No shuttercount - is it important when buying a mirrorless camera?

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Erasmus667

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I've been in touch with a couple of reputable retailers regarding used mirrorless cameras advertised on their websites. I couldn't find anywhere which showed the shuttercount which I use as a guide to how much use the camera has had. I contacted both of them and said that the shuttercount gives me some idea as to whether the previous owner was an light-user amateur or heavy-user professional. Both of the retailers said that they weren't able to give me that information but that the items I was interested in had been fully refurbished and were in mint condition. As the items have been fully refurbished and come with a one-year warranty, am I being over-cautious in needing a shutter-count? I look forward to your comments.
 
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using ExifTool you can see Shuttercount and mechanical shuttercount ... the first registers the images taken by the sensor


---- ExifTool ----


ExifToolVersion: 12.65


---- System ----


FileName: PCM_0015.NEF


Directory: /Users/patrickmolloy/Pictures/Nikon Z8/20240117


FileSize: 52 MB


FileModifyDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:51+00:00


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FileInodeChangeDate: 2024:01:17 12:16:26+00:00


FilePermissions: -rw-r--r--


---- File ----


FileType: NRW


FileTypeExtension: nrw


MIMEType: image/x-nikon-nrw


ExifByteOrder: Little-endian (Intel, II)


---- IFD0 ----


Make: NIKON CORPORATION


Model: NIKON Z 8


Orientation: Horizontal (normal)


Software: Ver.01.01


ModifyDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50


Artist: Patrick Molloy


ThumbnailOffset: 219452


ThumbnailLength: 11594


ReferenceBlackWhite: 0 255 0 255 0 255


Copyright: 2023 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Patrick Molloy


DateTimeOriginal: 2024:01:17 12:08:50


TIFF-EPStandardID: 1 0 0 0


ThumbnailImage: (Binary data 11594 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- SubIFD ----


JpgFromRawStart: 939008


JpgFromRawLength: 2231446


YCbCrPositioning: Co-sited


JpgFromRaw: (Binary data 2231446 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- SubIFD1 ----


ImageWidth: 8280


ImageHeight: 5520


BitsPerSample: 14


Compression: Nikon NEF Compressed


PhotometricInterpretation: Color Filter Array


SamplesPerPixel: 1


RowsPerStrip: 5520


XResolution: 300


YResolution: 300


PlanarConfiguration: Chunky


ResolutionUnit: inches


CFARepeatPatternDim: 2 2


CFAPattern2: 0 1 1 2


---- SubIFD2 ----


OtherImageStart: 331776


OtherImageLength: 606784


OtherImage: (Binary data 606784 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- SubIFD5 ----


SubfileType: Reduced-resolution image


StripOffsets: 0


StripByteCounts: 0


ThumbnailTIFF: (Binary data 210 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- XMP-xmp ----


CreatorTool: NIKON Z 8 Ver.01.01


Rating: 0


---- XMP-crd ----


Exposure2012: 0.33


Highlights2012: -21


Shadows2012: 10


LuminanceSmoothing: 53


LuminanceNoiseReductionDetail: 75


LuminanceNoiseReductionContrast: 0


ColorNoiseReduction: 25


ColorNoiseReductionDetail: 50


ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness: 50


SharpenRadius: 2.00


SharpenDetail: 25


SharpenEdgeMasking: 0


Contrast2012: 0


Clarity2012: 2


Texture: 4


CameraProfile: Camera Neutral


HueAdjustmentRed: 0


HueAdjustmentOrange: 0


HueAdjustmentYellow: 0


SaturationAdjustmentRed: 0


SaturationAdjustmentOrange: 0


SaturationAdjustmentYellow: 0


LuminanceAdjustmentRed: 0


LuminanceAdjustmentOrange: 0


LuminanceAdjustmentYellow: 0


---- ExifIFD ----


ExposureTime: 1/50


FNumber: 7.1


ExposureProgram: Manual


ISO: 560


SensitivityType: Recommended Exposure Index


RecommendedExposureIndex: 560


CreateDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50


OffsetTime: +01:00


OffsetTimeOriginal: +01:00


OffsetTimeDigitized: +01:00


ExposureCompensation: 0


MeteringMode: Multi-segment


LightSource: Unknown


Flash: No Flash


FocalLength: 600.0 mm


UserComment:


SubSecTime: 96


SubSecTimeOriginal: 96


SubSecTimeDigitized: 96


SensingMethod: One-chip color area


FileSource: Digital Camera


SceneType: Directly photographed


CustomRendered: Custom


ExposureMode: Manual


FocalLengthIn35mmFormat: 600 mm


SceneCaptureType: Standard


GainControl: None


Contrast: Normal


Saturation: Normal


Sharpness: Normal


SubjectDistanceRange: Unknown


SerialNumber: 6008623


LensInfo: 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3


LensMake: NIKON


LensModel: NIKKOR Z 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR


LensSerialNumber: 20025529


CompositeImage: Not a Composite Image


---- Nikon ----


MakerNoteVersion: 2.11


Quality: RAW


WhiteBalance: Auto1


FocusMode: AF-C


FlashSetting:


FlashType:


WB_RBLevels: 1.966796875 1.53125 1 1


ProgramShift: 0


ExposureDifference: 0


ExternalFlashExposureComp: 0


FlashExposureBracketValue: 0.0


ExposureBracketValue: 0


CropHiSpeed: FX Uncropped (8280x5520 cropped to 8280x5520 at pixel 0,0)


ExposureTuning: 0


ColorSpace: sRGB


VRInfoVersion: 0200


VibrationReduction: On


VRType: In-body + Lens


ActiveD-Lighting: Normal


PictureControlVersion: 0302


PictureControlName: Neutral


PictureControlBase: Neutral


PictureControlAdjust: Quick Adjust


PictureControlQuickAdjust: n/a


MidRangeSharpness: 1.00


Clarity: 0.50


Brightness: Normal


Hue: None


FilterEffect: n/a


ToningEffect: n/a


ToningSaturation: n/a


DaylightSavings: Yes


DateDisplayFormat: D/M/Y


ISOExpansion: Off


ISO2: 1008


ISOExpansion2: Off


VignetteControl: Normal


AutoDistortionControl: On


ShutterMode: Electronic


MechanicalShutterCount: 0


BlackLevel: 1008 1008 1008 1008


ImageSizeRAW: Large


WhiteBalanceFineTune: 0 0


CropArea: 12 8 8256 5504


ColorTemperatureAuto: 5170


FirmwareVersion51: 01020501


NEFCompression: Lossless


BurstGroupID: 0


LensType: VR


Lens: 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3


FlashMode: Did Not Fire


ShootingMode: Single-Frame, Auto ISO


LensFStops: 5.00


ContrastCurve: (Binary data 578 bytes, use -b option to extract)


ShotInfoVersion: 0806


FirmwareVersion: 01.01.01


FirmwareVersion2: 01.00.e0


FirmwareVersion3: 01.00.00


NumberOffsets: 27


FocusShiftShooting: Off


IntervalShooting: Off


RollAngle: 2.8


PitchAngle: -0.8


YawAngle: -13.7


HighFrameRate: Off


MultipleExposureMode: Off


PhotoShootingMenuBank: A


ExtendedMenuBanks: On


PhotoShootingMenuBankImageArea: FX


AutoISO: On


ISOAutoShutterTime: 1/4000 s


DiffractionCompensation: On


FlickerReductionShooting: Off


VRMode: Normal


BracketSet: AE


BracketProgram: Disabled


BracketIncrement: 1.0


HDR: Off


SecondarySlotFunction: Overflow


DXCropAlert: On


SubjectDetection: Auto


PortraitImpressionBalance: Off


MovieFlickerReduction: Auto


MovieAFAreaMode: Auto


TimeZone: +00:00 (London)


HDMIOutputResolution: Auto


NoiseReduction: Off


NEFLinearizationTable: (Binary data 46 bytes, use -b option to extract)


ColorBalanceVersion: 0803


LensDataVersion: 0802


LensMountType: Z-mount Lens


MaxAperture: 6.3


FocusDistance: 11.14 m


LensPositionAbsolute: 12310


RetouchHistory: None


ShutterCount: 5331


FlashInfoVersion: 0301


FlashSource: None


ExternalFlashFirmware: n/a


ExternalFlashFlags: (none)


FlashCommanderMode: Off


FlashControlMode: Off


FlashGNDistance: 0


FlashColorFilter: None


FlashGroupAControlMode: Off


FlashGroupBControlMode: Off


FlashGroupCControlMode: Off


FlashIlluminationPattern: Standard


FlashGroupACompensation: +0.3


FlashGroupBCompensation: +0.3


FlashGroupCCompensation: +0.3


VariProgram:


MultiExposureVersion: 0103


MultiExposureMode: Off


MultiExposureShots: 0


MultiExposureOverlayMode: Add


HighISONoiseReduction: Normal


PowerUpTime: 2024:01:12 15:53:29


AFInfo2Version: 0400


AFAreaMode: Wide (C1/C2)


AFImageWidth: 8256


AFImageHeight: 5504


AFAreaXPosition: 4128


FocusPositionHorizontal: C


AFAreaYPosition: 2752


FocusPositionVertical: C


AFAreaWidth: 1327


AFAreaHeight: 905


FocusResult: Focus


FileInfoVersion: 0100


MemoryCardNumber: 0


DirectoryNumber: 102


FileNumber: 0015


AFFineTune: Off


AFFineTuneIndex: n/a


AFFineTuneAdj: 0


AFFineTuneAdjTele: 0


RetouchInfoVersion: 0200


RetouchNEFProcessing: Off


SilentPhotography: Off


---- PreviewIFD ----


PreviewImageStart: 100556


PreviewImageLength: 118877


PreviewImage: (Binary data 118877 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- NikonCustom ----


CustomSettingsBank: A


AF-CPrioritySelection: Release


AF-SPrioritySelection: Focus


BlockShotAFResponse: 3 (Normal)


AFPointSel: Use All


StoreByOrientation: Focus Point


AFActivation: AF-On Only


AF-AssistIlluminator: Off


ManualFocusRingInAFMode: On


ExposureControlStepSize: 1/3 EV


EasyExposureCompensation: Off


CenterWeightedAreaSize: 8 mm


FineTuneOptMatrixMetering: 0


FineTuneOptCenterWeighted: 0


FineTuneOptSpotMetering: 0


FineTuneOptHighlightWeighted: 0


ShutterReleaseButtonAE-L: Off


SelfTimerTime: 10 s


SelfTimerShotCount: 1


SelfTimerShotInterval: 0.5 s


PlaybackMonitorOffTime: 10 s


MenuMonitorOffTime: 5 min


ShootingInfoMonitorOffTime: 4 s


ImageReviewMonitorOffTime: 10 min


CLModeShootingSpeed: 8 fps


MaxContinuousRelease: 30


FileNumberSequence: On


ContinuousModeDisplay: On


FlashSyncSpeed: 1/200 s


HighSpeedSync: Off


FlashShutterSpeed: 1/60 s


FlashExposureCompArea: Entire Frame


AutoFlashISOSensitivity: Subject and Background


ModelingFlash: On


AutoBracketModeM: Flash/Speed


AutoBracketOrder: 0,-,+


Func1Button: Recall Shooting Functions (Hold)


Func2Button: AF-AreaMode + AF-On


AFOnButton: AF-On


LensFunc1Button: AF-AreaMode + AF-On


LensFunc2Button: AF-AreaMode + AF-On


LensControlRing: ISO Sensitivity


MultiSelectorShootMode: Zoom


MultiSelectorPlaybackMode: Zoom


ShutterSpeedLock: Off


ApertureLock: Off


CmdDialsReverseRotExposureComp: 0


CmdDialsReverseRotation: No


MovieFunc1Button: Hi-Res Zoom+


MovieFunc2Button: Hi-Res Zoom-


MovieAF-OnButton: AF-On


MovieLensControlRing: Power Aperture


MovieAFSpeed: 0


MovieAFSpeedApply: Always


MovieAFTrackingSensitivity: 4 (Normal)


ExtendedShutterSpeeds: On


SubjectMotion: Steady


FocusPointPersistence: Auto


CHModeShootingSpeed: 15 fps


ISOStepSize: 1/3 EV


ReverseFocusRing: Not Reversed


ControlRingResponse: High


AF-CFocusDisplay: On


KeepExposure: Off


PreReleaseBurstLength: None


PostReleaseBurstLength: 1 Sec


DispButton: DISP - Cycle Information Display (shooting)


---- GPS ----


GPSVersionID: 2.3.0.0


---- Composite ----


Aperture: 7.1


BlueBalance: 1.53125


CFAPattern: [Red,Green][Green,Blue]


ImageSize: 8280x5520


Megapixels: 45.7


RedBalance: 1.966797


ScaleFactor35efl: 1.0


ShutterSpeed: 1/50


SubSecCreateDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50.96+01:00


SubSecDateTimeOriginal: 2024:01:17 12:08:50.96+01:00


SubSecModifyDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50.96+01:00


LensSpec: 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR


CircleOfConfusion: 0.030 mm


DOF: 0.14 m (11.07 - 11.21 m)


FOV: 3.3 deg (0.63 m)


FocalLength35efl: 600.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 600.0 mm)


HyperfocalDistance: 1687.54 m


LensID: NIKKOR Z 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR


LightValue: 8.8


---- SubIFD3 ----


PreviewTIFF: (Binary data 98514 bytes, use -b option to extract)
 
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sorry about my previous post. It’s everything from the tool.
while we all know mechanical shutters can fail, I've never heard of a sensor failing. Go for it !
 
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Adding to what @Patrick M said above, if a reputable dealer describes the equipment as in mint condition and we know a mirrorless camera has no mechanical shutter to wear out, you are probably good to purchase the product, especially if it comes with a 1-year warranty.
 
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Erasmus667 said:
I've been in touch with a couple of reputable retailers regarding used mirrorless cameras advertised on their websites. the items have been fully refurbished and come with a one-year warranty, am I being over-cautious in needing a shutter-count? I look forward to your comments.
Click to expand...
It's ok to be cautious - I'd be more curious about what was refurbished - simple clean or what ever was done.
 
I think not every brand has the shutter count in exif. Nikon does I believe but I don't think Canon does. I think there are other tools to get it from Canon. If the place has a free return policy maybe you can check it out further when you get it.
 
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Member's gallery
Years ago a friend wanted to sell his Canon camera. At that time, neither he nor I ever found a way to get shutter count for it. Being a Nikon user, I had always taken this for granted!
 
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I've just hit the keys and ordered the kit from Nikon's website. I've got a 14-day period in which I can return free-of-charge it if not satisfied. I'll use the links you've kindly sent me to check the shuttercount. If it's too high I'll send the kit back for a refund. Many thanks to everyone for their help. It's very much appreciated.
 
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Erasmus667 said:
I've just hit the keys and ordered the kit from Nikon's website. I've got a 14-day period in which I can return free-of-charge it if not satisfied. I'll use the links you've kindly sent me to check the shuttercount. If it's too high I'll send the kit back for a refund. Many thanks to everyone for their help. It's very much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Congrats! You’ll love it!
in my reply I linked to ExifTool. It’s free. I suggest you down load and check the count for your own peace of mind
 
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I don't believe that shutter count includes video or if it does, I suspect that it would record "1" for each video on/off cycle rather than the total number of "frames". There's no exif that I am aware of which records total sensor "on" time.
 
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If your on a Mac and use Pathfinder it will be listed when you get info on any image from the camera. I know this does not help you in this particular case. Pathfinder is an alternative file browser, it is similar to finder, but has more tools and is what I have used for years. If you have a SetApp subscription, it is available there.
 
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To check shutter count I use Photoshop, e.g. when I buy a new camera I take one photo, open the raw file in Adobe Photoshop go File > File Info and scroll down to raw data section and look for ImageNumber.
 
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The Z7ii will actually give you two shutter counts. It still has a mechanical shutter, but chances are that that count is significantly lower than the electronic shutter count.
 
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Erasmus667 said:
I've just hit the keys and ordered the kit from Nikon's website. I've got a 14-day period in which I can return free-of-charge it if not satisfied. I'll use the links you've kindly sent me to check the shuttercount. If it's too high I'll send the kit back for a refund. Many thanks to everyone for their help. It's very much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Hope it works out for you. I just bought a Z8 refurb recently that I'm pleased with. It had 5 actuations and appeared to be in new condition. FYI- you probably already know this, but a refurb from Nikon should have a 3 month warranty based on my experience.
 
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Member's gallery
Be careful about relying too much on shutter counts. There are a number of repairs that reset the shutter count. If you have a very low shutter count, the camera should look like new in every way.

On the other hand, it's probably more important to inspect the camera for physical wear. If you see a lot of damage to the mount, wear on the bottom of the camera, or damage to the exterior surfaces of the camera, the camera has had lots of hard use.
 
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splatbass said:
I'm not sure how important shutter count is on mirrorless cameras with electronic shutters.
Click to expand...
I get your point. I think where it can possibly make a difference is through overall wear and tear on the camera. For example, while my Z9 is shutterless, I’ve used it heavily. After a year, the rubber eye ring was shot, and now the selection wheels are wearing out. Not expensive repairs like a shutter or mirror, but some things that need to be maintained. I suppose the camera body curtain and perhaps the IBIS mechanism eventually need repair/replacement.
 
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ARClark said:
I get your point. I think where it can possibly make a difference is through overall wear and tear on the camera. For example, while my Z9 is shutterless, I’ve used it heavily. After a year, the rubber eye ring was shot, and now the selection wheels are wearing out. Not expensive repairs like a shutter or mirror, but some things that need to be maintained. I suppose the camera body curtain and perhaps the IBIS mechanism eventually need repair/replacement.
Click to expand...
True. I usually buy used gear from MPB because they show actual pics of the camera/lens you are buying - from multiple angles, not just a generic picture.
 
The z7ii does have a mechanical shutter too. No way to tell how many of each have been shot.
 
Ad Astra said:
To check shutter count I use Photoshop, e.g. when I buy a new camera I take one photo, open the raw file in Adobe Photoshop go File > File Info and scroll down to raw data section and look for ImageNumber.
Click to expand...

I think most cameras can reset the image number though, no?
 
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