insurance - probably $70-100 for this one time. Insuring the cost of the lens in the US would typically cost about that for the entire year covering all potential casualty losses - theft, dropping, etc.

 

[Warren D]

I wanted the camera store to do so, send it to Nikon local lab but they refused saying the cost will be "not worthy" - a third of the money I paid this 2nd hand lens: About $2000 !! This is their estimation for the charge for opening , cleaning, tightening and replacing parts if needed...
I don't know if it is so or they just said that to make me back off...
I think I am still in a position of asking my money back and return this beautiful lens as I think I will not trust it anymore..
Do you think I should return it to them
Or
Maybe this lens is so amazing that it worth keeping it even at a potential cost of more $2000 (it had cost me ($5800)
Confused....

Hmm, it's starting to look like the dealer knows something and/or is trying to hide something. At this point, I'd be looking to return the lens and get a refund. However, I suspect they will likely turn it back on you and say it was fine when they sold it to you; the month you had it makes it hard to prove it was like that when you took delivery. I'd push the warranty issue, it's not your fault they might lose some money. If the dealer is concerned about their reputation, as they should be, they will make it right. In the end, I suspect you are stuck and if so, I'd send it to Nikon for check and repair of the loose front element. If it's Nikon USA, they won't return it to you unless it's in good working order. You always have the right to refuse an estimate.
If in the USA, KEH or another authorized service center might be able to tighten the loose element, would be worth a phone call.
Good luck!

 

[ilanifer]

.

 

[ilanifer]

Yes - it makes sense.

Many lenses - and filters - have very thin metal rings that screw in using the filter threads to hold the front element in place. My older Nikon 6T close up lens had this issue - and it was easily fixed by using a cloth and screwing it in tightly.

My experience with Nikon long lenses is repairs are far less than the amount you mentioned. Sure - dismantling the lens can take time and be expensive - but I've never heard of a $2000 repair to a lens. Most repairs I'd experienced were in the $300-700 range and that included parts. If it's just a retaining ring or something simple like a loose front element, it would be relatively inexpensive.

Be sure you have insurance on your gear that covers shipping. IT gets expensive if you have to pay for third party insurance - probably $70-100 for this one time. Insuring the cost of the lens in the US would typically cost about that for the entire year covering all potential casualty losses - theft, dropping, etc.

I'm very happy for what you say here! It gives me a bit of perspective - so it is not so worse situation..

If I will take the lens to local Nikon authorized store in my city they will send it to Nikon authorized lab, here in my country so I think they have insurance for delivering it. I will ask anyway

 

[EricBowles]

I'm very happy for what you say here! It gives me a bit of perspective - so it is not so worse situation..

If I will take the lens to local Nikon authorized store in my city they will send it to Nikon autho6 lab, here in my country so I think they have insurance for delivering it. I will ask anyway

I used to take my gear to an authorized repair shop for exactly that reason - they handled insurance and shipping cost when things needed to go to Nikon.

 

[ilanifer]

Hmm, it's starting to look like the dealer knows something and/or is trying to hide something. At this point, I'd be looking to return the lens and get a refund. However, I suspect they will likely turn it back on you and say it was fine when they sold it to you; the month you had it makes it hard to prove it was like that when you took delivery. I'd push the warranty issue, it's not your fault they might lose some money. If the dealer is concerned about their reputation, as they should be, they will make it right. In the end, I suspect you are stuck and if so, I'd send it to Nikon for check and repair of the loose front element. If it's Nikon USA, they won't return it to you unless it's in good working order. You always have the right to refuse an estimate.
If in the USA, KEH or another authorized service center might be able to tighten the loose element, would be worth a phone call.
Good luck!

I live in Israel- they have a local Nikon authorized lab here.
Well, chances are 50/50 - maybe the store will have it back (they have a very good reputation )
Or
I will have to take care of the lens myself....
In the case they will agree to take it back and refund me, do you think it's the best choice or maybe keep the lens and send it myself to Nikon ?

 

[ilanifer]

I used to take my gear to an authorized repair shop for exactly that reason - they handled insurance and shipping cost when things needed to go to Nikon.

Thanks