No shuttercount - is it important when buying a mirrorless camera?

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Image numbers but not shutter count/actuations, at least for Nikons.

Yes but that poster was suggesting looking in photoshop at the image number to find out the shutter count. I was just saying If it was reset that might not always work.
 
The normal reason for a reset shutter count is replacement of the shutter or replacement of the main camera board. The main board is often the part that is damaged when a camera is dropped or has shock damage of any kind. It's somewhat delicate compared to the rest of the camera. But it is more reliable to replace the board than to trouble shoot it and diagnose and repair intermittent problems.
 
The Nikon Z9 and Z8 have no mechanical shutters. However, if you want to see how many images the camera has recorded, that information is available and written to each NEF file. You can open an NEF image in Mac's Preview App > Tools Menu > Show Inspector > click on "info" which is the icon of a 1 in a circle > click the Nikon Tab > data shown will now include "Shutter Count".
 
using ExifTool you can see Shuttercount and mechanical shuttercount ... the first registers the images taken by the sensor


---- ExifTool ----


ExifToolVersion: 12.65


---- System ----


FileName: PCM_0015.NEF


Directory: /Users/patrickmolloy/Pictures/Nikon Z8/20240117


FileSize: 52 MB


FileModifyDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:51+00:00


FileAccessDate: 2024:01:17 12:16:26+00:00


FileInodeChangeDate: 2024:01:17 12:16:26+00:00


FilePermissions: -rw-r--r--


---- File ----


FileType: NRW


FileTypeExtension: nrw


MIMEType: image/x-nikon-nrw


ExifByteOrder: Little-endian (Intel, II)


---- IFD0 ----


Make: NIKON CORPORATION


Model: NIKON Z 8


Orientation: Horizontal (normal)


Software: Ver.01.01


ModifyDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50


Artist: Patrick Molloy


ThumbnailOffset: 219452


ThumbnailLength: 11594


ReferenceBlackWhite: 0 255 0 255 0 255


Copyright: 2023 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Patrick Molloy


DateTimeOriginal: 2024:01:17 12:08:50


TIFF-EPStandardID: 1 0 0 0


ThumbnailImage: (Binary data 11594 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- SubIFD ----


JpgFromRawStart: 939008


JpgFromRawLength: 2231446


YCbCrPositioning: Co-sited


JpgFromRaw: (Binary data 2231446 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- SubIFD1 ----


ImageWidth: 8280


ImageHeight: 5520


BitsPerSample: 14


Compression: Nikon NEF Compressed


PhotometricInterpretation: Color Filter Array


SamplesPerPixel: 1


RowsPerStrip: 5520


XResolution: 300


YResolution: 300


PlanarConfiguration: Chunky


ResolutionUnit: inches


CFARepeatPatternDim: 2 2


CFAPattern2: 0 1 1 2


---- SubIFD2 ----


OtherImageStart: 331776


OtherImageLength: 606784


OtherImage: (Binary data 606784 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- SubIFD5 ----


SubfileType: Reduced-resolution image


StripOffsets: 0


StripByteCounts: 0


ThumbnailTIFF: (Binary data 210 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- XMP-xmp ----


CreatorTool: NIKON Z 8 Ver.01.01


Rating: 0


---- XMP-crd ----


Exposure2012: 0.33


Highlights2012: -21


Shadows2012: 10


LuminanceSmoothing: 53


LuminanceNoiseReductionDetail: 75


LuminanceNoiseReductionContrast: 0


ColorNoiseReduction: 25


ColorNoiseReductionDetail: 50


ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness: 50


SharpenRadius: 2.00


SharpenDetail: 25


SharpenEdgeMasking: 0


Contrast2012: 0


Clarity2012: 2


Texture: 4


CameraProfile: Camera Neutral


HueAdjustmentRed: 0


HueAdjustmentOrange: 0


HueAdjustmentYellow: 0


SaturationAdjustmentRed: 0


SaturationAdjustmentOrange: 0


SaturationAdjustmentYellow: 0


LuminanceAdjustmentRed: 0


LuminanceAdjustmentOrange: 0


LuminanceAdjustmentYellow: 0


---- ExifIFD ----


ExposureTime: 1/50


FNumber: 7.1


ExposureProgram: Manual


ISO: 560


SensitivityType: Recommended Exposure Index


RecommendedExposureIndex: 560


CreateDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50


OffsetTime: +01:00


OffsetTimeOriginal: +01:00


OffsetTimeDigitized: +01:00


ExposureCompensation: 0


MeteringMode: Multi-segment


LightSource: Unknown


Flash: No Flash


FocalLength: 600.0 mm


UserComment:


SubSecTime: 96


SubSecTimeOriginal: 96


SubSecTimeDigitized: 96


SensingMethod: One-chip color area


FileSource: Digital Camera


SceneType: Directly photographed


CustomRendered: Custom


ExposureMode: Manual


FocalLengthIn35mmFormat: 600 mm


SceneCaptureType: Standard


GainControl: None


Contrast: Normal


Saturation: Normal


Sharpness: Normal


SubjectDistanceRange: Unknown


SerialNumber: 6008623


LensInfo: 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3


LensMake: NIKON


LensModel: NIKKOR Z 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR


LensSerialNumber: 20025529


CompositeImage: Not a Composite Image


---- Nikon ----


MakerNoteVersion: 2.11


Quality: RAW


WhiteBalance: Auto1


FocusMode: AF-C


FlashSetting:


FlashType:


WB_RBLevels: 1.966796875 1.53125 1 1


ProgramShift: 0


ExposureDifference: 0


ExternalFlashExposureComp: 0


FlashExposureBracketValue: 0.0


ExposureBracketValue: 0


CropHiSpeed: FX Uncropped (8280x5520 cropped to 8280x5520 at pixel 0,0)


ExposureTuning: 0


ColorSpace: sRGB


VRInfoVersion: 0200


VibrationReduction: On


VRType: In-body + Lens


ActiveD-Lighting: Normal


PictureControlVersion: 0302


PictureControlName: Neutral


PictureControlBase: Neutral


PictureControlAdjust: Quick Adjust


PictureControlQuickAdjust: n/a


MidRangeSharpness: 1.00


Clarity: 0.50


Brightness: Normal


Hue: None


FilterEffect: n/a


ToningEffect: n/a


ToningSaturation: n/a


DaylightSavings: Yes


DateDisplayFormat: D/M/Y


ISOExpansion: Off


ISO2: 1008


ISOExpansion2: Off


VignetteControl: Normal


AutoDistortionControl: On


ShutterMode: Electronic


MechanicalShutterCount: 0


BlackLevel: 1008 1008 1008 1008


ImageSizeRAW: Large


WhiteBalanceFineTune: 0 0


CropArea: 12 8 8256 5504


ColorTemperatureAuto: 5170


FirmwareVersion51: 01020501


NEFCompression: Lossless


BurstGroupID: 0


LensType: VR


Lens: 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3


FlashMode: Did Not Fire


ShootingMode: Single-Frame, Auto ISO


LensFStops: 5.00


ContrastCurve: (Binary data 578 bytes, use -b option to extract)


ShotInfoVersion: 0806


FirmwareVersion: 01.01.01


FirmwareVersion2: 01.00.e0


FirmwareVersion3: 01.00.00


NumberOffsets: 27


FocusShiftShooting: Off


IntervalShooting: Off


RollAngle: 2.8


PitchAngle: -0.8


YawAngle: -13.7


HighFrameRate: Off


MultipleExposureMode: Off


PhotoShootingMenuBank: A


ExtendedMenuBanks: On


PhotoShootingMenuBankImageArea: FX


AutoISO: On


ISOAutoShutterTime: 1/4000 s


DiffractionCompensation: On


FlickerReductionShooting: Off


VRMode: Normal


BracketSet: AE


BracketProgram: Disabled


BracketIncrement: 1.0


HDR: Off


SecondarySlotFunction: Overflow


DXCropAlert: On


SubjectDetection: Auto


PortraitImpressionBalance: Off


MovieFlickerReduction: Auto


MovieAFAreaMode: Auto


TimeZone: +00:00 (London)


HDMIOutputResolution: Auto


NoiseReduction: Off


NEFLinearizationTable: (Binary data 46 bytes, use -b option to extract)


ColorBalanceVersion: 0803


LensDataVersion: 0802


LensMountType: Z-mount Lens


MaxAperture: 6.3


FocusDistance: 11.14 m


LensPositionAbsolute: 12310


RetouchHistory: None


ShutterCount: 5331


FlashInfoVersion: 0301


FlashSource: None


ExternalFlashFirmware: n/a


ExternalFlashFlags: (none)


FlashCommanderMode: Off


FlashControlMode: Off


FlashGNDistance: 0


FlashColorFilter: None


FlashGroupAControlMode: Off


FlashGroupBControlMode: Off


FlashGroupCControlMode: Off


FlashIlluminationPattern: Standard


FlashGroupACompensation: +0.3


FlashGroupBCompensation: +0.3


FlashGroupCCompensation: +0.3


VariProgram:


MultiExposureVersion: 0103


MultiExposureMode: Off


MultiExposureShots: 0


MultiExposureOverlayMode: Add


HighISONoiseReduction: Normal


PowerUpTime: 2024:01:12 15:53:29


AFInfo2Version: 0400


AFAreaMode: Wide (C1/C2)


AFImageWidth: 8256


AFImageHeight: 5504


AFAreaXPosition: 4128


FocusPositionHorizontal: C


AFAreaYPosition: 2752


FocusPositionVertical: C


AFAreaWidth: 1327


AFAreaHeight: 905


FocusResult: Focus


FileInfoVersion: 0100


MemoryCardNumber: 0


DirectoryNumber: 102


FileNumber: 0015


AFFineTune: Off


AFFineTuneIndex: n/a


AFFineTuneAdj: 0


AFFineTuneAdjTele: 0


RetouchInfoVersion: 0200


RetouchNEFProcessing: Off


SilentPhotography: Off


---- PreviewIFD ----


PreviewImageStart: 100556


PreviewImageLength: 118877


PreviewImage: (Binary data 118877 bytes, use -b option to extract)


---- NikonCustom ----


CustomSettingsBank: A


AF-CPrioritySelection: Release


AF-SPrioritySelection: Focus


BlockShotAFResponse: 3 (Normal)


AFPointSel: Use All


StoreByOrientation: Focus Point


AFActivation: AF-On Only


AF-AssistIlluminator: Off


ManualFocusRingInAFMode: On


ExposureControlStepSize: 1/3 EV


EasyExposureCompensation: Off


CenterWeightedAreaSize: 8 mm


FineTuneOptMatrixMetering: 0


FineTuneOptCenterWeighted: 0


FineTuneOptSpotMetering: 0


FineTuneOptHighlightWeighted: 0


ShutterReleaseButtonAE-L: Off


SelfTimerTime: 10 s


SelfTimerShotCount: 1


SelfTimerShotInterval: 0.5 s


PlaybackMonitorOffTime: 10 s


MenuMonitorOffTime: 5 min


ShootingInfoMonitorOffTime: 4 s


ImageReviewMonitorOffTime: 10 min


CLModeShootingSpeed: 8 fps


MaxContinuousRelease: 30


FileNumberSequence: On


ContinuousModeDisplay: On


FlashSyncSpeed: 1/200 s


HighSpeedSync: Off


FlashShutterSpeed: 1/60 s


FlashExposureCompArea: Entire Frame


AutoFlashISOSensitivity: Subject and Background


ModelingFlash: On


AutoBracketModeM: Flash/Speed


AutoBracketOrder: 0,-,+


Func1Button: Recall Shooting Functions (Hold)


Func2Button: AF-AreaMode + AF-On


AFOnButton: AF-On


LensFunc1Button: AF-AreaMode + AF-On


LensFunc2Button: AF-AreaMode + AF-On


LensControlRing: ISO Sensitivity


MultiSelectorShootMode: Zoom


MultiSelectorPlaybackMode: Zoom


ShutterSpeedLock: Off


ApertureLock: Off


CmdDialsReverseRotExposureComp: 0


CmdDialsReverseRotation: No


MovieFunc1Button: Hi-Res Zoom+


MovieFunc2Button: Hi-Res Zoom-


MovieAF-OnButton: AF-On


MovieLensControlRing: Power Aperture


MovieAFSpeed: 0


MovieAFSpeedApply: Always


MovieAFTrackingSensitivity: 4 (Normal)


ExtendedShutterSpeeds: On


SubjectMotion: Steady


FocusPointPersistence: Auto


CHModeShootingSpeed: 15 fps


ISOStepSize: 1/3 EV


ReverseFocusRing: Not Reversed


ControlRingResponse: High


AF-CFocusDisplay: On


KeepExposure: Off


PreReleaseBurstLength: None


PostReleaseBurstLength: 1 Sec


DispButton: DISP - Cycle Information Display (shooting)


---- GPS ----


GPSVersionID: 2.3.0.0


---- Composite ----


Aperture: 7.1


BlueBalance: 1.53125


CFAPattern: [Red,Green][Green,Blue]


ImageSize: 8280x5520


Megapixels: 45.7


RedBalance: 1.966797


ScaleFactor35efl: 1.0


ShutterSpeed: 1/50


SubSecCreateDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50.96+01:00


SubSecDateTimeOriginal: 2024:01:17 12:08:50.96+01:00


SubSecModifyDate: 2024:01:17 12:08:50.96+01:00


LensSpec: 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR


CircleOfConfusion: 0.030 mm


DOF: 0.14 m (11.07 - 11.21 m)


FOV: 3.3 deg (0.63 m)


FocalLength35efl: 600.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 600.0 mm)


HyperfocalDistance: 1687.54 m


LensID: NIKKOR Z 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 VR


LightValue: 8.8


---- SubIFD3 ----


PreviewTIFF: (Binary data 98514 bytes, use -b option to extract)
I fell asleep before I got to the end of the file😊 Was the shutter count buried in there somewhere?
 
I've been in touch with a couple of reputable retailers regarding used mirrorless cameras advertised on their websites. I couldn't find anywhere which showed the shuttercount which I use as a guide to how much use the camera has had. I contacted both of them and said that the shuttercount gives me some idea as to whether the previous owner was an light-user amateur or heavy-user professional. Both of the retailers said that they weren't able to give me that information but that the items I was interested in had been fully refurbished and were in mint condition. As the items have been fully refurbished and come with a one-year warranty, am I being over-cautious in needing a shutter-count? I look forward to your comments.
I agree with your concern and desire to know the shutter count although I don't know how telltale that number would be if, in the extreme case, one always took photos with the burst rate at 120/sec😊
 
Adding to what @Patrick M said above, if a reputable dealer describes the equipment as in mint condition and we know a mirrorless camera has no mechanical shutter to wear out, you are probably good to purchase the product, especially if it comes with a 1-year warranty.

My Fujis have both a mechanical and electronic shutter as does my Z6ii.
 
As far as I know the only milc cameras with no mechanical shutter are the z9/z8. I know Canon has all 3 types in the R series, I believe Sony has all 3 types.
 
Sorry, but if a dealer does not want to disclose shutter count, then they're probably hiding the fact that it's high. Finding the count is not a hard thing to do. They sell these things for a living--they know. I would not hesitate to tell them "no sale without EXIF shutter count". You'll probably find they will suddenly be able to find one.

(Patrick, you can delete, edit, and trim posts.)

Chris
 
If I'm not mistaken the only used dealers I'm aware of (US), or at least had dealings with, that publishes the shutter count is MPB. They show the shutter count on their used DSLR body's but not mirrorless. I can't remember why not on mirrorless but you can check out their FAQ page and they explain it. I don't think KEH has ever published shutter counts.

Very recently I traded with MPB for a LN Nikon Z6 II. When I received the camera I put a lens on and took a picture to get the shutter count. That picture was the 1,900th actuation. Not sure if Nikon counts all actuations, mechanical and electronic or just mechanical but I was pleased. Now if it would have been some sort of high shutter count or something ridiculous like 100,000 then I would have just exercised my 30 day return option. I would like to know the shutter count before I order but I think those days are gone with mirrorless and now mirrorless with no mechanical shutters at all. $0.02
 
Adding to what @Patrick M said above, if a reputable dealer describes the equipment as in mint condition and we know a mirrorless camera has no mechanical shutter to wear out, you are probably good to purchase the product, especially if it comes with a 1-year warranty.
A lot of
I've just hit the keys and ordered the kit from Nikon's website. I've got a 14-day period in which I can return free-of-charge it if not satisfied. I'll use the links you've kindly sent me to check the shuttercount. If it's too high I'll send the kit back for a refund. Many thanks to everyone for their help. It's very much appreciated.
I've bought the Z7ii + 24-120 kit. It'll be interesting to see how it compares with my trusty D800 and F-mount 24-120.
As others have noted Z7II has a mechanical shutter. In fact I think all Z's except the Z9 and Z8 have mechanical shutters.

I had not been out with my wife birding when she had her Z7II along for most of the winter. Did today and heard all this noise next to me :) I had gotten to used to the very low pitch low volume electronic sound I set in my Z9 so I know if I am shooting accidentally :) and forgot hers had a mechanical shutter and that it was that loud :)
 
If I'm not mistaken the only used dealers I'm aware of (US), or at least had dealings with, that publishes the shutter count is MPB. They show the shutter count on their used DSLR body's but not mirrorless. I can't remember why not on mirrorless but you can check out their FAQ page and they explain it. I don't think KEH has ever published shutter counts.

Very recently I traded with MPB for a LN Nikon Z6 II. When I received the camera I put a lens on and took a picture to get the shutter count. That picture was the 1,900th actuation. Not sure if Nikon counts all actuations, mechanical and electronic or just mechanical but I was pleased. Now if it would have been some sort of high shutter count or something ridiculous like 100,000 then I would have just exercised my 30 day return option. I would like to know the shutter count before I order but I think those days are gone with mirrorless and now mirrorless with no mechanical shutters at all. $0.02
Used Photo Pro often includes the shutter count on their bodies.

--Ken
 
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