beano
Well-known member
Ha, good timing, I will be in Prague from the 8th until 13th of February. Let’s see what I will do on Saturday afteronin and Sunday, surely many good spots to exercise photography
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Nikon Z50 II Launched
- Thread starter fcotterill
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ixthus12
New member
There is an article https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/archives/11-2024.html
Where this Professional photographer explains that the AF is on par with Z8/9 where its lags is is EVF with blackout and Shutter speeds. But there are work around in settings where one can squeeze out every last bit and get amazing sharp photos even with BIF where it suffers compared to Z8/9 because of slower sensor. I have yet to try my Z50ii with Electronic first curtain shutter to see the difference but I’m telling you it does pretty well for this hobbyist. I don’t even care about crop in 4k60 because closer to subject is great for me and at 10bit. it’s pretty good. Better than pretty good. Where it shines and not just in AF is its customize ability. You can even assign save/recall focus to any camera button and even has the AF handoff like the Z6iii, Z8/9 plus many many other features.
ixthus12
New member
Do you know the funny thing is everybody’s complaining it’s not a D500 replacement but in all aspects it’s got faster auto focus with sticky bird eye detection even when the bird dodges behind a branch. It’s still there and sticky. It’s got faster, shutter speeds way more customization, and oh not to forget the D500 didn’t have ibis either. Only difference is the size of the camera body and the battery. The people are gonna be that picky. Let them fork out the extra money get the Z8 there you have 19 1/2 megapixels in DX mode plus you’ve got a pro body pro battery and everything else. I like my Z 50ii. It is so customizable has many of the same menu items that the Z8 has even save and recall focus positions programmed to any button also has auto focus handoff to any button you want to program it too. It has two function buttons three user modes. It’s a great camera all for $910.The original Z50 was not designed as an Entry level camera (a product Nikon stopped making at the D3*00, D5*00 lines) - explain by @EricBowles link below. The Z50 approximated the D7*00 designs as the affordable Hobbyist - Enthusiast Tier. The just announced upgrade repeats the design of a capable Enthusiast aka Hobbyist camera, and it now has powerful Pro features.
At its launch, similar in some ways to the D300, the D500 was unique as a fully Pro DSLR, albeit DX. Nikon designed it as the Baby D5. Arguably, the Z equivalent will need be similar to the Z9 in body chassis, menus and not least the stacked sensor.
Passion Embedded in Design | Design | Nikon About Us
The Story Behind the Creation of the Designwww.nikon.com
With its improved haptics, the expanded Custom menus and Autofocus push the Z50 II into the Pro-Hobbyist Tier, even though it lacks IBIS and vertical grip. In terms of capabilities, the Custom menu options with Z9 AF far exceed the feature sets of a Z6 II and Z7 II (or the D7*00) designs.
That's what I see as well. It's got the performance, it's just not in a Z8 shell.
People also forget that the D500 adjusted for inflation would be $2650 today. You get performance that exceeds that for $900.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
The Z50II is incredible value, but this doesn't hide its fundamental limitations. Many birder's etc will pay $2000-2500 for a lighter, more compact DX clone of the Z8, if it has the electronic shutter that handles demands of fast action scenes, and it has the Pro controls and menus.
This vacant niche for such a camera - Z80 - in the Nikon Z ecosystem circles back to the venerable 20mp sensor. This is past its expiration date, in that it cannot support a Prosumer DX MILC. At minimum, Nikon's new DX sensor has to be the clone of Z6 III Partially-Stacked Sensor, and ideally with faster scan rate.
Pairing a Z80, weighing~700g, with the lightest Z-mount (equally adapted F-mount) Lenses will open up many options. It will allow competitive travel and wildlife kits (Commando Kits). Nikon already offers the highest diversity of optics to choose from, across a range of budgets.
This vacant niche for such a camera - Z80 - in the Nikon Z ecosystem circles back to the venerable 20mp sensor. This is past its expiration date, in that it cannot support a Prosumer DX MILC. At minimum, Nikon's new DX sensor has to be the clone of Z6 III Partially-Stacked Sensor, and ideally with faster scan rate.
Pairing a Z80, weighing~700g, with the lightest Z-mount (equally adapted F-mount) Lenses will open up many options. It will allow competitive travel and wildlife kits (Commando Kits). Nikon already offers the highest diversity of optics to choose from, across a range of budgets.
I don't think Nikon will build that. it would probably steal a good chunk of Z8, Z9 and Z6iii sales. Like a substantial amount of them for 2000-2500.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Analogous arguments can be made against a Z8 and Z6 III with respect to the Z9, as against a Z80
Nikon has always had distinctly different cameras with overlapping feature sets for different needs and reasons, and therefore fulfilling complementary uses for users.
Nikon needs regular updates of its camera line up to maintain profits, particularly once demand levels off for the latest releases. A Z80 should kindle another spate of demand for telephotos among other lenses.
Nikon released Q3/2025 financial results - Nikon Rumors
Nikon released their Q3 financial results for the year ending March 2025. Here are the overall numbers for the entire company: Revenue: ¥179.9B (Down ¥17.8B YoY) – Revenue declined on decreased sales in semiconductor-related businesses in the Precision Equipment and the Components. Operating...
nikonrumors.com
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Analogous arguments can be made against a Z8 and Z6 III with respect to the Z9, as against a Z80
Nikon has always had distinctly different cameras with overlapping feature sets for different needs and reasons, and therefore fulfilling complementary uses and users.
Nikon needs regular updates of its camera line up to maintain profits, particularly once demand levels off for the latest releases. A Z80 should kindle another spate of demand for telephotos among other lenses.
Nikon released Q3/2025 financial results - Nikon Rumors
Nikon released their Q3 financial results for the year ending March 2025. Here are the overall numbers for the entire company: Revenue: ¥179.9B (Down ¥17.8B YoY) – Revenue declined on decreased sales in semiconductor-related businesses in the Precision Equipment and the Components. Operating...
I just don't think we'll see it. If anything they'll keep discounting the Z8 down under $3000 at some point. It's at $3400 now. The D500 would have been $2650 adjusted for inflation.
If you're selling cameras, what do you do, sell an expensive APS-C with a 20-26mp sensor, and people say "my Z8 already does that, or I'll just get the Z6iii" or sell a 40 megapixel sensor and halt a good portion of Z8 sales as people now go for the cheaper/better wildlife option with more crop factor, this camera now also exists with a large crop factor to thwart the Z9ii/Z8ii when they arrive.
It's not that I don't want a sweet APS-C camera, I just think they won't do it because it's not the smartest business move. You want to sell more Z8's.
spamalot1950
Member
As someone who went from a D7500 to the Z50ii (which were essentially the same price), the change is phenomenal. While the learning curve WRT menus was steep, the rewards have been exceptional. That said, I'm a bit confused by some of this discussion. From the few bits I read last spring, the Z80 was tentatively expected last fall with roughly the same features as the Z50ii. Did Nikon simply go with a different name? On the other hand, I keep seeing a Z90 being mentioned with a probable release date later the year with a price between $1500 and $2000. So many rumors; so few substantiated facts.
And, I could be wrong about all of this.
I suspect that Nikon's marketing decisions will be driven by what Canon, Fuji, and Sony are offering and less by what its own APS-C sales might do to its full frame line.
And, I could be wrong about all of this.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Another common argument is the Z8 is too heavy. An important positive difference is the DX sensors enable a smaller lighter Pro ILC, but with the penalty to lowlight IQ compared to modern FX sensors. However, judging from D500 sales and reception many consider this worth the trade off.
On a different note, in its corporate reports Nikon reiterates one of its primary goals is to extend Z9 technology "downstream" into more affordable and smaller cameras. Their strategy is as much about selling Z9 technology as many times over as possible, even better when the latest iteration sells yet more lenses.
On a different note, in its corporate reports Nikon reiterates one of its primary goals is to extend Z9 technology "downstream" into more affordable and smaller cameras. Their strategy is as much about selling Z9 technology as many times over as possible, even better when the latest iteration sells yet more lenses.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
The Z Nikon Ecosystem is missing a Pro DX camera with:
- new Partially-Stacked DX sensor - faster scan rate to minimize electronic shutter distortion;
- Z6 III EVF;
- IBIS with support for Synchro VR ;
- Pro chassis and controls (shooting banks);
- 6K video;
- dual CFExpress cards;
- ENEL15c battery with optional Vertical grip
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I think Canon and Sony are in the same situation, build an exceptional APS-C camera and lenses and nuke your full frame sales (and the competitions). There will always be the people who buy the full frames for a smidge better sensor in high ISO, but a lot of people will see "that's plenty good enough" and save money on the less expensive option.
Or they could just go for it and make the most competitive APS-C camera ever made, go all in and price it accordingly. At Z8 prices. Then they make the money either way.
But that's not what people want. They want a half price Z8. Nikon and the others don't want to sell that.
That's a half priced Z8. Good bye Z8 and Z6iii sales.
spamalot1950
Member
On the other hand, if Fuji builds that premium DX body, Nikon loses sales in both the FX and DX lines. And, none of this considers the future of the camera market. With Chinese brands like Viltrox and Yongnuo offering increasingly better lenses at very appealing prices, how long before they enter the camera body market?
That's the risk that they signed up for by pushing things upmarket for higher margins in a reduced unit sale environment.
Fuji might, but is currently lacking some lens options and I'm not sure how AF is on them, last I saw the X-H2s is on revision 7 of firmware so looks like they're working on it constantly. But for now it's 26 mp and IMO not a threat to a Z8 (or Z9, A1s, R5s etc) which can crop for not much loss and be full frame and get those benefits. If they have a 40 megapixel stacked sensor coming with equal autofocus and framerates to the flagships, lookout.
For Fuji though it's mostly long lenses compared to the rest.
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To those thinking that a D500 style Z camera would steal too many Z9 and Z8 sales, so Nikon will never build it. Did the D500 greatly decrease D850, D5 and D6 sales? Nope. Don't think so.
Sony is the honeybadger of the industry, they don't give a s#$t. They sell the FX3, full-frame, and the FX30, same body, cropped sensor for half price. Forever, before they entered imaging, they stated that they want to cannibalize their own products. At some point there were 90 concurrent versions of the Sony Walkmen.
Preparing for travel I decided to take a look at the specs on the Z50ii as a possible travel kit to replace the Sony kit I've used for several years. It would be nice to have all Z kit. I was pleasantly surprised at the specs and was about sold. Then I saw that it doesn't use the EL15 battery. That's a no go for me. It's painful enough dealing with two different batteries with Z8/9. I'm not about to add a third. Just goofy. I wish Nikon would decide who rules the roost, the engineers or marketing. They seem to go back and forth.
The D500 sold more units than the D850, had it not existed how many of those sales would have been D850's? Only Nikon knows and they haven't made a replacement for it. Which may be hinting at what they know.
I'm not against a D500 replacement at all, it would be sweet. I can just see the reasoning they have with what, 14% market share now? They need all the profit per unit they can get.
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spamalot1950
Member
Not to belabor the point, but the profit from the sales of camera bodies is just one consideration. Nikon bodies are required to sell Nikon lenses. And, the host of other Nikon after market accessories. A DX body can produce a great deal of profit beyond that of the initial sale. If the market for an upscale DX camera body is conceded to another manufacturer, then it also concedes all those sales of additional lenses, batteries, flashes, etc. Mattel provided the original business model for this approach when they introduced Barbie to the world.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Similarly, the D500 didn't appear to depress D750 demand. Neither is there evidence the D300 in its era cannibalizing sales of FX DSLRs.
The D500 began shipping early 2016, and it sold steadily through the D850 launch in late 2017.
Very high demand resulted in D850 backorders for over a year.... Threads on forums attest to the frustrations
The irony is the tale told on fora is the D850 eclipsed demand for the D500 after 2017. So it's interesting to note the reality is positive for both cameras. There were significant D500 sales since April 2019.
All data gaps and reporting notwithstanding, both the D850 and D500 rate among Nikon's highly successful Professional cameras - also Halo Products - besides the numbers sold.
The D500 continues to be widely used in southern Africa for very good reasons. Retailers are frustrated by its discontinuation because demand persists. It's still an excellent choice for wildlife, even with the new Z50II on the market
Nonetheless, whatever the attempts at denials and excuses, it's beyond doubt both the D500 and D850 together sold the D5 AF and related technology very well indeed for Nikon Imaging. We also need to consider how sales of these Pro cameras will have pushed up the Lens: Camera tie ratio, with a bias favouring increased telephoto sales.
Anyone who believes the D500 is not a Nikon success has to produce the evidence. A Z80 should pick up the role of the D500 (and D300)
**** Some data from a recent analysis
After approx 3 years on the market, late June 2019, the D500 is listed at 110759 copies on Photosynthesis. The last few months of sales - at this time - will already have overlapped the first year of Z7 and Z6 sales and Z MILC lenses (selling since October 2018).
Shrinking DSLR sales notwithstanding, today's total is 227532 D500 - an increase of 116773 registered since June 2019 alongside the best selling D850, plus Z cameras.
Interesting to note D850 sales have increased to 363560 since June 2019, with only 73,967+ registered already 2 years after its shipping began in late 2017. However, there were big order backlogs of the D850 over the first year and longer. This is expected, Nikon has stated officially how the D850 has been one of their best selling ILCs overall.
Obviously, these statistics are incomplete global totals, which will be significantly higher considering huge geographical gaps and the overall rate of underreporting - Asian markets particularly - to Roland's database.
nikonrumors.com
The D500 began shipping early 2016, and it sold steadily through the D850 launch in late 2017.
Very high demand resulted in D850 backorders for over a year.... Threads on forums attest to the frustrations
The irony is the tale told on fora is the D850 eclipsed demand for the D500 after 2017. So it's interesting to note the reality is positive for both cameras. There were significant D500 sales since April 2019.
All data gaps and reporting notwithstanding, both the D850 and D500 rate among Nikon's highly successful Professional cameras - also Halo Products - besides the numbers sold.
The D500 continues to be widely used in southern Africa for very good reasons. Retailers are frustrated by its discontinuation because demand persists. It's still an excellent choice for wildlife, even with the new Z50II on the market
Nonetheless, whatever the attempts at denials and excuses, it's beyond doubt both the D500 and D850 together sold the D5 AF and related technology very well indeed for Nikon Imaging. We also need to consider how sales of these Pro cameras will have pushed up the Lens: Camera tie ratio, with a bias favouring increased telephoto sales.
Anyone who believes the D500 is not a Nikon success has to produce the evidence. A Z80 should pick up the role of the D500 (and D300)
**** Some data from a recent analysis
After approx 3 years on the market, late June 2019, the D500 is listed at 110759 copies on Photosynthesis. The last few months of sales - at this time - will already have overlapped the first year of Z7 and Z6 sales and Z MILC lenses (selling since October 2018).
Shrinking DSLR sales notwithstanding, today's total is 227532 D500 - an increase of 116773 registered since June 2019 alongside the best selling D850, plus Z cameras.
Interesting to note D850 sales have increased to 363560 since June 2019, with only 73,967+ registered already 2 years after its shipping began in late 2017. However, there were big order backlogs of the D850 over the first year and longer. This is expected, Nikon has stated officially how the D850 has been one of their best selling ILCs overall.
Obviously, these statistics are incomplete global totals, which will be significantly higher considering huge geographical gaps and the overall rate of underreporting - Asian markets particularly - to Roland's database.
Nikon DSLR camera sales figures (estimations) - Nikon Rumors
A dpreview forum member compiled a list of Nikon DSLR camera sales figures based on serial number registrations from the website Photosynthesis: D1________________37,759 D1H______________12,383 D1X______________47,109 D2H______________39,823 D2HS______________7,838 D2X______________66,839...
nikonrumors.com
I don't think anyones arguing that the D500 didn't sell, or a Z500 or whatever would not sell. Of course it did and would.Similarly, the D500 didn't appear to depress D750 demand. Neither is there evidence the D300 in its era cannibalizing sales of FX DSLRs.
The D500 began shipping early 2016, and it sold steadily through the D850 launch in late 2017.
Very high demand resulted in D850 backorders for over a year.... Threads on forums attest to the frustrations
The irony is the tale told on fora is the D850 eclipsed demand for the D500 after 2017. So it's interesting to note the reality is positive for both cameras. There were significant D500 sales since April 2019.
All data gaps and reporting notwithstanding, both the D850 and D500 rate among Nikon's highly successful Professional cameras - also Halo Products - besides the numbers sold.
The D500 continues to be widely used in southern Africa for very good reasons. Retailers are frustrated by its discontinuation because demand persists. It's still an excellent choice for wildlife, even with the new Z50II on the market
Nonetheless, whatever the attempts at denials and excuses, it's beyond doubt both the D500 and D850 together sold the D5 AF and related technology very well indeed for Nikon Imaging. We also need to consider how sales of these Pro cameras will have pushed up the Lens: Camera tie ratio, with a bias favouring increased telephoto sales.
Anyone who believes the D500 is not a Nikon success has to produce the evidence. A Z80 should pick up the role of the D500 (and D300)
**** Some data from a recent analysis
After approx 3 years on the market, late June 2019, the D500 is listed at 110759 copies on Photosynthesis. The last few months of sales - at this time - will already have overlapped the first year of Z7 and Z6 sales and Z MILC lenses (selling since October 2018).
Shrinking DSLR sales notwithstanding, today's total is 227532 D500 - an increase of 116773 registered since June 2019 alongside the best selling D850, plus Z cameras.
Interesting to note D850 sales have increased to 363560 since June 2019, with only 73,967+ registered already 2 years after its shipping began in late 2017. However, there were big order backlogs of the D850 over the first year and longer. This is expected, Nikon has stated officially how the D850 has been one of their best selling ILCs overall.
Obviously, these statistics are incomplete global totals, which will be significantly higher considering huge geographical gaps and the overall rate of underreporting - Asian markets particularly - to Roland's database.
Nikon DSLR camera sales figures (estimations) - Nikon Rumors
A dpreview forum member compiled a list of Nikon DSLR camera sales figures based on serial number registrations from the website Photosynthesis: D1________________37,759 D1H______________12,383 D1X______________47,109 D2H______________39,823 D2HS______________7,838 D2X______________66,839...
The question is whether Nikon would build it or try to sell more Z8's/Z6iii's instead with higher margins. Those also sell lenses. Nikon's not the market share camera maker it used to be in DSLR times. They have to make more per unit with less sales. Their strategy for survival was move upmarket with less market share.
A lower price D500 runs counter to that strategy, unless it's also pretty expensive, say $3000. After all adjusted for inflation the original would be $2650 today. Then you find yourself in the position of just pay to buy the $3400 Z8?.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Every high end ILC has its initial peak in sales, which saturates the upgraders and switchers; then it drops off to a lower turnover, which has smaller parks when Nikon offers Specials.
Judged from Nikon's short statements in its quarterly reports (since 2022) the Z9, Z8, Zf, and most recently Z6 III and Z50II have successfully passed along the baton in maintaining high demand for Z cameras. Critically, alongside selling Z Glass, these sales have maintained a steady high CAGR on the R&D invested in creating Nikon's Z9 Technology. The Z9 and Z8 don't get a mention in recent reports, but presumably their sales have been ticking along....
Actually the Big question for Nikon becomes what new Z Camera(s) picks up the baton! sustaining sales?
All Prosumer and Pro cameras sell lenses, the action orientated ILCs obviously drive demand for telephotos.
Precisely. By 2015 Nikon had decided to discard the Entry camera Line (D3*00 etc). These were the semi automated budget Kit DSLRs with their software control interface for exposure settings etc, and the Point and Shoots (The collective of Smartphone casualties)
The D6*0 and higher ILCs were prioritized, and the Z MILC follow an analogous hierarchy in their respective design and specifications
The Z30, Z50, and Z5 are Nikon's "Entry" models into the Z System. Each is a highly capable Prosumer camera in its own right. One tell tale feature is how they perpetuate the D7*00 style of controls in their design.
The Z6 and Z7 Lines approximate the D6*0 and D7*0 tiers; conservative Nikon perpetuates the Controls in their design.
The D300 and D500 were Nikon's Professional DX cameras, in the D3 and then D5 eras. These bought at their more affordable price, the high end batteries, Vertical grip, Pro AF systems (enhanced with a DX OVF), 20mp pixels/duck with crop factor using a FX telephoto (albeit a ~ ISO 3200 ceiling). This firmly defined their niche in wildlife photography compared to the FX options.
The FX Z8 approximates the D8*0, specifically the Pro D850, straddling almost all genres.
These parallels are roughly similar, given fundamentally different designs and technology eras.
The $1000-800 RRP seems to be the bottom rung in Nikon's pricing to maintain sufficient margin on the Z cameras. Conveniently, one buys a whole lot more imaging quality, features and options in one of these MILC's than a smartphone.
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Not at all, especially because it will be maintaining a high demand for Z9 technology at an affordable price. As seen in the Zf, Z6 III, Z50II, this is Nikon's key tactic in a strategy that aims to attract new disposable income spenders into the Z System.
Emerging photographers can afford a Pro MILC with Z9 technology to establish their new Z system including telephoto glass....
....the Grasshopper Birder / Wildlife Photographer jumps into the Z system for the lighter Pro Z80 with decent battery life DX crop factor AND buys the unbeatable hiking/air travel friendly glass...
....the veteran Nikonian adds a lighter Z80 for hiking etc, especially as "Hell it's only $2500...."
unless it's also pretty expensive, say $3000. After all adjusted for inflation the original would be $2650 today.
Fujifilm sell a stacked sensor APC MILC< $2500
Nikon can match this and deliver a distinctly superior DX camera. Get in line for the new queues waiting for backordered telephotos, particularly 100-400 S, 400 f4.5S, 600 PF
To repeat yet again, the Professional FX Z8 is too heavy according to frequent feedback; and for too many budgets, a Z8 is too expensive.
I have no idea what Nikon has planned for DX, but I like their approach of including features from their flagship bodies into their less expensive models and hope that continues. I’m always looking to keep my travel kit as small as possible without sacrificing too many features and the Z50ii certainly fits the bill. The AF subject detection and tracking along with the level of customization is amazing for this price point. Hudson Henry has 3 videos on the Z50ii which helped convince me to give it a try. I’ve been using it with the 16-50, 24-200 and 26 and have been very pleased with it so far. One nice feature of the Z50ii is that the shutter speed and aperture can be assigned in the U1, U2, U3 settings making it easy to switch between action and landscape, for example. I think this is the first Nikon body to provide this. While it certainly won’t replace my Z8, it will be the camera I will always have with me when I need to travel light. Well done Nikon!
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