Nikon FTZ Adapter

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flyguy

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Does this adapter really deliver, I am a skeptic. Is this the weak link in Nikon's Z cameras? I use both a Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 non VR and 70-200 f/2.8, use them on both a Nikon crop sensor body and full frame body. Is image quality influenced at all by having to use the adapter on a Z body?
 
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flyguy said:
Is image quality influenced at all by having to use the adapter on a Z body?
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Image quality is not influenced at all. The FTZ adapter is the same as a macro extension tube and has no glass in it at all, it's just a hollow tube that sets the F lenses at the correct distance from the mirrorless sensor.

There is apparently an impact on AF system performance when using the FTZ adapter with F lenses but there is no impact on IQ. Your 24-70 and 70-200 will deliver fine IQ on a Z body.
 
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Although I am not an owner I have researched plenty and my understanding is that image quality is generally not effected however focus speed and focus lock is slowed down a bit. I would guess it holds true as if using a DSLR that the newer the lens model the focus speed may not loose as much as an older lens. Also, since both of the lens you mentioned are of the f2.8 variety that will also help as opposed to a lens with f5.6 which is already noticeably slower. If shooting static objects or landscapes or people probably not an issue compared to sports or wildlife action or birds in flight photography, where it would likely be a noticeable difference. Just my 2 cents and I am sure others who actually own can relate their actual experiences.
 
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I actually think the FTZ is one of the strengths of the Z system, at least for those of us with F mount Nikon lenses. Almost all Nikon lenses will work with a Z body and the FTZ. Of course screw drive lenses will not auto-focus, as there is no screw drive motor in the FTZ; they can be used in manual focus.

As DR says, optical quality is the same as on your DSLRs, at least with comparable sensors (e.g., D850 and Z7 or D780 and Z6).

I have used my 500 mm PF (with and without a 1.4x TCIII); 300 mm PF; 70-300 AF-P FX; 70-200 f2.8E FL; and 19 mm PCE (manual focus, of course) extensively on my Z7 and Z6. I find they work very well on the Z bodies with the FTZ. I have not noticed any issues with slower focus (except with birds in flight), although I have not run any comparative tests. I mostly shoot birds and other wildlife, landscapes, travel and family events. Except for the 19 mm PCE, I mostly use the native Z mount lenses at shorter focal lengths.

While decent, the Z bodies (so far, anyway) are not as good as the D500, D850, D5/6 for birds in flight or other very fast action. I think this is attributable to the autofocus system of the Zs, not the FTZ. Hope it will be better in the Z7II and Z6II.

Finally, I would note that I find autofocus is better for me on my Z7 and Z6 for stationary or slowly moving subjects than with my DSLRs. Not sure exactly why, but I think the difference is there. Because focus points cover almost the entire frame? Less or no need to tune autofocus? Some other advantage of on sensor focusing?

If you have manual focus lenses, I think you will find they are easier to focus on the Z bodies, given focus peaking and in viewfinder magnification. I prefer my Z7 to my D850 when using the 19 mm PCE.
 
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Like BillW stated above I don't think for what you are shooting you will have any issue. Additionally I will bet that the newer Z6/Z7 markII's will offer even better performance with or without the adapter.
 
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BillW said:
Finally, I would note that I find autofocus is better for me on my Z7 and Z6 for stationary or slowly moving subjects than with my DSLRs. Not sure exactly why, but I think the difference is there. Because focus points cover almost the entire frame? Less or no need to tune autofocus? Some other advantage of on sensor focusing?

If you have manual focus lenses, I think you will find they are easier to focus on the Z bodies, given focus peaking and in viewfinder magnification. I prefer my Z7 to my D850 when using the 19 mm PCE.
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The autofocus accuracy of the Z cameras is better than the DSLR's because of the different, more accurate hybrid AF system employed in the Z cameras. For this reason I find my images are slightly sharper with the same lens on the Z6 (through the FTZ adapter) versus on the D7500.
 
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I have sold most of my Nikon DSLR's (still have 2 D500's) and now shoot with 3 Z6 bodies for everything but birds in flight or when I need the DX crop.
I have one Z6 mounted to a 200-400VR and use a 2nd Z6 with the 70-200 E. The FTZ may reduce AF speed a bit, but I find that these lenses focus as fast as they would on a D810 or D750. The benefit lies in AF accuracy. Because I am using zoom lenses, I lose access to maximum quality on a DSLR because I fine-tune my lenses for the long end. The mirrorless bodies focus these lenses accurately throughout the zoom range.
As long as I do my part, the Z6 + FTZ do their's... This will be the first winter where I commit to the Z bodies... I am curious as to how they will perform as the temperatures dip into the negatives.

cheers,
bruce
 
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That's kind of my dilemma. I want to purchase a D850 now as I don't feel mirrorless is for me right now at this time and I need to purchase some F mount lenses. I was looking to purchase the Tamron 15-30 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and for wildlife Nikon 200-500. I don't want to have to buy all z lenses when I eventually move over as that is a lot of money to spend again. SO I'm hoping the FTZ adapter works well. I understand AF will suffer a little but for those lenses excluding the 200-500 I'll shoot landscapes. I'm just not sure I'm making the right decision.
 
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My experience echos the posts above. The FTZ doesn't hurt the lens optically at all. However, it does slow AF down - but for landscapes, it's a non-issue.
 
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flyguy said:
Does this adapter really deliver, I am a skeptic. Is this the weak link in Nikon's Z cameras? I use both a Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 non VR and 70-200 f/2.8, use them on both a Nikon crop sensor body and full frame body. Is image quality influenced at all by having to use the adapter on a Z body?
Click to expand...

The FTZ is outstanding. My experience is the FTZ can make a lens perform better on a Z camera. I had been using the 70-200 f/2.8 VRII on my Z6 with the FTZ. Results were consistent - sharp, fast, accurate. Then my D850 was getting lonely, so I used the same lens on that camera. I had over 500 images that were all backfocused about 4 inches. I confirmed the AF error with testing, and sent the lens for repair. With the Z6 and FTZ - AF was accurate every time. The lens needed repair - an adjustment by Nikon to be accurate with my D850. Once the lens was repaired, AF was about the same on my D850 and Z6. For me, the 70-200 f/2.8 is my favorite lens, and with the FTZ it is still outstanding.

I don't know that the 24-70 f/2.8 non-VR is worth building a kit around. The Z 24-70 f/4 S is sharper than the F-mount G version - especially toward the corners. The Z lenses are as good or better than F-mount primes - and better than that zoom.

I don't see the FTZ as a weak spot in any way. Once you are comfortable with the FTZ, you just pick the lens for the job. I have no problem using the FTZ and any lens I own, but there are a few cases where the Z lenses are just newer and better. The FTZ is just a spacer. It was designed to let lenses operate on the Z cameras without any issues. The distance of the rear element to the sensor with the FTZ is the same as on a DSLR. I do think newer lenses work a little better with both the FTZ and with the F-mount teleconverters - lenses like the 300 PF and 500 PF focus faster than an older 300 f/4 AFS.
 
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Steve said:
My experience echos the posts above. The FTZ doesn't hurt the lens optically at all. However, it does slow AF down - but for landscapes, it's a non-issue.
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Do you think over time AF performance will increase when using F mount lens on the Z bodies with the FTZ adapter or is this just a thing we'll have to live with unless we upgrade to the newer lenses for the z
 
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blong10 said:
Do you think over time AF performance will increase when using F mount lens on the Z bodies with the FTZ adapter or is this just a thing we'll have to live with unless we upgrade to the newer lenses for the z
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I'd bet the AF performance through the FTZ adapter will improve with firmware releases and may have already done so in the pending Z6 II and Z7 II cameras. After all the focusing motor is inside the lens itself with AF-S lenses so the lack of speed almost certainly represents software processing inside the camera and likely represents a lack of processing horsepower which hopefully has been addressed with the dual Expeed processors in the new Z body releases.

It's also possible that the slower AF performance is related to control voltage/current limitations in the Z series cameras but that seems unlikely as the AF-S F mount lenses focus plenty fast on the D500 and D850 using basically the same batteries. But it is conceivable that there's something different in the focus motor power scheme that's different between the Z cameras and the DSLRs impacting AF performance but again if so I'd expect Nikon would have addressed that in the Z II releases while they were making hardware updates.
 
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My primary use of my Z6 has been sports with my 70-200f2.8 E FL and I have not had any issues with focusing speed. I cannot comment on BIF because I just don't shoot birds at all. I also shoot the 70-200 on my D500 and honestly, in my use I don't see any difference in the focusing speed between the D500 and the Z6 with FTZ.
 
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DRwyoming said:
I'd bet the AF performance through the FTZ adapter will improve with firmware releases and may have already done so in the pending Z6 II and Z7 II cameras. After all the focusing motor is inside the lens itself with AF-S lenses so the lack of speed almost certainly represents software processing inside the camera and likely represents a lack of processing horsepower which hopefully has been addressed with the dual Expeed processors in the new Z body releases.

It's also possible that the slower AF performance is related to control voltage/current limitations in the Z series cameras but that seems unlikely as the AF-S F mount lenses focus plenty fast on the D500 and D850 using basically the same batteries. But it is conceivable that there's something different in the focus motor power scheme that's different between the Z cameras and the DSLRs impacting AF performance but again if so I'd expect Nikon would have addressed that in the Z II releases while they were making hardware updates.
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I believe native Z-mount lenses use a different type of focuisng motor (called a stepping motor IIRC), so there is more speed differences with AF-S lenses than just firmware, the lenses motors do work differently. The AF-P Nikkors work that way as well, and there are some differences from the older SWM motors of the AF-S lenses. Of course we have no way to directly compare if the speed difference comes from the different motor types, since no AF-S and AF-P Nikkors share the same optics.
 
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JANuser said:
I believe native Z-mount lenses use a different type of focuisng motor (called a stepping motor IIRC), so there is more speed differences with AF-S lenses than just firmware, the lenses motors do work differently.
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Understood, but the question is why a lens that works fine on a DSLR loses AF performance on the Z body and that answer lies within the Z bodies hardware and software. Yes, the lens motors are different but Nikon should be able to achieve similar AF performance with an F mount AF-S lens mounted on a Z body and issues in that control loop lie within the Z body, most likely in firmware but as mentioned previously possibly in motor driving electronics both of which Nikon has had the opportunity to resolve with the Z II series.

IOW, it may not be possible for the F lenses and adapter to achieve identical AF performance to native S lenses on a Z camera but Nikon should be able to achieve equivalent performance to when the F lenses were mounted on DSLRs and the answer to that lies in the Z camera bodies.
 
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I mentioned the different types of motors becasue that would have an impact on how the lens focuses on the Z cameras. The Z bodies AF system is optimized to work with the Z lenses and the type of focus motors they use. Nikon switched to stepping motors because they work better with the contrast phase of AF than the SWM motors do, and if that really is the case we may never see the F-mount glass match what it can do on a DSLR. Maybe Nikon can do it anyway, but I wonder how much effort they are really putting into it, after all they want people to buy new Z-mount lenses, not keep old glass.
 
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One thing to add to the AF Speed discussion of AF lenses is that power and voltage are at least indirectly related to speed. The D6, D5, etc. cameras all use a larger battery - the EN-EL18c. That battery provides 10.8v and 2500 mAh power. The D850 and the Z6/7 cameras use the EN-EL15c providing 7.0v and 1900 mAh power.

The more powerful battery of the D6, D5, etc. cameras is a big part of how it achieves the faster AF and faster frame rate. The D5 AF speed is faster than the D850 and D500 - as well as the Z6/Z7. We have some F-mount cameras that can achieve a higher frame rate with the EN-EL18 battery than with the EN-EL15 battery. I don't know of any reason why AF speed could not also be increased with a more powerful battery if tht was an option.

When it comes to AF speed, the other factor is the specific lens design. Some lenses have a fast AF motor while others have a slower motor. Some lens designs require moving element groups a longer distance to change focus. If you want to compare AF speed of a high performance lens - like the 70-200 VRII or FL versions, the difference in speed between a D850 and Z6/7 is insignificant.
 
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BillW said:
I actually think the FTZ is one of the strengths of the Z system, at least for those of us with F mount Nikon lenses. Almost all Nikon lenses will work with a Z body and the FTZ. Of course screw drive lenses will not auto-focus, as there is no screw drive motor in the FTZ; they can be used in manual focus.

As DR says, optical quality is the same as on your DSLRs, at least with comparable sensors (e.g., D850 and Z7 or D780 and Z6).

I have used my 500 mm PF (with and without a 1.4x TCIII); 300 mm PF; 70-300 AF-P FX; 70-200 f2.8E FL; and 19 mm PCE (manual focus, of course) extensively on my Z7 and Z6. I find they work very well on the Z bodies with the FTZ. I have not noticed any issues with slower focus (except with birds in flight), although I have not run any comparative tests. I mostly shoot birds and other wildlife, landscapes, travel and family events. Except for the 19 mm PCE, I mostly use the native Z mount lenses at shorter focal lengths.

While decent, the Z bodies (so far, anyway) are not as good as the D500, D850, D5/6 for birds in flight or other very fast action. I think this is attributable to the autofocus system of the Zs, not the FTZ. Hope it will be better in the Z7II and Z6II.

Finally, I would note that I find autofocus is better for me on my Z7 and Z6 for stationary or slowly moving subjects than with my DSLRs. Not sure exactly why, but I think the difference is there. Because focus points cover almost the entire frame? Less or no need to tune autofocus? Some other advantage of on sensor focusing?

If you have manual focus lenses, I think you will find they are easier to focus on the Z bodies, given focus peaking and in viewfinder magnification. I prefer my Z7 to my D850 when using the 19 mm PCE.
Click to expand...
Some interesting observations and answers there. Thanks.
 
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Steve said:
My experience echos the posts above. The FTZ doesn't hurt the lens optically at all. However, it does slow AF down - but for landscapes, it's a non-issue.
Click to expand...

I often wonder WHY it affects AF... it not like it really has to do anything other than place the lens at correct distance and pass the signals from the camera to the lens... are they focusing the Z lens in a different way and they have to do some kind of conversion? I often wonder if Nikon does this on purpose.. just to try to increase sales.
 
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gordon_g said:
I often wonder WHY it affects AF... it not like it really has to do anything other than place the lens at correct distance and pass the signals from the camera to the lens... are they focusing the Z lens in a different way and they have to do some kind of conversion? I often wonder if Nikon does this on purpose.. just to try to increase sales.
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I'm really not sure TBH. Could be motors, software, or processing power. I'm hoping that the new cameras are faster. Like you say, I see no reason why the adapter should slow them down.
 
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As all have noted, there is no difference in optical quality. Is it possible that with the addition of the FTZ adapter and it's '11 electronic contact points' that this additional 'step' might create the minuscule lag in AF performance that is experienced?
 
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