Nikon Z400

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Many Feathers

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In Steve Perry's video comparing the 180-600 to the 400 f/4.5 lens and 100-400, he talks about autofocus speed at around 35:16

He surely does awesome videos.

He shows that in his tests, the Z100-400 (which I have), AF speed from minimum focus to maximum focus is 1.08 seconds. The Z400 is about 0.47 seconds. (The Z180-600 is about 0.8 seconds). At the end of the video, he says that if you're shooting very small birds at close range, you might want something faster (than the 180-600). I love shooting small songbirds at our backyard feeders and splashing in the birdbaths. I also try to catch them flying. I am thrilled with the Z8 and how many more keepers I'm getting and I haven't even tried the firmware upgrade yet (still winter here, although Spring is surely on the way.)

The Z400 is on sale for $250.00 off until 3/31/2024 (as far as I can tell). Still, it's $3000.00, a hefty price for me. I would think going from 1.08 seconds to 0.47 seconds in speed would make a pretty big difference. I'd love to have the Z400 for Spring Migration in WI, if it would really make a difference. Unfortunately, no one locally has the lens for rental, so I can't try before buying.

Any of you use both the Z100-400 and the Z400 for photographing small birds at close range? Is there a big difference, all other things such as settings and ability being equal?

Thanks much for your opinions...
 
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Hmm, you say "close range"? How close is close? The minimum focus distance for the 400mm is much larger than the 100-400mm (8 feet versus 2.5 feet). Personally I tried the Z100-400mm but mostly used it with the 1.4 TC and, at least my copy, wasn't great. So I ended up with the 400mm f/4.5. Would be happy to let you try my copy if you were in California. Why can't you rent from Borrow Lenses/Lens Rentals and have it shipped to your home to try?

Lensrentals.com - Rent a Nikon Z 400mm f/4.5 VR S

www.lensrentals.com www.lensrentals.com
 
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I kinda feel the same way as ricardo00. I am not too impressed with the 100-400 at 400mm bare otherwise it is great. The 400/ 4.5 is a whole different matter and I have little qualms using the 1.4 TC with it. However for little birds that effectively means the TC lives on it which isn’t optimal. Thus one reason I moved to the 800 pf but that still doesn’t solve the MFD issue.
 
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i don't shoot small birds, but i do have both the 100-400 and the 400 4.5 and shoot action.

i'm not sure that i can really quantify af difference between these two lenses, however i can say that i very much love the 400 4.5 and it's just a bit better across the board (sharpness, brightness, af, handling) and all those little incremental improvements add up to a noticeable improvement in the overall experience.

and, the 100-400 is a great lens to start with.

basically, if 400 is a good length for you, you certainly won't be unhappy with the 400 4.5 unless you REALLY need 2.8
 
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I second Chris' comment - the F-mount 500PF might be an interesting option if you don't mind the FTZ (a mild hassle) ... you can find the lens used for half the price of a Z 400 f/4.5, and you get another 100mm in focal length to boot. Or, consider Matthew's advice on the 180-600.

I love the Z 100-400, but songbirds are not its sweet spot. Your thinking is smart to consider another option - good luck with your journey and choice!
 
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Oh yeah, I'd probably take the 500PF before 180-600. On the Z8, it'll take the 1.4 TC III with aplomb, and you'll have an excellent 750mm f/8 lens when needed. It's what myself (and probably a lot other photogs here) used before all this other Z glass got announced.
 
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As mentioned, one trick is how close is close? One reason the 100-400 is slower is that it covers a longer focus range than the 400 4.5 - the zoom has to turn the focus ring much farther on the zoom. So, I'd look at the minimum focus distance for each and see if the prime will get close enough for your needs. I can say I've used the 400 / 400 + 1.4 for small birds and it's been great :)

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I liked the z400 f4.5. I rented it for a couple of weeks. I like the images straight out and with the 2x. But I always preferred zooms. I also rented the 100-400 but needed the 14x on it all the time. So it wasn’t reaching far enough for me, not did I like the lens barrel extending. Two reasons I love the 180-600 … better reach, internal zoom, fine images.
 
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I have 500 PF that I use also with TC1.4 eIII. Have used it on D500 for song birds as well as BIF. Recently bought Z8. Focus is better on Z8 especially with the TC attached. Rarely have I been too close to a bird where the lens was inside minimum focus. More often would want a longer lens but this works for me most of the time. Some people object to using the FTZ but has not been a problem for me
 
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Thanks much for all of your comments and photos. I've been studying my situation and you've given me lots of ideas to ponder. I did a little graph of where I photograph and my ranges are from 7 feet (although I can move a foot or 2 away or change the setup) to a huge tree that's 49 feet away. The birds frequently fly to that tree and then down to the various bird feeders and baths: 7ft, 10 ft, 13 ft, 14 ft, 18 ft, 20 ft and 23 ft. When there are babies, they start up in the tree and after a day or 2 of mom and dad feeding them in the tree, they try flying down to one of the feeders and flutter around it as they learn how to land. So, I'm thinking autofocus speed is the most important. I'm leaning heavily toward the Z400. Also, the 180-600 isn't available at this time. I just wanted you all to know I've read all your comments and you've helped me lots... as usual.
 
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Steve said:
As mentioned, one trick is how close is close? One reason the 100-400 is slower is that it covers a longer focus range than the 400 4.5 - the zoom has to turn the focus ring much farther on the zoom. So, I'd look at the minimum focus distance for each and see if the prime will get close enough for your needs. I can say I've used the 400 / 400 + 1.4 for small birds and it's been great :)

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Well, Steve, I'd be thrilled to have any of those shots in my images :) Guess I gotta study your books a little more :) Thanks!
 
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Many Feathers said:
Thanks much for all of your comments and photos. I've been studying my situation and you've given me lots of ideas to ponder. I did a little graph of where I photograph and my ranges are from 7 feet (although I can move a foot or 2 away or change the setup) to a huge tree that's 49 feet away. The birds frequently fly to that tree and then down to the various bird feeders and baths: 7ft, 10 ft, 13 ft, 14 ft, 18 ft, 20 ft and 23 ft. When there are babies, they start up in the tree and after a day or 2 of mom and dad feeding them in the tree, they try flying down to one of the feeders and flutter around it as they learn how to land. So, I'm thinking autofocus speed is the most important. I'm leaning heavily toward the Z400. Also, the 180-600 isn't available at this time. I just wanted you all to know I've read all your comments and you've helped me lots... as usual.
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Yep, the ability to wield your camera/lens and its abilities will help to catch the birds as they jump around. So for me, the 400mm f/4.5 (even with a TC) works best. I haven't tried the 180-600mm but its size and slower focus speed haven't appealed to me. If I was buying now, I might be tempted to go for the 600mm PF. Good luck on your decision and have fun.
 
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