Nikon missing the boat

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ronnie

ronnie

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Last year Canon came out with 600mm RF Lens and 800mm F11 RF Lens, both light weight and very affordable lens.

The Canon equivalent to the Z6ii is their R6 and with this 800mm F11 RF make a great combination. My regular birding partner has this Canon setup and i envy the reach he has with the 800mm lens.

Why has Nikon not come out with a similar lens to compliment their range?

I think Nikon has missed the boat.
 
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ronnie said:
Last year Canon came out with 600mm RF Lens and 800mm F11 RF Lens, both light weight and very affordable lens.

The Canon equivalent to the Z6ii is their R6 and with this 800mm F11 RF make a great combination. My regular birding partner has this Canon setup and i envy the reach he has with the 800mm lens.

Why has Nikon not come out with a similar lens to compliment their range?

I think Nikon has missed the boat.
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You have sales figures on those lenses?
 
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I would be happy to see Nikon make similar lenses and there would likely be a market for them.

At the same time, I have, and would rather have, Nikon’s 500 mm PF. While it is more expensive, it is also more versatile. It works great on the FTZ/FTZII on my Z9, Z7II, Z6II (and previously on my Z7 and Z6).

The 500 mm PF is 500 f5.6 on its own; with the 1.4x TCIII, it is 700 mm f8; with the 1.7x TCII, it is 850 mm f9.5; and with the 2x TCIII, it is 1000 mm f11. I have used the 500 mm PF with all 3 of these TCs and like the results on a Z body. The 1.4x TCIII gives the best IQ, but the other TCs are still quite good with the 500 mm PF and better, in may view, than cropping.

The 800 mm PF in Z mount is likely going to be fairly expensive. And aimed at a different market. The 400 mm PF in Z mount that is on the roadmap may have a wider appeal than the 800 mm PF. Hope Nikon gets it out soon.
 
BillW said:
I would be happy to see Nikon make similar lenses and there would likely be a market for them.

At the same time, I have, and would rather have, Nikon’s 500 mm PF. While it is more expensive, it is also more versatile. It works great on the FTZ/FTZII on my Z9, Z7II, Z6II (and previously on my Z7 and Z6).

The 500 mm PF is 500 f5.6 on its own; with the 1.4x TCIII, it is 700 mm f8; with the 1.7x TCII, it is 850 mm f9.5; and with the 2x TCIII, it is 1000 mm f11. I have used the 500 mm PF with all 3 of these TCs and like the results on a Z body. The 1.4x TCIII gives the best IQ, but the other TCs are still quite good with the 500 mm PF and better, in may view, than cropping.

The 800 mm PF in Z mount is likely going to be fairly expensive. And aimed at a different market. The 400 mm PF in Z mount is likely to have a wider appeal than the 800 mm PF. Hope Nikon gets it out soon.
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I think the main attraction to the Canon 800 is reach on a budget. At less than $1,000 It is a great lens "for the money" but if you look at sample shots there is definitely a hit in sharpness compared to more expensive and heavier options. It's not even in 500PF price range. Price and reach wise the 500PF might more be compared to the $3,000 RF 100-500. Put a 1.4x on that and it is surely sharper than the 800, but 3 times the cost.
 
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Where I think they are missing the boat is by not having the 200-600 out yet. I also agree on the 800f11. One of my friendshas an R5 paired with the 800f11 and gets some incredible shots. He shoots a lot from a kayak and likes the light compact lens.
 
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We all know Nikon fell far below the curve and is struggling to recover. They have pulled even in technology with the Z9, which garnered a massive amount of pre-orders, and they are working on glass. Not bad for a company many have proclaimed dead and buried. My biggest issue with Nikon is their inability to deliver more popular products in quantity in a timely fashion, but they will get there. In the mean time, I am really enjoying my Z9 and Z mount 70-200mm f/2.8 S. I'm hoping it doesn't take too long to get out the Z 200-600mm they have announced. In the mean time, my Z9 is working great with my 200-500mm f/5.6 and 600mm f/4G as well as other f mount AF-S glass. I'm a happy birder right now, especially given the spring migration is starting here in SE Texas.
 
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Nikon is not ( yet) missing any boat(s). The incredible demand for the Z9 and the quality of the camera indicate quite the opposite. The next thing Nikon needs to do is to get the 200-600mm lens out into the market, and that this lens be a good value. There are people who adore the f11 Canon telephotos, but I don't think this one set of products is going to make or break either company.
 
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ronnie said:
Last year Canon came out with 600mm RF Lens and 800mm F11 RF Lens, both light weight and very affordable lens.

The Canon equivalent to the Z6ii is their R6 and with this 800mm F11 RF make a great combination. My regular birding partner has this Canon setup and i envy the reach he has with the 800mm lens.

Why has Nikon not come out with a similar lens to compliment their range?

I think Nikon has missed the boat.
Click to expand...
500 PF + TC 2x is 1000mm F11. How does the compare to the Canon 800 F11? YOu have an extra 200mm If you want shorter, try 500 PF + TC 1.4 which gives you a 700 F8
 
RichF said:
500 PF + TC 2x is 1000mm F11. How does the compare to the Canon 800 F11? YOu have an extra 200mm If you want shorter, try 500 PF + TC 1.4 which gives you a 700 F8
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Mostly the price I think, with the 800 being 1/4 the cost of the 500 PF. Not even the same category though, the 500pf is more comparable quality and price to a Canon RF 100-500.
 
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Strodav said:
We all know Nikon fell far below the curve and is struggling to recover. They have pulled even in technology with the Z9, which garnered a massive amount of pre-orders, and they are working on glass. Not bad for a company many have proclaimed dead and buried. My biggest issue with Nikon is their inability to deliver more popular products in quantity in a timely fashion, but they will get there. In the mean time, I am really enjoying my Z9 and Z mount 70-200mm f/2.8 S. I'm hoping it doesn't take too long to get out the Z 200-600mm they have announced. In the mean time, my Z9 is working great with my 200-500mm f/5.6 and 600mm f/4G as well as other f mount AF-S glass. I'm a happy birder right now, especially given the spring migration is starting here in SE Texas.
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Are you using the Z9 with either of those lenses and a TC? If so, what is your opinion of their performance? If not, how do you like the Z9 paired with the 600mm?
 
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ronnie said:
Last year Canon came out with 600mm RF Lens and 800mm F11 RF Lens, both light weight and very affordable lens.

The Canon equivalent to the Z6ii is their R6 and with this 800mm F11 RF make a great combination. My regular birding partner has this Canon setup and i envy the reach he has with the 800mm lens.

Why has Nikon not come out with a similar lens to compliment their range?

I think Nikon has missed the boat.
Click to expand...

you can dice this type of statement any way you want to show anything you want

for example, you can say that the top of the line canon mirrorless sport body is only 24MP, compared to the 45/50MP of nikon and sony, so canon has missed the boat
 
John Navitsky said:
you can dice this type of statement any way you want to show anything you want

for example, you can say that the top of the line canon mirrorless sport body is only 24MP, compared to the 45/50MP of nikon and sony, so canon has missed the boat
Click to expand...

That isn't the top. The R1 is supposed to be 75mp+ if it ever gets announced, and Sony will then have 100. But more isnt necessarily better, I think it's a horses for courses kind of thing. 24 is a nice sweet spot for pro shooters for photojournalism, the web, weddings, sports, wildlife, more. Natgeo and sports illustrated are only so big.
 
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Whiskeyman said:
Are you using the Z9 with either of those lenses and a TC? If so, what is your opinion of their performance? If not, how do you like the Z9 paired with the 600mm?
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My experience is pretty much the same as others have reported with the Z9, that is, no loss of IQ, and AF speeds are either the same as on my D850 and D500 or a bit better. I have tried the Nikon 600mm f/4G, 20–500mm f/5.6, Tamron 150-600mm f/5-6.3 G2, Sigma 105mm f/2.8 macro and have not had any trouble at all using the FTZ II adapter. I did try a Nikon 1.4x III converter with the 200-500mm on the Z9 and was pleasantly surprised it worked as well as the 200-500mm without the 1.4x. You should know that I did not use a stop watch and I did not pixel peep. These are my initial impressions as I decide what glass to take out for nature / wildlife / birding.

I bought a Z mount 70-200mm f/2.8 S with the Z9 and tested it against my Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 G2 f mount. Not much difference in IQ, maybe a difference in AF speed with the edge going to the Z glass. Looking at the 2 lenses side by side, you can see Nikon built the thickness of the FTZ adapter into the back of 70—200mm and it’s actually longer than the Tamron G2. I don’t feel I’m at any kind of disadvantage using my f mount glass on the Z9.
 
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I have the 800 f/11 and really like it for what it is - a $1000, lightweight, hand-holdable lens for when I want extra reach beyond the 100-500mm. Is it as sharp or smooth as the bigger and faster super teles? Heck no and I wouldn’t expect it to be. But there is no way I would ever drop $15-20K on one of those, so, with compromises, this lens gets me shots that were previously out of my reach. Living in Florida and the high ISO capabilities available today, f/11 hasn’t been too much of a hinderance. I’m on my iPad so here’s a link to an image taken with it from my Smugmug.

R5, 800mm IS STM, f/11, 1/2500 ISO 2000, handheld
www.firstlight.photo

Florida Birds - Firstlight Photography

This photo hosted by SmugMug; your photos look better here.
www.firstlight.photo www.firstlight.photo
 
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These inexpensive Canon prime supertelephoto lenses seem to be taking on the role that mirror telephoto lenses used to play back in the 1970s and 1980s, except that their optics are noticeably better. Kudos to Canon for making these lenses.
 
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What most people do not realize is that Canon is a much larger company and its photo division is well supported by the company's copier and printer sales. The Canon photo division is only 19% of the company's total revenues. It is even more stark with Sony which has revenused from games and network programming and music (EMI etc.) and financial services. The Sony photo group provides only 10% of the company's revenue and an even smaller share of its profits. Nikon's total revenue for 2020 was at the level of the Sony and Canon photo groups but Nikon has no larger additional sources of income to support overhead and R&D and manufacturing.

What I do not understand is why Nikon produces the 300mm f/4 PF and the 500mm f/5.6 PF and Canon can only provide f/11 lenses. It is Canon that is missing the boat, along with Sony. The Canon lenses require 4x the ISO setting and that is not great even with today's digital cameras. If I want to do so I can add a TC-20 III to the 500mm PF lens and have a 1000mm f/11 when it makes sense to do so.
 
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Calson said:
What I do not understand is why Nikon produces the 300mm f/4 PF and the 500mm f/5.6 PF and Canon can only provide f/11 lenses. It is Canon that is missing the boat, along with Sony. The Canon lenses require 4x the ISO setting and that is not great even with today's digital cameras. If I want to do so I can add a TC-20 III to the 500mm PF lens and have a 1000mm f/11 when it makes sense to do so.
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Sony has not missed the boat since it has 200-600 (pretty cheap too compared to Canon's 100-500 ) which is a stella lens. How ever if Sony brings out a 500 Pf i will certainly buy it along with one more Sony a1 for my wife (unless Nikon brings out a ligher version of Z9 to be paired with my 500 PFs(I have two of them) )
 
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The OP can only be badly out of touch
Z Roadmap is promising - latest appended. Nikon have been muddling along on this since late 2018.... There will soon be 'only' 7 excellent Z Mount telephotos.
400 S PF and 800 f6.3S PF alone should do the trick, and don't overlook the Z-TCs, with superior IQ to the F-mount TCs. If prices are affordable, there will be a big demand from birders for both these primes. Even if only f4.5 and f6.3, this speed in a 400 and 800 is workable, even with a TC... Just sayin'. Based on the current 2 and pending 4 Phase-Fresnel telephotos, it's obvious since the 300 PF, that Nikon has overcome not only the technology but also mass production of these PF elements over the past decade. The has been using these elements in microscopes etc for some years before this

Besides and beyond all the Z choices, the main challenge with the Greater Nikon Ecosystem is deciding which lenses to buy/keep etc. And this is just in telephotos.... there are so many G and E choices (F-Mount AFS) produced over the past 3 decades. It takes a fair amount of research to work out which 300 f2.8 model to buy at bargain prices (D and G versions)

Oh and the 300 f4E PF, and the 500 f5.6E PF....then all the E FL primes; 120-300 f2.8E, 180-400 f4E TC....

Purists building a Z System have to wait for the 400 PF, probably f4.5 but Nikon may increase the window to f4, even though there's the 100-400 S. The FTZ adapters confounds the situation, as they work so damned well they create the agonies of choice


ronnie said:
Last year Canon came out with 600mm RF Lens and 800mm F11 RF Lens, both light weight and very affordable lens.

The Canon equivalent to the Z6ii is their R6 and with this 800mm F11 RF make a great combination. My regular birding partner has this Canon setup and i envy the reach he has with the 800mm lens.

Why has Nikon not come out with a similar lens to compliment their range?

I think Nikon has missed the boat.
Click to expand...

Updated Nikon NIKKOR-Z-lens-roadmap NR 19Jan2021.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
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In my opinion the thing Nikon is missing the boat on is getting that 200-600 launched. Yeah the exotic primes are great for the limited amount people who can/will buy them. However judging by the success Nikon had with the 200-500 and what Sony has with their 200-600 the demand is going to be incredible. Its been on the roadmap since the beginning. Nikon claimed that everything on the roadmap would be introduced in 2021 which has past. Then it was fiscal year 2021 which is rapidly approaching. Then what will be the excuse? Are they worried about the supply chain?
 
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As a former Nikon shooter who used the 500mm PF with a D500 daily, and a current R5 shooter who has used but does not own the 800mm f11, I can say this about that...

With the D500 the 500mm + 2xTC was soft. I expect that on a mirrorless the results would be improved, but I was never a fan of what I got. My shots with the 800mm f11 were distinctly sharper than the 500mm PF and TC, but there was a definite loss in sharpness to the lens by itself (which on the D500 is essentially a 750mm lens), and a loss of light/increase in noise.

As for the lens for a wildlife photographer, where I see the 800mm hitting a wheelhouse is for the hiker/photographer, who is shooting everything from landscapes to small birds. It's smaller and lighter than a large bottle of water and would be zero issue to carry around "just in case I see something" lens that won't break your budget. Had I stuck with Nikon I'd be waiting in the 800mm f6.3 PF as a long reach lens. For the amateur/hobbiest the reach to cost thing is amazing, and I'm not surprised folks are happy with them, because it shoots better than it sounds. But for a serious wildlife shooter it would never be an every day grab. JMHO.
 
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