Great job Steve & congrats for a very fair comparison. As a person who owns both, I can add that my choice for Video is Z9 & for BiFs & Stills is A1
Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 - Wildlife Shootout!
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PhD69
Well-known member
@Steve
Very interesting video because it is adapted to the practice of wildlife photography.
It was not easy to avoid the pitfall of a Nikon/Sony war and you succeeded brilliantly.
The differentiating factor is really the lenses.
To date, Nikon is leading the way. Notably with the integrated TC 1.4.
Having switched a few years ago from Nikon to Sony, today I might not make the same choice, mainly because of the optics, where I look with envy the 400 TC and 600 TC from Nikon (I have 2 A1 + 600mm GM + 200/600... so, at the same time, I’m not to be pitied).
That said, given Sony’s financial base and its research and development capacity, new and innovative products can be expected.
Just look at the progress of the II versions of the 24/70 GM and 70/200 GM to see the smaller dimensions, reduced weights and increased functionality.
What Sony could do to close the gap on the 400mm and 600mm Nikon:
1/ Release versions with integrated TC
2/ Release a “TC 1.4 adapter” with magnification setting per button (more or less a TC 1,4 form factor, with the ability to activate/deactivate the extra glass). This would have the advantage of adapting to the current versions of 400 and 600 Sony.
3/ Release a body with a sensor with more pixels to crop in the camera and thus have the equivalent of 400 *1.4 and 600 *1.4
4/ Cumulate 2/ and 3/
Let's see what happens in the coming months
Very interesting video because it is adapted to the practice of wildlife photography.
It was not easy to avoid the pitfall of a Nikon/Sony war and you succeeded brilliantly.
The differentiating factor is really the lenses.
To date, Nikon is leading the way. Notably with the integrated TC 1.4.
Having switched a few years ago from Nikon to Sony, today I might not make the same choice, mainly because of the optics, where I look with envy the 400 TC and 600 TC from Nikon (I have 2 A1 + 600mm GM + 200/600... so, at the same time, I’m not to be pitied).
That said, given Sony’s financial base and its research and development capacity, new and innovative products can be expected.
Just look at the progress of the II versions of the 24/70 GM and 70/200 GM to see the smaller dimensions, reduced weights and increased functionality.
What Sony could do to close the gap on the 400mm and 600mm Nikon:
1/ Release versions with integrated TC
2/ Release a “TC 1.4 adapter” with magnification setting per button (more or less a TC 1,4 form factor, with the ability to activate/deactivate the extra glass). This would have the advantage of adapting to the current versions of 400 and 600 Sony.
3/ Release a body with a sensor with more pixels to crop in the camera and thus have the equivalent of 400 *1.4 and 600 *1.4
4/ Cumulate 2/ and 3/
Let's see what happens in the coming months
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Steve, your video reinforces a view I have had for some time - a “best camera” is a very personal thing. Good video, as always.
Excellent video and comparison. That was certainly a lot of work comparing the two systems feature by feature in detail and backing it with photo examples and practical comments.
The lock ups I'm referring to in the video aren't the "send it back to Nikon" ones we saw here. Rather, the camera just stops responding and I have to pull the battery. It doesn't happen often, but I think it's pretty common among Z9s. I've been out with other shooters using the Z9 and saw it happen to them. Not a big deal, just inconvenient.
As for video, I know enough to set the camera for HD or 4K, but that's about it. It's enough to shoot the YT videos, B-roll, etc, but I have never gotten deep into like video RAW shooting or anything.
Kjellis
Well-known member
I have a feeling Sony will catch up - however, I think the only viable one of the list is #1@Steve
Very interesting video because it is adapted to the practice of wildlife photography.
It was not easy to avoid the pitfall of a Nikon/Sony war and you succeeded brilliantly.
The differentiating factor is really the lenses.
To date, Nikon is leading the way. Notably with the integrated TC 1.4.
Having switched a few years ago from Nikon to Sony, today I might not make the same choice, mainly because of the optics, where I look with envy the 400 TC and 600 TC from Nikon (I have 2 A1 + 600mm GM + 200/600... so, at the same time, I’m not to be pitied).
That said, given Sony’s financial base and its research and development capacity, new and innovative products can be expected.
Just look at the progress of the II versions of the 24/70 GM and 70/200 GM to see the smaller dimensions, reduced weights and increased functionality.
What Sony could do to close the gap on the 400mm and 600mm Nikon:
1/ Release versions with integrated TC
2/ Release a “TC 1.4 adapter” with magnification setting per button (more or less a TC 1,4 form factor, with the ability to activate/deactivate the extra glass). This would have the advantage of adapting to the current versions of 400 and 600 Sony.
3/ Release a body with a sensor with more pixels to crop in the camera and thus have the equivalent of 400 *1.4 and 600 *1.4
4/ Cumulate 2/ and 3/
Let's see what happens in the coming months
For an on/ff TC, you'd need glass for both focal lengths. You couldn't just put a TC on where the elements slip away because it would turn into an extension tube and not allow infinity focus. So, you'd need to swap in another set of elements that kept it form happening. The added length of the converter would also knock the F/stop down I think, regardless of if the TC was engaged or not.
Cropping is not an option either since it doesn't change the focal length, just the field of view. The lens would still have the depth of field characteristics of the original focal length, so although the viewfinder would look like an 840mm lens, the depth of field would still be that of a 600 F/4, not an 800 5.6 (which is a bit shallower). In addition, another reason our backgrounds look so nice with longer glass is because the lens magnifies the out of focus areas behind the subject. That doesn't happen when you crop but does when you use a TC. In short, you would lose subject isolation. Plus, the more you crop, the worse the output noise compared to filling the frame (somewhat negated by the difference in F/stop if you have to increase ISO instead of dropping shutter speed).
I agree 100% and have told them the same. I have people contact me all the time who got tired of waiting and switched to Sony. I don't see them switching back.
Darrellhar
Well-known member
I agree with others that you were very brave to do this comparison because there is always going to be people that disagree with you. This is what the internet is there for these days isn't it? LOL. Your video was very fair and brought up many great points. I really like the fact that you bring up the point that they are very close at this point and switching for most probably wouldn't make sense. You get tired of hearing people talk about making the switch then having to justify that switch by talking bad about xyz brand. At this point if you can't get decent images with the cameras that are out there you really should spend more time practicing that complaining. Keep up the fantastic work Steve.
That’s a mistake I see people making, They think the only way to shoot good videos is the RAW formats and color grading, etc.
@Steve, your video look great and is much better than you think.
I will elaborate a little bit more about video.
The art of video is ‘telling a story’
Video acts like a long exposure. It is shooting 30, 60 or 120 frames per second, that is allot of light photons per second. And you don’t need the extensive raw editing to tell the story because our eyes are seeing what’s happening and our brains is doing what it does when we see it live.
So the trick to good video is to capture the scene as realistic as possible.
With video it’s possible to capture when it’s nearly dark and still convey the story.
With video you don’t need fast shutter speeds, and it’s much easier to get away with higher ISO.
The challenge in video is knowing in post what to cut and what to leave behind. For a 10 minute video, sometimes you only use 5 seconds of it. That’s the difficult part to master which is a learning curve with some practice.
As per the camera settings, all the fancy Nlog, RAW, 10bit, 422, is for special case scenarios.
The Camera settings right out of the gate even at 1080P H.264 and at lower Bit rate will produce gorgeous footage, because the lenses are amazing, and what you shoot is amazing - hopefully.
I would say, to let the Z9 10 bit oversample to 4K 120fps (120 should you want to slow-mo some cuts of the video).
Just set the profile settings to a bit more flat, like camera natural, and that is all you need to touch up in post very quickly. Add an adjustment layer and move the saturation up a bit, the sharpening up a bit, the shadows- if needed- a bit, pull the blacks a bit, and that’s it.
Focus on telling a story. After you cut, go back 10 seconds in the timeline and play again to get the feel of the transition to the next cut. If its too boring, you’ll find it out right then. You don’t need fancy transitions at the cuts.
Add some quiet background music, I use AudioBlocks.
Remember, the more you edit the more you’ll learn the technique of shooting stable video. Some videos can benefit from post warps which could stabilize the video even further. (Please don’t overdo it…)
Then… Export… That is a topic to discuss and it is a learning curve with practice. The same file can be 590mb or 122mb and look almost identical on screen. Remember, that unlike a picture that we like to pinch and zoom, we don’t do that while watching video.
Don’t be afraid to handhold long lenses and follow a bird. Go out and practice, it’s Sunday Funday!
Enjoy!
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PhD69
Well-known member
" the only viable one of the list is #1"... that is what I fear as well.I have a feeling Sony will catch up - however, I think the only viable one of the list is #1
For an on/ff TC, you'd need glass for both focal lengths. You couldn't just put a TC on where the elements slip away because it would turn into an extension tube and not allow infinity focus. So, you'd need to swap in another set of elements that kept it form happening. The added length of the converter would also knock the F/stop down I think, regardless of if the TC was engaged or not.
Cropping is not an option either since it doesn't change the focal length, just the field of view. The lens would still have the depth of field characteristics of the original focal length, so although the viewfinder would look like an 840mm lens, the depth of field would still be that of a 600 F/4, not an 800 5.6 (which is a bit shallower). In addition, another reason our backgrounds look so nice with longer glass is because the lens magnifies the out of focus areas behind the subject. That doesn't happen when you crop but does when you use a TC. In short, you would lose subject isolation. Plus, the more you crop, the worse the output noise compared to filling the frame (somewhat negated by the difference in F/stop if you have to increase ISO instead of dropping shutter speed).
And we’re gonna have to open the wallet again.
Thank you for responding in detail
Rectory Photography
Well-known member
A good review Steve....very interesting.
Sony firstly needs to improve their firmware updates....add extra features such as pro capture and improved af performance..
My A1's af actually became significantly worse after the last firmware update, even with a fresh install and factory reset.....
They do also need to copy Nikons lenses with built in Tele as Nikon is emulating Sonys 200-600. Why not a built in 1.4 and 2x together (I expect there are technical issues, but why not dream )
I do though prefer Sonys 30fps..... For my photography, that makes a big difference from 20fps and Sonys compressed raw is perfectly acceptable for my work.
Sony firstly needs to improve their firmware updates....add extra features such as pro capture and improved af performance..
My A1's af actually became significantly worse after the last firmware update, even with a fresh install and factory reset.....
They do also need to copy Nikons lenses with built in Tele as Nikon is emulating Sonys 200-600. Why not a built in 1.4 and 2x together (I expect there are technical issues, but why not dream
)I do though prefer Sonys 30fps..... For my photography, that makes a big difference from 20fps and Sonys compressed raw is perfectly acceptable for my work.
Another great video. @Steve, you should run for an elected office. Great political dodging of the question. BTW, did you study economics in school - an economist favorite expression is "on the other hand"
If you ever make an addendum to this video, please include videography. Though I seldom shoot videos, I plan to do more and having the capability to do so, is important.
On a some what more serious but nit picking note - as you report Sony has animal and birds. If I remember my biology correctly, birds are animals. Would the correct labels be mammals and birds? Then what about reptiles?
If you ever make an addendum to this video, please include videography. Though I seldom shoot videos, I plan to do more and having the capability to do so, is important.
On a some what more serious but nit picking note - as you report Sony has animal and birds. If I remember my biology correctly, birds are animals. Would the correct labels be mammals and birds? Then what about reptiles?
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I'm using the terms Nikon and Sony do - and yes, I cringe a little when I say it
I'm using the terms Nikon and Sony do - and yes, I cringe a little when I say it
As I said, I was nit picking. How well does the Sony AF work if you set the system to AF animals and try to focus on a bird? Also does it AF animal work well on reptiles?
With Sony, animals = mammals. There is a very noticeable difference when using mammals or birds. If you try to get even an easy bird with "Animals" selected, it generally won't find the eye at all. Switch to "Birds" and it's instantly on it. The reverse it true as well.
Hit and miss with reptiles / amphibians in either mode. I just use single point. For the images below, I just stuck the AF point right on the face / eye, no subject detection.
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thanks.
Does Sony have the equivalent of pre-capture?Call me crazy (my wife does), but I've decided to dance through the minefield of brand fanatics by publishing a video comparing the Nikon Z9 and the Sony a1 for wildlife photography. As someone who owns and is heavily invested in both systems, I get a LOT of questions from people asking which is "best" or at least what the differences are.
This video will compare ergonomics, controls, colors, ISO AF systems, and much more. I think you'll find the comparisons surprising. Enjoy the video - and I'll brace myself for the comments!
Nope. Although, as a RAW shooter, Nikon doesn't for me, either
I think we'll see RAW support for pre-capture in both cameras in the MK2 versions for sure. I'd be shocked if we didn't.
Hopefully we will see it. I am bit surprised that Nikon did not support raw pre-capture, but that could make the interface a bit more complicated. Ideally there would be a button to turn on pre-capture.Nope. Although, as a RAW shooter, Nikon doesn't for me, either
I think we'll see RAW support for pre-capture in both cameras in the MK2 versions for sure. I'd be shocked if we didn't.
paulreinstein
Member
No doubt we live in a photographically plentiful age. I shot Nikon way back at the dawn of digital, Canon mostly since, and Sony most recently (3 years now). They're all techno-amazing. I wish i had the money just to buy a body and a kit lens from each, just to follow/appreciate the technology and be able to help friends set their cameras up. But so far, I have not won the lottery, so, I stick with sony (a1). (retired engineer here)
Something else worth noting is that even below the flagship level of the major brands, you can get great shots. It seems to me that in the end, its a numbers game. With the flagships your keeper rate is 90%+ (which makes culling harder), and with lesser cameras, the keeper rate goes down. A classic 'be careful what you ask for' situation if ever there were one.
Finally, I think you're right about the glass currently available with Nikon giving them the final edge, but only if you're ready to drop some dough on the habit. I wish Sony would come out with a built in converter, or a fresnel based long lens (like Nikon's PF or Canon's DO lenses). Sony, are you listening?
Something else worth noting is that even below the flagship level of the major brands, you can get great shots. It seems to me that in the end, its a numbers game. With the flagships your keeper rate is 90%+ (which makes culling harder), and with lesser cameras, the keeper rate goes down. A classic 'be careful what you ask for' situation if ever there were one.
Finally, I think you're right about the glass currently available with Nikon giving them the final edge, but only if you're ready to drop some dough on the habit. I wish Sony would come out with a built in converter, or a fresnel based long lens (like Nikon's PF or Canon's DO lenses). Sony, are you listening?
Wonder if Nikon has enough patents in this area to keep Sony and Canon copying them. After all, Red has patented any the idea of compressing 6K and 8K videos and claims that they need to be paid royalties if a companies has compressed 6/8K video. Not sure if this will hold up in court.
I recently rented a Sony A7r5 and they have a bird mode and an animal mode and an insect mode. As we know, birds and insects are animals. As Steve clarified, they mean mammal when they put animal, something that drives me nuts too. I tried it on a couple reptiles and it did not work at all. I did however leave it on animal/bird combo mode and it seemed to work well on both, though you can choose one or the other alone if you are specifically working on that group. As I said this is with A7r5 - not sure if A1 has the combo mode.
Nikon USA rep said that engineering (I assume he meant in Japan) are looking into how to actually implement pre/post RAW capture.
Funny thing about pre capture.
My heart rate always goes up when I’m doing mission critical shooting. I found my self anxious not to lose the shot and I’m doing pre capture on my own by actually pressing the shutter.
Perhaps I should give pre-capture a try even if it’s JPEG.
The Z9 has many great features I haven’t had a chance to try
Funny thing about pre capture.
My heart rate always goes up when I’m doing mission critical shooting. I found my self anxious not to lose the shot and I’m doing pre capture on my own by actually pressing the shutter.
Perhaps I should give pre-capture a try even if it’s JPEG.
The Z9 has many great features I haven’t had a chance to try
Forgive my ignorance, but what is "pre-capture"?
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