Nikon Faithful

[Roaring 40s]

But the Z6II and Z7II included virtually every feature customers said were missing from the Z6/7. It's hard to say Nikon is not listening. But they don't intend to be all things to all people. People ask for some crazy things, and people usually are slow to respond to change - even if the change has a good reason.

Nikon's core business strategy is technology driven camera and optical company. They are not customer centric - they are technology centric. They do not have a strategy of being the low cost provider either. These core strategies are important and companies that try to straddle the fence between two options almost always fail.

Nikon has established a focus on the Enthusiast and Pro segments - with a plan that 90% of cameras and lenses will be sold to those segments. The lenses are outstanding and affordable. The low end camera segment is the one that has declined the most - to the point where it lacks the scale to be profitable. Nikon's Z50 is a good camera - and many people who use it for travel or casual use also have a full frame camera.

The Z6 I & 7 I were a generation behind and disappointed even Nikon loyalists. Which customers was Nikon listening to?
It was either complacent or had decided not to cannibilise its DSLR sales.

 

[Roaring 40s]

I would think if you journal your trial of Sony coming from another system, in this case Nikon as very interesting to many! Look at how popular of a discussion the Sh*t just got real thread is. Many of us are in the same boat. Do we stay with Nikon, do we try another brand, do we go all in and switch? It would be very interesting and educational to go along with your journey. What you like, don't like, initial impressions, the contrast and compare from an experienced wildlife photographer. I don't think anyone else out there has done it with wildlife as the focus.

This may be of use to you...
https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/sony-a9-and-nikon-d500-for-bird-photography.4731/

 

[Steve]

I would think if you journal your trial of Sony coming from another system, in this case Nikon as very interesting to many! Look at how popular of a discussion the Sh*t just got real thread is. Many of us are in the same boat. Do we stay with Nikon, do we try another brand, do we go all in and switch? It would be very interesting and educational to go along with your journey. What you like, don't like, initial impressions, the contrast and compare from an experienced wildlife photographer. I don't think anyone else out there has done it with wildlife as the focus. I think it is healthy for all of us to be open minded, willing to learn, understand that each system has its pros and cons and by seeing how this applies to wildlife it helps us make a more informed decision on what is best for us to individually do. I noticed some a9 images you posted the other day and I think it is the first ones I have seen you post from the Sony system and they were amazing!

LOL, that's a youtube minefield! Not sure I want to go there.

 

[Steve]

Steve.Can we preorder your BIF ebook

Thanks I usually don't do pre-orders though, the second I would start getting orders without a product it would stress me out.

The draft is done - as are some of the first read-throughs - so it's probably another month of editing at least.

 

[Ad Astra]

@Steve, very interested to hear about your new ebook being planned. Will certainly buy it when it comes out as I have so much to learn about bird in flight photography. It is such a hard topic to get good photos consistently and I don't blame my gear. I think you will have a popular item in your store.

 

[JP Onstwedder]

The Z6 I & 7 I were a generation behind and disappointed even Nikon loyalists. Which customers was Nikon listening to?
It was either complacent or had decided not to cannibilise its DSLR sales.

I have to disagree. The Z7 works very well for me (but I don’t do much BIF). Excellent imagery quality, easy to use if you’re used to Nikon, usefully smaller and lighter than a D850, great lenses. The rear LCD is great, viewfinder perfectly usable and with some real benefits over an OVF.

 

[Roaring 40s]

I have to disagree. The Z7 works very well for me (but I don’t do much BIF). Excellent imagery quality, easy to use if you’re used to Nikon, usefully smaller and lighter than a D850, great lenses. The rear LCD is great, viewfinder perfectly usable and with some real benefits over an OVF.

What a mirrorless user might have expected, like me, is that they capitalised on the potential of mirrorless tech: 10-20 fps without blackout or slide-show; burst caching; focus stacking. Those were available eg in the Panasonic G9 which was released in 2017 IIRC. Add those features to Nikon's best AF preferably in modes like the D500's to ease the transition for established Nikon users. So for me the first Z's fell well short of the potential that the competition was already exploiting and I wasn't going to invest thousands in a system that was a generation behind.

 

[Whiskeyman]

Ahhhh,... the age old question of which is better; the chicken or the egg!

This whole thread makes me ask how long before the situation changes and there is another system rabbit hole to run down. While this is a great converstion, it is one we've heard before, and will likely hear again numerous times. For me, it is something to experience vicariously; for to do otherwise, I'd have to work for years after I die to pay for it all.

W

 

[StefanSC]

What a mirrorless user might have expected, like me, is that they capitalised on the potential of mirrorless tech: 10-20 fps without blackout or slide-show; burst caching; focus stacking. Those were available eg in the Panasonic G9 which was released in 2017 IIRC. Add those features to Nikon's best AF preferably in modes like the D500's to ease the transition for established Nikon users. So for me the first Z's fell well short of the potential that the competition was already exploiting and I wasn't going to invest thousands in a system that was a generation behind.

Just a few side-notes:

AFAIK, high-speed shooting without blackout or slide-show is something only the A9s really do currently (and the soon to be released A1). The G9 does not do that.
Speaking of the G9, keep in mind that it has a sensor that is a quarter of the area of a Z6 and less megapixels than the Z6.
Also, most of the features that capitalize on the mirrorless potential of the G9 are:
a) Half-baked (e.g: focus stacking is actually a JPEG from a short clip, burst caching comes with some compromises regarding AF-C and buffer if you shoot RAW and so on). You'd need to get an Olympus E-M1 mk 2 to get the better version of those and that camera cost nearly as much as a Z6 at launch (again, with a quarter area sensor).
b) Not found on any full-frame mirrorless to this day.

 

[JP Onstwedder]

What a mirrorless user might have expected, like me, is that they capitalised on the potential of mirrorless tech: 10-20 fps without blackout or slide-show; burst caching; focus stacking. Those were available eg in the Panasonic G9 which was released in 2017 IIRC. Add those features to Nikon's best AF preferably in modes like the D500's to ease the transition for established Nikon users. So for me the first Z's fell well short of the potential that the competition was already exploiting and I wasn't going to invest thousands in a system that was a generation behind.

I rather like the focus stacking on the Z7; burst mode and high frame rates don’t matter that much to me. The point being that different expectations are ok.

 

[Bristolian]

I have been a Nikon faithful from the day I bought my first DSLR back in 2008. So far the brand has not let me down so why would I look elsewhere?

I don't hanker after the latest and greatest camera (or any other kind of gadget). There's no point as a few months later something else (supposedly) better comes along and the process starts again.

 

[fcotterill]

I keep an eye on the L Alliance, more out of interest. Highly hypothetically speaking, with a lottery win banked, a Leica SL2 and choice primes is an attractive thought

But it will always be Nikon - as I started in 1984 with a FM2 and then F3 (still have the F3 bought Used in 1990 from a store in Burgess Hill). And a couple of my AIS primes from the 1980s still see action on DSLRs. It would be nice to get the full functionality on a Z camera with these and also a couple of everlasting AFD Nikkors.

I have been a Nikon faithful from the day I bought my first DSLR back in 2008. So far the brand has not let me down so why would I look elsewhere?

I don't hanker after the latest and greatest camera (or any other kind of gadget). There's no point as a few months later something else (supposedly) better comes along and the process starts again.

 

[Dummy]

I have been a Nikon faithful from the day I bought my first DSLR back in 2008. So far the brand has not let me down so why would I look elsewhere?

I don't hanker after the latest and greatest camera (or any other kind of gadget). There's no point as a few months later something else (supposedly) better comes along and the process starts again.

I have got and use my Pentax spotmatic I brought in 1970 and have a Nikon D7000 and i like your thoughts

 

[Doug Herr]

For those who would be perfectly happy keeping their equipment that was made by a company that is no longer in business (applies to any product, any brand), one thing to keep in mind is parts & service. The final straw for my previous camera system was the supply of new batteries. I had located an independent source of rebuilt batteries once the manufacturer quit making them but from a business perspective relying on a single small supplier of a critical component is very risky.

 

[BruceJ]

To me it is not about the manufacturer, its about the product that fits my needs and budget. After all the camera and lenses are just tools and learning to use your tools effectively to achieve what you want is more important than the gadgetry. We tend to chase technology for incremental improvements at the expense of our return of investment, in other words what can this new camera or lens do for you that you can not do with your existing equipment. I like the Z cameras not for the cameras themselves, but for the lenses which I consider superior to the G and E lenses that I have, but my DSLR's still give me images I am proud of, therefor I don't consider this chasing technology.

 

[Adam]

Depends on how deep a person is into the system, and if you feel like what you have now does what you need it to. If the camera and lenses you have do what you need them to, Nikon could go bankrupt tomorrow and it wouldn't matter one bit. If it isn't and you have the money, go for it make the change if you want. My experience has been that changing brands is usually as waste of time and money, they aren't that different.

I couldn't of put it better. I'm happy with what I have, I don't need to change, it gives me exactly what I need. Luckily, because I can't afford to change systems, if I could, I wouldn't. Nikon for me.

 

[Roaring 40s]

Just a few side-notes:

AFAIK, high-speed shooting without blackout or slide-show is something only the A9s really do currently (and the soon to be released A1). The G9 does not do that.
Speaking of the G9, keep in mind that it has a sensor that is a quarter of the area of a Z6 and less megapixels than the Z6.
Also, most of the features that capitalize on the mirrorless potential of the G9 are:
a) Half-baked (e.g: focus stacking is actually a JPEG from a short clip, burst caching comes with some compromises regarding AF-C and buffer if you shoot RAW and so on). You'd need to get an Olympus E-M1 mk 2 to get the better version of those and that camera cost nearly as much as a Z6 at launch (again, with a quarter area sensor).
b) Not found on any full-frame mirrorless to this day.

I shot with a G9 for 2 years.
At high fps you'd be seeing the frame just shot. How many people have reaction times faster than 1/20s? The shift of the subject in the frame was no more than what VR produces.
Re your (a): it worked perfectly well; typically you're shooting macro with controlled light anyway.
burst caching comes with some compromises regarding AF-C and buffer if you shoot RAW and so on - And what are they?
The G9 gives you the option to use 6K and extract 18 mp frames or buffer 0.4 s of RAW images at 20 fps. In 6K mode you can fill the card if you want or run a 2 s loop at 30 fps.
The signal benefit of mirrorless is bursts without slide-show or blackout. Panasonic and Olympus could manage it with M43, Fuji could manage it with APS-C, Sony could manage it with FF while Nikon decided its loyalists wouldn't care.

 

[PeggyBaker]

I'd jump to Sony in a heartbeat, if someone would just front me the $20k to replace my D850 and all the glass with Sony. Not a problem I will have to face in the near future. Just had to buy a new refrigerator, with 0MP sensor and 0FPS.

 

[geoawelch]

Switching systems is always a tough call, worse when you’re heavily invested in good glass. If you have that much cash to burn and see Sony etc as your future, then jump right in.
Fact of the matter is that Nikon makes some very very good lenses and the current crop of cameras is well resolved. Is the Z7II as good as a Sony, maybe not but then my daily drive isn’t a Porsche or Ferrari either. Question is really do you need what’s on offer or simply want it?
We used to think that 5 frames per second was blazing. Now 10 - 14 FPS is pretty common. If you’re not getting what you want at 10 fos, I’m not sure 20 FPS will make much difference. You need to ask yourself, are my skills and needs such that you’re being limited by the equipment or am I still the limiting factor.
Some people are hung up on the size of mirrorless compared to DSLR. I cast my mind back to mobile phones. The early generation phones were large, bulky things. Phones got progressively smaller until they were hard to operate and battery life became an issue. Take a look at cell phones now... they get bigger and bigger with each subsequent iteration.

What I want is a silent camera that focuses for all uses on par with Sony/Canon. Unfortunately for me, Nikon Mirrorless is not fitting the bill. I gave the Z6 a great chance and ended up selling it. I still have a D500, 300PF and 1.4 TC.

Cheers,

George

 

[fcotterill]

The latest indicators for Nikon's business is promising, notably their latest quarterly fiscal report.

Financial Results and Presentation Materials | IR Documents | Nikon About Us

Financial Results and Presentation Materials are listed

www.nikon.com

Nikon Q3 financial results are out: "record quarterly sales for mirrorless cameras" - Nikon Rumors

Today Nikon released their Q3 financial results. Here is a recap for the Imaging Business: Record quarterly sales for mirrorless cameras. Deficit is shrank despite decline in revenue. Segment was profitable in real terms, excluding factors such as restructuring relevant expenses Brisk sales of...

nikonrumors.com

Of allied interest - despite the shrinkage in sales volume, compared to previous years Nikon has significantly increased expenditure on R&D: approximately doubling what CaSony spend. Here's an excerpt from an interesting comment to the NR article by one Eamon Hickey: "....R&D expenditures as a percentage of revenue. It can tell a few different stories, but for the purposes of this post I'll just say that it's one indication of how strongly a company is investing in a particular business.

In electronics businesses, a percentage of around 7-10% of revenue is pretty standard. That's what most companies invest in the future products for their businesses, most of the time.

Nikon will spend 14.5% of camera division revenue on camera division R&D this fiscal year.....In 2020, Canon spent 7.3% of Imaging business revenue on R&D....In 2019 (the most recent year I could find figures), Sony spent 7.3% of its Electronics division revenue on R&D."

 

[JAS]

I love my Nikons. From the F100, D3500, D600(IR), D750 and Z6, a Nikon1 J5 and J3, plus over 20 lenses including over $10K of the lenses purchased in the past 18 months.
The Nikons feel great in my hands and I know them well. The bigger models feel better in my oversized hands but I don't need the pixels of the D850 or the cost of the D6. I am close to 70 with physical limitations and my gear works for me.

The resale value of my gear is significantly less than the cost of equal quality replacements. If you feel the need to switch, do so, but make sure you know why! The gear I currently have is better and has more capability than I do, so I get to learn and use. This last statement applies to most of us whether we want to admit so or not. Nikon will be around after I am gone and my grandkids can use my leftover gear. In fact, one of them is now using a D90 from 2009 for her college photo classes and doing quite well.

Just go out and shoot because you love it. The gear is just one of the ways to have that fun.

 

[Steve]

The latest indicators for Nikon's business is promising, notably their latest quarterly fiscal report.

Financial Results and Presentation Materials | IR Documents | Nikon About Us

Financial Results and Presentation Materials are listed

www.nikon.com

Nikon Q3 financial results are out: "record quarterly sales for mirrorless cameras" - Nikon Rumors

Today Nikon released their Q3 financial results. Here is a recap for the Imaging Business: Record quarterly sales for mirrorless cameras. Deficit is shrank despite decline in revenue. Segment was profitable in real terms, excluding factors such as restructuring relevant expenses Brisk sales of...

nikonrumors.com

Of allied interest - despite the shrinkage in sales volume, compared to previous years Nikon has significantly increased expenditure on R&D: approximately doubling what CaSony spend. Here's an excerpt from an interesting comment to the NR article by one Eamon Hickey: "....R&D expenditures as a percentage of revenue. It can tell a few different stories, but for the purposes of this post I'll just say that it's one indication of how strongly a company is investing in a particular business.

In electronics businesses, a percentage of around 7-10% of revenue is pretty standard. That's what most companies invest in the future products for their businesses, most of the time.

Nikon will spend 14.5% of camera division revenue on camera division R&D this fiscal year.....In 2020, Canon spent 7.3% of Imaging business revenue on R&D....In 2019 (the most recent year I could find figures), Sony spent 7.3% of its Electronics division revenue on R&D."

I get the feeling Nikon is starting to resent the idea that they are too far behind. I have a feeling (at least I hope) they might have another D3 moment in the works.

 

[FB101]

I get the feeling Nikon is starting to resent the idea that they are too far behind. I have a feeling (at least I hope) they might have another D3 moment in the works.

I hope so, and it may be as much about survival as it is about pride. It's not like they lack the engineering chops - we know that - so I sure hope their leadership feels embarrassed enough to let their teams loose a bit.

 

[fcotterill]

Best to wait for the next wave of bleeding-edge cameras to not only appear but smooth out their wrinkles... And there's little if anything more to add to what is well established about Nikon's strengths and foibles. Whether NR is correct, or not... I suspect Thom has the most reliable information of anyone on anything pending from Nikon. Indeed, it seems highly likely Nikon will deliver interesting new products later this year:

"... I've written it before and I don't think anything has changed: Nikon is a really good engineering company. Maybe one of if not the best in terms of optics and hardware. But they're managed by engineers, they're as good at marketing and messaging as engineers are (which is to say "not"), and they run their organization and its product development like engineers. Quite literally, they work at their own pace with their own goals, and every now and then we get the benefits of that. ..."

I hope so, and it may be as much about survival as it is about pride. It's not like they lack the engineering chops - we know that - so I sure hope their leadership feels embarrassed enough to let their teams loose a bit.

 

[Ad Astra]

Good news that we have official confirmation on the Nikon Z 9 will be released in 2021. Something to warm Steve on his recovery.

Odd it was not annouced at CP+ and we have to wait now for the full specs.

https://www.nikon.co.uk/en_GB/news_...nounces-development-of-z-9&Category=&Section=