That was a good article. The part showing the before/after using Adobe standard vs. Color Checker profiles was interesting. Looking at each individual color my eyes were not detecting a difference between the two. I'm sure there must be subtle differences that I would see in Photoshop on the calibrated monitor, but my point is that it is not a "This will change your life" kind of thing. That said, I do go to the bother, just looking for that 1% better.
Passport Color Checker on Feb 8 ONLY
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That was a good article. The part showing the before/after using Adobe standard vs. Color Checker profiles was interesting. Looking at each individual color my eyes were not detecting a difference between the two. I'm sure there must be subtle differences that I would see in Photoshop on the calibrated monitor, but my point is that it is not a "This will change your life" kind of thing. That said, I do go to the bother, just looking for that 1% better.
I use a colorchecker as I'm a bit colour blind so what looks good to me probably looks c**p to everyone else.
Saw this. Got excited. 
Went to the link. It's not on sale! :(
Came back and saw the original post was two days ago.
Went to the link. It's not on sale! :(
Came back and saw the original post was two days ago.
Agree. ThoughI must admit this subject baffles me somewhat. Buying a colour checker to use once seems strange. I'd expect to use it once for any location shoots I'm at.
What stops me is that whenever I change colour profiles on my iMac 5k - and I use Affinity Photo which makes it hard anyways, the colours look awful ... to me. I'm happy leaving the "profile" at default levels.
I don't print. So probably not that crucial to me.
good read.
You don't just use it once, you use it for different lighting conditions. I have Winter Sun, bright, grey day window light and t he same for Spring, Summer and Autumn for both of my cameras. I have another for studio flash, and always carry it in case I find myself in an odd light situation. I saw a video before I bought it where someone was shooting a model under some trees and the green cast was quite bad. Even I could see it. Using the colorchecker created a profile that neutralised the cast.
If the light hitting the sample card at the moment you take the shot for the profile has a color cast then the resulting image using that profile will have true standard colors with no cast under the same lighting. So in a tricky situation you could include the color card in a test photo in that same light and if the light had a color cast it is going to return true colors without the cast. But if you take a generic sample in light with no color cast, for example noon on a cloudless summer day it will return true colors for that situation, but when you you use that profile for a sunset for example it will have the red/yellow cast until you dial in the white balance or choose to keep the warm cast. I guess it's not magic, but a sampling tool that has its uses. At least if you have the profiles you can look at them and choose to ignore them.
Karen, it can change depending upon the amount and color temperature of the reflected light, as well. Shooting at greatly different altitudes can play a factor, as well.
I have a device called Expo Disc that goes over the front element of the lens which is very good for a quick white balance reference in different lighting conditions. If I'm really concerned about color correction, I take a shot with the Expo Disc several times during a shoot, depending upon my perceptions of light temperature changes as I go along. I worked with one pro who wouldn't go more than about 4-to-5 minutes between Expo Disc shots when she was shooting in the latter half of the golden hour.
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Yes, I realize that. That is the reason it is important to use daylight where you are normally shooting to create the custom camera profile. If you go to a dramatically different part of the globe, then you should create another profile for that area.
I think in that case of golden hour it would yield a white balanced shot if you made the profile using a color checker shot in the warm light, and you could then warm it up if desired using the white balance slider, but if using a color checker profile shot at noon it would already give a warm image at sunset since the Color Checker was shot in unbiased light.
The color Checker also includes warm and cool adjustment targets. So you could get a balanced image using the Color Checker profile but then use the eyedropper tool to dial in x amount of warm or cool.
JoPoV
Active member
The color charts allow to obtain faithful colors according to the different lights that illuminate the subject.
I started as a film operator at the time of the silver film.
The process was very precise.
First of all the equipment was calibrated before shooting by the first assistant operator.
This phase consisted in going to the rental company to test the camera and the optics used (really those which were going to be used for the shooting and not identical models, because differences exist between a same model of camera and a same model of optics) with a calibrated lighting (very precise key light, etc.).
All this with a batch of film that came from the same batch of film used (because differences exist for each batch even for the same model of film).
And this tested with the same process and devellopement products coming also from the same manufacturing batch that would be used for the shooting.
Once these tests were done, the camera, optics, film and devellopement process were calibrated.
Then, at the time of the shooting, for each shot, a color chart was filmed at the beginning of the shot before the clap, to allow the staff of the lab to be able to adjust the devellopement in order to restore faithful colors on the positive from the negative.
In wildlife photography, it is more difficult to place a color chart for each new light condition encountered.
I started as a film operator at the time of the silver film.
The process was very precise.
First of all the equipment was calibrated before shooting by the first assistant operator.
This phase consisted in going to the rental company to test the camera and the optics used (really those which were going to be used for the shooting and not identical models, because differences exist between a same model of camera and a same model of optics) with a calibrated lighting (very precise key light, etc.).
All this with a batch of film that came from the same batch of film used (because differences exist for each batch even for the same model of film).
And this tested with the same process and devellopement products coming also from the same manufacturing batch that would be used for the shooting.
Once these tests were done, the camera, optics, film and devellopement process were calibrated.
Then, at the time of the shooting, for each shot, a color chart was filmed at the beginning of the shot before the clap, to allow the staff of the lab to be able to adjust the devellopement in order to restore faithful colors on the positive from the negative.
In wildlife photography, it is more difficult to place a color chart for each new light condition encountered.
I think the part that is similar, though is that files from different cameras even identical models running on different raw converters can result in color differences that the color Checker can adjust for.
Jack 13088
New member
I wish I had considered that with a leopard. I have a great shot of one in a gully in the shade watching a herd of Buffalo run by. But I never could adjust the colors to capture the colors in that fur. Maybe out of gambit for displays and printing?I'll try the color checker though placing it next to a sleeping lion might be a once in the lifetime challenge
Were you shooting raw?
Glen
Active member
Karen, I have a question regarding white eye dropper as it relates to Passport Color Checker. I’ve read your postings and understand you only shoot outdoors with sun as source of light, be it full son or cloudy, it’s still the source of light as you explain. So with that as the backdrop my question pertains to another light source; LED Lighting and my use of it. I shot a well exposed Calbite Color Checker photo, created what I named a Slide DNG Profile in LrC, and import my slides from my D850/60mm afs /Nikon adapter using live view, pin point auto focus. Ive left white balance ’as shot’. I see mixed utube Calbite sponsored wherein the eyedropper is used for “correct”white balance with the color checker photographed in the scene, and other where nope, the color checker smarts know the correct white balance so leave ‘as shot’. I lean to as shot because anything else is guesswork. Am I correct in this assumption? As an aside to this question I find my MacPro screen profile overly saturated I believe on Apple calibrated D65, whereas Adobe RGB not so. So a further question lingers for me which is to step up and purchase Calbrite Pro. Here’s a pic of piece parts I assembled for LED light usage I posted in slide conversion topic header.
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As I understand it, you are using an LED light to illuminate the slide, which was taken in sun light. You are then selecting the LED customer camera color profile for processing the image digitally.
First the camera profile is to ensure the raw image has accurate color. But in this case the slide was not taken under LED lights, but the original image (the slide) was taken using natural light.
What s/w do you use for raw processing? I use LR/ACR. IF it were me and the colors looked a bit off after selecting the Slide profile you created using LED lighting, I would use the White Balance tool (eye dropper) in ACR. I assume you also have a customer camera profile for sun lit images? You might also switch to that camera profile, since the slide original was created under natural light.
Hope this helps...........
First the camera profile is to ensure the raw image has accurate color. But in this case the slide was not taken under LED lights, but the original image (the slide) was taken using natural light.
What s/w do you use for raw processing? I use LR/ACR. IF it were me and the colors looked a bit off after selecting the Slide profile you created using LED lighting, I would use the White Balance tool (eye dropper) in ACR. I assume you also have a customer camera profile for sun lit images? You might also switch to that camera profile, since the slide original was created under natural light.
Hope this helps...........
I think the best bet is to make a profile with the color checker illuminated by the same light as the eventual subject. Use that profile but also use one of the grey squares with the eyedropper to double check the white balance. So in that last part the color checker is just an expensive white balance card.
Another option is to make a dual illuminant profile that would be a more general profile for LED or sunlight, but stick check the white balance against a known neutral such as one of the grays in the color checker.
Another option is to make a dual illuminant profile that would be a more general profile for LED or sunlight, but stick check the white balance against a known neutral such as one of the grays in the color checker.
Glen
Active member
Thanks for reply. Yes, your understanding in first sentence is correct. Yes, I use Lightroom Classic and can access ACR if need be. I do all edits in LRC and not ACR. I use Bridge to see ACR if I want RAW look there. I don't use Photoshop as most is doable in LrC. Indeed, I also have a full sun lit dng profile also. The questionable white balance is tricky given some are flash (mostly of family indoors shot by others) some are outdoors sun lit. Thus white drooper question is a crap shoot. The crap shoot is what I'm trying to eliminate. Possible? Is it your view that white dropper in ACR would be more accurate than white dropper in LrC? Bill suggests Dual Illuminant which is an alternative but I've shied away from that until I fully understand when to employ white dropper usage via selecting a white square version on the color checker itself. Thank you both Karen and Bill for your input.
ACR and LRC are basically identical. The exact same underlying engine just a little different interface.
Agree with Bill above. LR and ACR are essentially the same. In your case I suggest you use the white eyedropper in LR to address any color tints that may be in the slides, either due to age, flash, incandescent light, etc.
IMHO, while LR has improved a lot over the last few years, it is still not nearly as capable for complex masking and adjustments. I recently processed hundreds of images from a trip using first ACR (same as LR) and then finishing up in PS CC. The cloning and masking in LR was much less accurate than in PS. I did several comparisons of the "select subject" in both ACR versus "select subject" in PS CC. PS was much more accurate. And clean up/cloning in PS CC blends much better.
Now that difference may not be important and/or noticeable in the images you are processing. Especially if you have thousands of slides and just want to process batches to "get through" the task. For me, going from ACR to PS to do final touch ups and sharpening only takes a couple of minutes. And being retired with very little else to do, I embrace the post processing side of photography.
IMHO, while LR has improved a lot over the last few years, it is still not nearly as capable for complex masking and adjustments. I recently processed hundreds of images from a trip using first ACR (same as LR) and then finishing up in PS CC. The cloning and masking in LR was much less accurate than in PS. I did several comparisons of the "select subject" in both ACR versus "select subject" in PS CC. PS was much more accurate. And clean up/cloning in PS CC blends much better.
Now that difference may not be important and/or noticeable in the images you are processing. Especially if you have thousands of slides and just want to process batches to "get through" the task. For me, going from ACR to PS to do final touch ups and sharpening only takes a couple of minutes. And being retired with very little else to do, I embrace the post processing side of photography.
Glen
Active member
Thank you Bill
Yeah, Photoshop is the best for selections, and even better now when you can choose "process in cloud" for some of the tools.
Another cool thing about Photoshop is if one is accustomed to lightroom they can use the camera raw filter over and over on different layers pretty much indefinitely. So it magnifies the value of lightroom/ACR a thousand fold.
Glen
Active member
Thanks Karen and Bill for your replies and most helpful. I feel I'm getting there; rounding bases but still at third base. If I might ask further clarifying questions please. To correct white balance with the eye dropper am I choosing one of the white squares on the Calibrate Color Checker itself (if so first white in the row?) or some where on the photo of the slide itself? I hope not the latter. I'm confused to be sure and never know the proper use of the eyedropper. Me using the eyedropper makes for really messed up photo so I leave it parked and stay with 'as shot'. Question: given the LED is the light source, the slide is the scene, is it not the same as if it were a sun lit live shot outdoors only difference being a different light source? I rightfully or wrongfully concluded the RAW photo shot I take of slides have NO color, and further, the color applied in the Preview I see in LrC is via the Calbrite Led Profile I created; analogous to Nikon Standard Profile etc. Thus the white balance is automatically corrected via the smarts in the Profile itself? Knowing how and when you employ the white dropper in your outdoor photos would help clear the fog for me I believe.
Much appreciated,
Glen
You should be clicking on the image.
The LED profile you created is only a starting point in this case. You have lit the slide with LED light (which is bluish) BUT the slide itself may have been taken in natural light, incandenscent, etc. It is the color of the image on the slide itself that is important. Hence, in this case, there are variables.
After scanning a slide, open it in LR. Do the colors look correct? If not, try choosing a different color profile. Can you find one where the colors for THAT image look natural? Great! If not.....
Are whites whitish - or yellowish - or bluish. If they seem to be slightly off, use the eye dropper to click on a white within the image to adjust the colors. You can then slide slightly adjust the blue-yellow slider only if necessary.
The LED profile you created is only a starting point in this case. You have lit the slide with LED light (which is bluish) BUT the slide itself may have been taken in natural light, incandenscent, etc. It is the color of the image on the slide itself that is important. Hence, in this case, there are variables.
After scanning a slide, open it in LR. Do the colors look correct? If not, try choosing a different color profile. Can you find one where the colors for THAT image look natural? Great! If not.....
Are whites whitish - or yellowish - or bluish. If they seem to be slightly off, use the eye dropper to click on a white within the image to adjust the colors. You can then slide slightly adjust the blue-yellow slider only if necessary.
Glen
Active member
Very Good.......I'll work on images accordingly. Thanks Karen