Nikon Z9 and Z8 use by video shooters

[agrumpyoldsod]

I would like to have a thread on the fun and challenges that we Z9 and future (or actual) Z8 users face when shooting video. What works, what are lessons learned and what are areas where more work needs to be done [within the limitations of the bodies we have - so firmware and accessories then]

Fairly obviously the Z9 is a great tool with almost unlimited capabilities to shoot an array of format in a single recording only limited by card size and the Nikon 2 hour and 5 minute limit. Nikon has done a great job in enabling Time Code syncing and giving us more and more tools. But obviously there is more that each of us would like to see.
--- at least one of us would like to see Nikon offer full open gate not the 16x9 full width crop that is 8.3k N-Raw today.

Now we are beginning to see how powerful the Z8 might be in its smaller lighter body -- but of course this comes with new limitations AND some new tools:
first limits --- yes heat and other limitations -- According to Nikon - the time one can record is limited to 2 hours and 5 mins in the Z9. Whereas the Z8 is limited to up to 125 min. in 4K UHD/60p*2 and up to 90 min. in 8K UHD/30p *3 continuous recording possible.
[NOTES - *2 -- H.265 8-bit (MOV), [Extended oversampling]: [OFF], [Auto temperature cutout]: [Standard], at 25°C/77°F, using a Nikon MC-CF660G memory card and external power source. *3 -- H.265 8-bit (MOV), [Auto temperature cutout]: [High], at 25°C/77°F, using a Nikon MC-CF660G memory card and external power source.]

So not N-RAW HQ N-LOG with Oversampling OFF, and Auto temp cut out HIGH AND with the fastest coolest cards possible not Nikon's own brand.

Some folk have tested these formats but not with the fastest cards -- so one wonders what is possible if a really large ultra fast CFE-B x2.0 compliant card is used.
The 2hr 5min limit is imposed by Nikon in the Z9 -- but it looks like the figures above for the Z8 were test results but - we will see what is possible when we get our own Z8 to play with..

Then the positive it looks like we can recorded everything we could with a Z9, plus there are new features like "skin-softening function" which can be used in video and stills -- how does this work and with which recording formats.

Nikon clarified the Z8 does record 48 KHz 24-bit Linear PCM with N-RAW, MOV and AAC AND 48KHz 16-bit when recording in MP4. I happen to believe this is what the Z9 does as well.

Obviously we can deliver power with a 5+ watt source and use the primary data USB-C for other uses. AND we can output and control via the full size HDMI.

Happy to engage in productive explorations with other users of these great tools.

 

[Wes Peterson]

The only real issues I have with the Z9 and video are based on controls. No AF switching via programable buttons, AF-F tracking can be initiated with multiple buttons but only reset with one. Basically when you switch to video you cant have the buttons do the same thing they do in still mode. Its as if different teams designed the UI on the video and still side.

 

[wildlifr]

Biggest issue is the AF is restricted to Wide Area -L in Hi-Res zoom , and when using it, there's no indication of focus lock.

 

[Nimi]

Great thread. My wants assuming we stick with these bodies (no XLR, electronic ND) and not repeating the above:

1. Nikon cine-lens set.
2. An adapter that sits between the lens and body with a VND. Similar to the Throttle sold by Fodiox ex Z to Z and electronic connections. Probably impossible due to shallow flange distance.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Great thread. My wants assuming we stick with these bodies (no XLR, electronic ND) and not repeating the above:

1. Nikon cine-lens set.
2. An adapter that sits between the lens and body with a VND. Similar to the Throttle sold by Fodiox ex Z to Z and electronic connections. Probably impossible due to shallow flange distance.

Somewhat related..... no drop in variable ND filters for supertelephotos. They should offer a holder similar to the polarizer that can be adjusted without removing filter holder.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

Great thread. My wants assuming we stick with these bodies (no XLR, electronic ND) and not repeating the above:

1. Nikon cine-lens set.
2. An adapter that sits between the lens and body with a VND. Similar to the Throttle sold by Fodiox ex Z to Z and electronic connections. Probably impossible due to shallow flange distance.

What do you mean by CINE-Lenses ? -- Given that there are a 3rd party fully manual Z-mount lenses already available from siriu and IRIX and others I very much doubt that Nikon would move away from lenses that provide auto-focus. Nikon glass is used extensively in the CINE industry by firms who rehouse them into a standard a PL mount.

Would it not be better for Nikon to allow use of ISO 64 and L1/L2 in all video formats rather than limit us to 800 or the potential "Upcoming features will be added in planned firmware updates, including an Auto Capture function, which will allow a photographer to automatically trigger a remote camera on user-set parameters. An update will also allow for the base ISO to be extended down to 200 when shooting video footage with N-Log enabled."
My preference would be to be able to use all ISO settings not have them limited.

 

[Wes Peterson]

What do you mean by CINE-Lenses ? -- Given that there are a 3rd party fully manual Z-mount lenses already available from siriu and IRIX and others I very much doubt that Nikon would move away from lenses that provide auto-focus. Nikon glass is used extensively in the CINE industry by firms who rehouse them into a standard a PL mount.

Would it not be better for Nikon to allow use of ISO 64 and L1/L2 in all video formats rather than limit us to 800 or the potential "Upcoming features will be added in planned firmware updates, including an Auto Capture function, which will allow a photographer to automatically trigger a remote camera on user-set parameters. An update will also allow for the base ISO to be extended down to 200 when shooting video footage with N-Log enabled."
My preference would be to be able to use all ISO settings not have them limited.

The ISO in LOG isnt just limited because Nikon wants it that way..... a higher ISO is necessary to achieve the proper exposure curve. Youll find this across every manufacturer with a LOG profile.

 

[Nimi]

What do you mean by CINE-Lenses ? -- Given that there are a 3rd party fully manual Z-mount lenses already available from siriu and IRIX and others I very much doubt that Nikon would move away from lenses that provide auto-focus. Nikon glass is used extensively in the CINE industry by firms who rehouse them into a standard a PL mount.

Would it not be better for Nikon to allow use of ISO 64 and L1/L2 in all video formats rather than limit us to 800 or the potential "Upcoming features will be added in planned firmware updates, including an Auto Capture function, which will allow a photographer to automatically trigger a remote camera on user-set parameters. An update will also allow for the base ISO to be extended down to 200 when shooting video footage with N-Log enabled."
My preference would be to be able to use all ISO settings not have them limited.

A man can dream! The Chinese lenses are oaky, not great and won't pass anyone's close scrutiny. Adapting is fine and I have on order an Atlas Mercury (PL) and i use a few AI-S lenses via FTZ. Wouldn't it be nice if Nikon (or Nikon/Zeiss) had a 3 or a 5-lens set, natively Z, T2.0. Rehouse current lineup w/o AF, with uniform filter thread, long focus throw and gearing belt? But you're of course right, it's not that important.

Re ISO, yes. It would be great to be able to extend the maximum dynamic range down to 64 in Nlog. I'm finding out that I throw away a lot of footage this week because of artifacts and casts from my filters, as expensive as they are. And shooting completely stepped down is also not ideal.

As Wes mentioned earlier, the UI can be improved. Imagine a whole new menu when you flick over to video. Shutter angle, sir? That can't be hard to do in firmware.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

The C menu system is something that the C-Canon bodies do with their entire new menu - NOT for me -- these are very slow to boot and useless if you want to quickly switch from stills to vid and back again. I agree it would be cool to have false colour - and some other displays/controls -- I am sure that Nikon has a team working on this.....

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

N-Log 3D LUT is available for download now includes Z8 -- the guide is the FIRST document you can download from Nikon for the Z8.​

 

[ElenaH]

Now we are beginning to see how powerful the Z8 might be in its smaller lighter body -- but of course this comes with new limitations AND some new tools:
first limits --- yes heat and other limitations -- According to Nikon - the time one can record is limited to 2 hours and 5 mins in the Z9. Whereas the Z8 is limited to up to 125 min. in 4K UHD/60p*2 and up to 90 min. in 8K UHD/30p *3 continuous recording possible.
[NOTES - *2 -- H.265 8-bit (MOV), [Extended oversampling]: [OFF], [Auto temperature cutout]: [Standard], at 25°C/77°F, using a Nikon MC-CF660G memory card and external power source. *3 -- H.265 8-bit (MOV), [Auto temperature cutout]: [High], at 25°C/77°F, using a Nikon MC-CF660G memory card and external power source.]

I don't know if somebody from us really shooting 2hrs with Z9... ? But I am afraid that we will not come to those limits without camera overheat. At least, folks who are filimng in Africa. @Andy Miller Photo UK
I was filming in Zimbabwe with Z9 and 4K/120fps, the videos were not so long but short after each other. The camera made a overheating warning and swithced off. I will check how long the videos were. But that was definitely not 2hrs but about half an hour or so. It was about 35-38C and I was in the shade. The pause was not very long, perhaps 3-5minutes and camera was OK again but I did put attention on what I am doing to avoid it next time. So, I needed always keep in mind how long I do 4K/120fps.

After I watched a youtube video of Matt Granger about overheating capabilities of Z8, I decided that it will not cope in Africa with the heat. At least, not for video at 4K/120fps. Z8 is also made from a different material than Z9 so, Z9 has definitely better thermo-exchange qualities. And it sucked in Africa. I am afraid, Z8 will suck even faster. So, I am not buying it but my partner will do. I will test Z8 vs Z9 in hot conditions and let you know.

 

[Garfield]

Elena, I'm a little surprised to hear the Z9 was overheating at 4k120p as this is not an oversampled or HQ mode. Was the Z9's Auto Temperature Cutout (in the setup menu) set to high?

 

[Nimi]

I don't know if somebody from us really shooting 2hrs with Z9... ? But I am afraid that we will not come to those limits without camera overheat. At least, folks who are filimng in Africa. @Andy Miller Photo UK
I was filming in Zimbabwe with Z9 and 4K/120fps, the videos were not so long but short after each other. The camera made a overheating warning and swithced off. I will check how long the videos were. But that was definitely not 2hrs but about half an hour or so. It was about 35-38C and I was in the shade. The pause was not very long, perhaps 3-5minutes and camera was OK again but I did put attention on what I am doing to avoid it next time. So, I needed always keep in mind how long I do 4K/120fps.

After I watched a youtube video of Matt Granger about overheating capabilities of Z8, I decided that it will not cope in Africa with the heat. At least, not for video at 4K/120fps. Z8 is also made from a different material than Z9 so, Z9 has definitely better thermo-exchange qualities. And it sucked in Africa. I am afraid, Z8 will suck even faster. So, I am not buying it but my partner will do. I will test Z8 vs Z9 in hot conditions and let you know.

Thanks for the heads up. Shooting extensively in hot and humid tropics this week. No issues so far, but most of the shooting is 8k/24. The camera was on probably six or seven hours yesterday.

 

[Nimi]

Another want: Frame.io capabilities.

 

[ElenaH]

Temperature Cutout (in the setup menu) set to high?

it was set to high.
Matt Granger also mentioned in his youtube video that he was testing Z9 and Z8 in a cool room and that the result can differ for the hot environment. I think, for people who are not filming in the hot enviroment it is not relevant and both cameras will be OK. But for those who is filming in Africa it is a very important point.
The temperatures climbing there uo to +42 Celsius. Normally it is about 36-39 Celsius. The camera must work under this condition. If I cannot use it then I don't need it, right?
I also noticed that Z9 was almost always hot. In comparison D850 was always cool ;-) D850 is very robust but I have never shoot video with 120fps with it

 

[ElenaH]

No issues so far, but most of the shooting is 8k/24.

I think, fps are even more important than resolution or codec. at least I understand it so after watching of Matt Granger video. I assume that 4K is downsampled and camera needs power for recalculation and 120 frames is like continuous shooting of 120 frames pro sec... plus recalculating.

 

[Wes Peterson]

I think, fps are even more important than resolution or codec. at least I understand it so after watching of Matt Granger video. I assume that 4K is downsampled and camera needs power for recalculation and 120 frames is like continuous shooting of 120 frames pro sec... plus recalculating.

What card were you using? Some cards get VERY hot and Im sure that adds to the internal temps of the camera.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

I don't know if somebody from us really shooting 2hrs with Z9... ? But I am afraid that we will not come to those limits without camera overheat. At least, folks who are filming in Africa. @Andy Miller Photo UK
I was filming in Zimbabwe with Z9 and 4K/120fps, the videos were not so long but short after each other. The camera made a overheating warning and switched off. I will check how long the videos were. But that was definitely not 2hrs but about half an hour or so. It was about 35-38C and I was in the shade. The pause was not very long, perhaps 3-5minutes and camera was OK again but I did put attention on what I am doing to avoid it next time. So, I needed always keep in mind how long I do 4K/120fps.
After I watched a youtube video of Matt Granger about overheating capabilities of Z8, I decided that it will not cope in Africa with the heat. At least, not for video at 4K/120fps. Z8 is also made from a different material than Z9 so, Z9 has definitely better thermo-exchange qualities. And it sucked in Africa. I am afraid, Z8 will suck even faster. So, I am not buying it but my partner will do. I will test Z8 vs Z9 in hot conditions and let you know.

@ElenaH -- understood -- I try to avoid those levels of heat - I simply would not survive long let alone the cameras -- I try to travel to africa when it is cooler or limit the times I am on game drives to ultra early and very late in the day - but that means rain and higher grass and shorter game drives ........

Matt Irwin and I exchanged info and we both agree that there is far to little real world or robust testing data to draw any conclusions about the Z8 for now.
Many more tests need to be run using a range of cards and shooting environments.

BUT - I have no doubt that any camera is going to struggle to shoot for long durations in 35-38C or hotter AND especially if also exposed to direct sunlight. SO the Z9 is most probably the better choice between a Z8 and Z9.
I could speak to the many other reasons why I will take my pair of Z9 plus a Z8 when I go back to africa again hopefully later in the year -- and most probably continue to shoot my long teles with a Z9 rather than the so much smaller and lighter Z9 -- even though all these will all be set up as closely to my current Z9 settings as possible.

When shooting with the vid formats and frame rates with highest data requirements one struggles to obtain a card large enough to handle all the files sizes AND Nikon's 2 hour 5 minute limit pushed me down to 32GB cards for some formats.

A 2TB card should last 46.75 mins in 8.3k 60p HQ N-RAW N-log and 75 mins in 4.1k 120p HQ N-RAW N-log (oversampling OFF). AND it does. A 4TB card simply doubles the time or caps out at the Nikon Limit. A 650GB card should last at little over 15 mins in 8.3k 60p and over 24 mins in 4.1k 120p - both HQ N-RAW etc... AND obviously shoot in Normal rather than High Quality uses about 60% of the space that HQ does -- but with the high dynamic ranges we face I had assumed that HQ was a must.

I am using what I believe are the 2 faster and cooler cards I could find the Sabrent Rocket CF-XXIT-2TB and the Angelbird AV Pro 2.0 4TB AND both the 650GB Delkin Black and ProGrade Cobalt -- all cards are x2.0 compliant and work really well and appear to handle heat far better than slightly older but still very fast cards. Cards like the ProGrade Gold are only good for lower res and slower shooting.

This is where I consider that some of the testing falls off a log - if one is going to shot long single duration ultra high res, fps and quality then one should be using the largest and very best cards available.
Nikon has not published a list of approved cards for the Z8 and the list for the Z9 is old -- ie dates back before the x2.0 compliant standard was widely adopted.

Recently (so since last year) a raft of ultra fast x2.0 CF-E Type B cards has hit the market -- one being the Sabrent Rocket and manufacturers like Delkin and Angel Bird have issued newer version of their cards.

I find it difficult to "accept" that MattG was only able to shoot his Z8 in 8.3k 60p N-RAW for 11 mins and 30 seconds before it shut down.
This is very very short and not what I expected.
BUT he is the only one who has posted results so far. AND I do believe he is faithfully reporting the results he recorded -- he has no egg in this race.

However, like many others I hope to receive my Z8 "soon" - on the 25th who knows -- and I will be testing this aspect with the fastest and coolest cards I have. BUT to build a benchmark for comparison I have completed some tests on my Z9, as follows. I only propose to test with the most demanding settings using my benchmark for testing cards of the Z9: both camera and card are cool; battery is fully charged and a Nikon Mains Charger is plugged into the USB-C port (so that the battery is not an issue); High Heat setting; the LCD in the position I tend to use when shooting (slightly out away from the back of the camera), and AUTO-FOCUS switched off on the lens.

When shooting 4.1k 120p HQ N-RAW N-log (oversampling OFF) on a Z9 indoors and not in direct sunlight in an ambient 20 Degrees C temp my Z9 achieved:

2TB sabrent CFE-B card

• Hot Card warning -- NONE
• Hot Camera warning -- NONE
• Camera shut down -- NONE
• SINGLE recording time achieved -- filled the card (all but 3 seconds of remaining record time) with a 75 mins and 45 seconds. No issues

I will repeat this test when my Z8 arrives, test other cards and also perform more "realistic" real world testing.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

A man can dream! The Chinese lenses are oaky, not great and won't pass anyone's close scrutiny. Adapting is fine and I have on order an Atlas Mercury (PL) and i use a few AI-S lenses via FTZ. Wouldn't it be nice if Nikon (or Nikon/Zeiss) had a 3 or a 5-lens set, natively Z, T2.0. Rehouse current lineup w/o AF, with uniform filter thread, long focus throw and gearing belt? But you're of course right, it's not that important.

Re ISO, yes. It would be great to be able to extend the maximum dynamic range down to 64 in Nlog. I'm finding out that I throw away a lot of footage this week because of artifacts and casts from my filters, as expensive as they are. And shooting completely stepped down is also not ideal.

As Wes mentioned earlier, the UI can be improved. Imagine a whole new menu when you flick over to video. Shutter angle, sir? That can't be hard to do in firmware.

Hi N

see -- https://amateurphotographer.com/lat...t-the-possibility-of-introducing-cine-lenses/

"When trying to attract a video audience, a challenge for Nikon is the lack of dedicated video lenses. There are a lot of companies, such as Sigma, making dedicated CINE lenses and it wouldn’t take Nikon a very long time to create it’s own range of CINE lenses…
There are currently no specific lenses for shooting movies in the range right now, but the Nikon Z line-up has many lenses that have a very good feature-set for video. We are looking at the possibility of introducing video-specific lenses, based on market needs, and currently studying this area."

 

[ElenaH]

I am using what I believe are the 2 faster and cooler cards I could find the Sabrent Rocket CF-XXIT-2TB and the Angelbird AV Pro 2.0 4TB AND both the 650GB Delkin Black and ProGrade Cobalt -- all cards are x2.0 compliant and work really well and appear to handle heat far better than slightly older but still very fast cards. Cards like the ProGrade Gold are only good for lower res and slower shooting.

very interesting input! Now I know why I got the camera overheating warning and not of the card - becasue I use Angelbird ;-)

and AUTO-FOCUS switched off on the lens

the problem is that in real life by video I use AF on. You - not? This is actually why I bought Z9 - to be able to film animals and have animal eye-AF, to have them in focus all the time. Then it is not close to real environment, I guess?

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

very interesting input! Now I know why I got the camera overheating warning and not of the card - becasue I use Angelbird ;-)


the problem is that in real life by video I use AF on. You - not? This is actually why I bought Z9 - to be able to film animals and have animal eye-AF, to have them in focus all the time. Then it is not close to real environment, I guess?

It all depends on which Angelbird card -- the AV pro 2.0 appears up to the job -- the 4tb is going through the same test as above and at 1 hour in all is looking good-- ;=}}

AND yes as a rule I do -- but sometimes one just has to pull focus -- go manual -- lions in tall grass; tall grass and tall grass in the Mara plagued me and I spotted it too late. One has to remember that even thought Wide Area AF (any size shape including C1/C2) finds and locks onto the eye - if there is grass in front of the eye the AF will focus on the closest object -- tall grass was a hit and miss for me -- and hurt me in some action sequences when I was shooting stills at 20fps that I then used to create a vid. The safest way for stationary and slow moving is to zoom in to 100% to check focus - not just rely on AF. AND I do have an entirely manual CINE lens by IRIX as well -- but this does not go with me to Africa.

 

[ElenaH]

AND yes as a rule I do -- but sometimes one just has to pull focus -- go manual -- lions in tall grass; tall grass and tall grass in the Mara plagued me and I spotted it too late. One has to remember that even thought Wide Area AF (any size shape including C1/C2) finds and locks onto the eye - if there is grass in front of the eye the AF will focus on the closest object -- tall grass was a hit and miss for me -- and hurt me in some action sequences when I was shooting stills at 20fps that I then used to create a vid. The safest way for stationary and slow moving is to zoom in to 100% to check focus - not just rely on AF. AND I do have an entirely manual CINE lens by IRIX as well -- but this does not go with me to Africa.

that is an excellent input as well! but actually, I hoped that Z9 will cope with grass and stay on eye and not go on closest object as it will DSLR AF (D850, for example)
I aslo often do 100% zooming in EVF but mostly when I use manual lens. Good tips, @Andy Miller Photo UK !
Why you don't you take you IRIX CINE to Africa? Becasue of weight restrictions?

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

I take (took) 4 lenses and 3 bodies and my IRIX is the T3 150mm Macro -- AND AWESOME -- but not a focal length I use for my African subjects -- mainly big cats.
It is really easy to flip the slider on my lenses from AF to M and there one goes in full manual with a flip of a single switch -- very quick to get back into AF should action happen
I have also selected settings for how the manual focussing performs -- set f9 to MAX. to maximise the focus ring throw range ; f10 is set to LOW and on occasions I also f11 to swap focus ring and control ring roles.

Update -- the 4TB Angelbird AV PRO did not get past 68 mins (1.77TB ) before the camera shut down recording 4.1k 120p HQ N-RAW N-LOG on my Z9. ARGH !!!
--- I will allow everything to cool completely and try again in the morning ....

But I suspect the Sabrent card is very fast and the Angelbird a little less so.

 

[Nimi]

Hi N

see -- https://amateurphotographer.com/lat...t-the-possibility-of-introducing-cine-lenses/

"When trying to attract a video audience, a challenge for Nikon is the lack of dedicated video lenses. There are a lot of companies, such as Sigma, making dedicated CINE lenses and it wouldn’t take Nikon a very long time to create it’s own range of CINE lenses…
There are currently no specific lenses for shooting movies in the range right now, but the Nikon Z line-up has many lenses that have a very good feature-set for video. We are looking at the possibility of introducing video-specific lenses, based on market needs, and currently studying this area."

Thank you, great news. I'll post my opinion on the Sirui 35mm T2.8 later, but as they say here, "no bueno."

 

[Garfield]

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