During last December a colleague ordered a Z8 directly from Nikon and it was stolen while in transit by UPS. It took just over a month to get it settled by UPS and Nikon. I’ve wondered if stolen devices are ever recovered?
Pricing for a used Z8 (as a buyer)
- Thread starter Ever
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Hi Eric, I'm curious about your mentioning that a refurbished camera from Nikon is less than 8 months old. Is that just for the z8?
In other threads there's a lot of difference in opinion on whether refurbished camera bodies are worth it. Perhaps mostly due to the shorter warranty. But I have had good luck with Nikon USA refurb lenses. I agree with you and don't think I'd hesitate if a good deal came up. The recall issues with the z8 have been identified and would be fixed during the refurb.
Thanks.
I agree that taking a chance on a grey market camera is not worth it.
I would at some point want to bring my Z9 in for a general cleaning and calibration check. Not being able to do that with Nikon would be a problem for me. I also remind people that the Z8 had a recall, if I had bought a gray market camera I would not be able to get the recall handled.
I bought used cameras in the past from commercial vendors. I would no longer do that. Either the forum here or the FM forum is a location where you can interact directly with the seller and obtain verifying information on whether the equipment was a genuine US version.
Recently I purchased a used Z 800mm PF lens from the marketplace on this forum. The seller was able to provide me with a copy of the original NPS purchase order.
When you buy a used piece of equipment from a commercial dealer you are going to be charged for sales tax. The days when you could buy camera gear over the internet and not be charged with sales tax are long gone.
When you buy from a private seller you can protect yourself by using Paypal by listing the transaction as purchase of goods or services. There is a fee for that but if the transaction went wrong you would have some recourse against the seller.
The private seller will not charge sales tax. Be aware however that it may not be the end of the issue. Paypal does not collect sales tax but it does report sales transactions to the government. It is possible that information might end up in the hands of your state and you could get a later sales or use tax assessment. Each state has its own laws and some states do not exempt private sales from tax. You can avoid the issue by doing a Paypal transfer that is not identified to a good or service but you have no protection if something goes wrong.
I would at some point want to bring my Z9 in for a general cleaning and calibration check. Not being able to do that with Nikon would be a problem for me. I also remind people that the Z8 had a recall, if I had bought a gray market camera I would not be able to get the recall handled.
I bought used cameras in the past from commercial vendors. I would no longer do that. Either the forum here or the FM forum is a location where you can interact directly with the seller and obtain verifying information on whether the equipment was a genuine US version.
Recently I purchased a used Z 800mm PF lens from the marketplace on this forum. The seller was able to provide me with a copy of the original NPS purchase order.
When you buy a used piece of equipment from a commercial dealer you are going to be charged for sales tax. The days when you could buy camera gear over the internet and not be charged with sales tax are long gone.
When you buy from a private seller you can protect yourself by using Paypal by listing the transaction as purchase of goods or services. There is a fee for that but if the transaction went wrong you would have some recourse against the seller.
The private seller will not charge sales tax. Be aware however that it may not be the end of the issue. Paypal does not collect sales tax but it does report sales transactions to the government. It is possible that information might end up in the hands of your state and you could get a later sales or use tax assessment. Each state has its own laws and some states do not exempt private sales from tax. You can avoid the issue by doing a Paypal transfer that is not identified to a good or service but you have no protection if something goes wrong.
nmerc_photos
Well-known member
I'm seeing a lot of interesting and incorrect stuff here about grey market.
Grey Market only matters for warranty. Nikon will still repair them if damaged. When you're buying used, 99% of the time your purchase is out of warranty anyways - so grey market is not functionally any different than a USA model.
Source: Just had my Z9 + Z 400 TC 2.8 repaired by Nikon, both were purchased on eBay from MAPCamera (Japanese camera store) which would make them grey market.
I have never bought a single piece of Nikon gear new, always used from eBay or FredMiranda. Most of my equipment is grey market from Japan or India. Nikon still lets me register them, and still repairs them without issue.
While owning grey market items themselves is no worry, it is important to verify where you are getting them from. Some of the grey market sellers are very shady and have poor customer service. 6th Avenue Electronics on eBay comes to mind as one with terrible reviews.
Heck you can even read Nikon's own web page about grey market and see what is true and isn't:
gray-market
Shop the latest mirrorless & DSLR cameras and NIKKOR lenses from the official Nikon eCommerce site. Explore our innovations and photo equipment!
www.nikonusa.com
I'd also wager that for anyone buying mainly used gear, they are inevitably going to obtain grey market no matter how thorough they are. Buying used always presents risks. I dropped my Z 400 TC 2.8 from shoulder height onto cement. Externally, you couldn't tell it was anything other than mint condition. I took it the next day and shot thousands of images in the Sax Zim Bog without issue. However, internally - it required $630+ of repairs to fix.
Imagine how many bodies and lenses get knocked around in travel, dropped, fall off tables, etc. and never get checked out because externally everything looks fine. Then the owner throws them on a for sale forum, it swaps hands, and nobody is the wiser.
Buying used is always a risk. If you're not interested in risk taking, buying new from Nikon directly is the only option.
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This is Nikon USA’s definition of “gray market”: Nikon products that are imported and sold by anyone other than Nikon Inc. USA are considered Gray Market products.I'm seeing a lot of interesting and incorrect stuff here about grey market.
Grey Market only matters for warranty. Nikon will still repair them if damaged. When you're buying used, 99% of the time your purchase is out of warranty anyways - so grey market is not functionally any different than a USA model.
Source: Just had my Z9 + Z 400 TC 2.8 repaired by Nikon, both were purchased on eBay from MAPCamera (Japanese camera store) which would make them grey market.
gray-market
Shop the latest mirrorless & DSLR cameras and NIKKOR lenses from the official Nikon eCommerce site. Explore our innovations and photo equipment!
Products purchased from an authorized seller in another country are not considered gray market. I don’t know if Nikon USA will offer warranty service but Nikon USA will perform service paid by the customer. Years ago I bought a D50 and D90 while in Japan. I had them both serviced in 2020 by Nikon USA before I donated them to a local high school for their photography classes. I had the receipts for the purchase of these cameras. I included a copy with the cameras when I sent them for repair.
I also know from personal experience that Nikon products which meet Nikon USA’s gray market definition will not be serviced by Nikon USA at all.
nmerc_photos
Well-known member
Correct, if it is purchased while in the other country and you have the receipt - it is not grey market.
However, none of my gear falls into the above category as it was all imported and purchased in the US. And the majority of people owning non USA models also do not meet the above criteria.
If you have proof of them not touching grey market items, post it - because I've searched and not found a single thing supporting that idea. Just heresay on the internet.
I called in and submitted my serial numbers and was told they were grey market so they did not qualify for warranty, but I was welcome to pay for repairs myself. So I did.
I didn’t keep the communication about Nikon's refusal to do the repair. However, it happened. I have also seen reports occasionally from others with similar experience.
This confusion is exactly why I asked the question. Will Nikon service gray market equipment or no. Does anyone have a definitive answer? Can we get clarification from Nikon?
I suggest calling Nikon USA on Monday morning: (800) 645-6687. I’m sure they’ll provide a definitive answer.
I will do just that and report back.I suggest calling Nikon USA on Monday morning: (800) 645-6687. I’m sure they’ll provide a definitive answer.
Either do that or go to Nikon USA's website and submit for a repair to an item and see what happens.I suggest calling Nikon USA on Monday morning: (800) 645-6687. I’m sure they’ll provide a definitive answer.
This doesn't surprise me. I've recently gotten packages shipped to me that had the containers breached in ways that seem highly unlikely to be other than intentional.
The first Z8 cameras were released in May - about 8 months ago. So for a Z8, every refurbished camera is 8 months old or less - potentially much less. On the other hand, I had a Z7ii stolen and received a refurbished Z7ii to replace it. There were 7 shutter actuations and the body looked brand new - no sign or wear or use at all. But you could just as easily end up with a camera that is 2+ years old and has 100,000 shutter actuations. Note that shutter actuations is not a great indicator of age or use because several repairs can reset the shutter to zero.
I think a warranty is useful, but I would not weight it to high. You can readily buy third party warranties. And what you actually get with a new camera over a refurb is a warranty covering Day 91 to Day 365. Given that most problems show up in the first 30 days, and the camera has already been checked out, it's a modest benefit. Just be sure to give your new camera a good workout over the first 60 days or so.
Likely much in-transit theft can be attributed in great part to what’s happening to train cargo in So. California:
'Like a Third World country': Gov. Newsom decries rail thefts amid push to beef up enforcement
The crush of cargo at the ports of L.A. and Long Beach, plus limited security on rail lines, helped make cargo trains vulnerable to theft, expert say.
www.latimes.com
That's exactly what happened in my case. Only a Z8 and a Z7ii were both stolen at the same time. I was sitting at home waiting for the cameras and a part time delivery person using their car failed to deliver the camera to me. It took slightly over 30 days to resolve - UPS reimbursed Nikon and Nikon replaced both cameras.
Nikon USA maintains a database of stolen camera serial numbers, but they need a police report listing the model and serial number to enter it in their database.
Nikon USA Service has previously refused to service gray market cameras at all. That is their stated policy.
Third party vendors will service the gear if they can get parts. While Nikon maintains it does not sell parts to third party repair companies, it's not that clear cut. My understanding is they do provide some parts to third parties. The bigger issue is providing training and calibration equipment to those companies. Some third party service companies get parts directly from Japan and bypass Nikon USA. There are also parts available from China in some cases.
Which should keep the camera from ever being legitimately registered on Nikon's website, and possibly aid in the recovery of the item.
There is so much in the way of theft-in-distribtuion that it boggles the mind. My brother works for a consumer products company, and he often sees their products for sale online and at flea markets for less than they are wholesaled to retailers for. According to him, this is a very reliable indicator that the items for sale are stolen.
Map Camera's prices for used Z8's are 10% cheaper than a brand new camera from Canadian Authorized Nikon dealers. No thanks.
Woody Meristem
Well-known member
A camera was stolen from my car (dummy had left it in the car overnight) but I had the serial number which I provided to the police. The thief had stolen things from a number of cars, including cash and a pistol and tried to sell my camera on Facebook. The police bought the camera from him and he was charged and convicted. The only reason he was convicted was that I had the serial number; it took a while but I eventually got the camera back.
macwalter
Well-known member
My experience is if you go gray market Nikon will not repair it period and maybe a deeply discounted lens might be worth it but at least for me, not a delicate complex camera body like the z8. I’m willing to bet that I will at some point have to have it serviced and even if out of warranty I can still have that done. Even now you can get a new z8 for 3800 and if you wait a bit they will come down more in another sale.
nmerc_photos
Well-known member
MAP Camera (via eBay) is where I got the majority of my gear. Paid $3,750 for my Z9 and $12,500 for my Z 400 TC 2.8. Both were just repaired by Nikon without issue.
O
Well-known member
With the Z8 Z9 full warranty is you most important consideration given the QC issues.
Buy from a dealer you can trust.
Why do you need a Z8, is a Z6III an option.
Usually prices drop 20 -25% over 2-3 years.
ie: The Z9 has dropped around 25% since launch.
What accelerates price drops is availability, this is if there is a new upgrade or better model launched and owners upgrading look for selling their current models quickly.
Only an opinion
Ever
Member
Thanks for all the discussion. Lots to consider here.
I'm looking at this page from Nikon, and I'm not seeing it explicitly say that they won't repair a grey-market item. The closes statement is, "...not eligible for Nikon USA warranty repair service". I'm not sure if that means they won't repair it, or instead, they'll repair it, but not under warranty
To clarify, this thread was mainly about buying used, so I assumed that this meant buying without warranty (unless they're transferrable which I assumed they weren't).
I'm looking at this page from Nikon, and I'm not seeing it explicitly say that they won't repair a grey-market item. The closes statement is, "...not eligible for Nikon USA warranty repair service". I'm not sure if that means they won't repair it, or instead, they'll repair it, but not under warranty
To clarify, this thread was mainly about buying used, so I assumed that this meant buying without warranty (unless they're transferrable which I assumed they weren't).
andrewluke
Member
the reason i mentioned Panamoz was that you could have new for the price of 2nd hand and have 3 year warranty with panamoz which is better than no warrantyThanks for all the discussion. Lots to consider here.
I'm looking at this page from Nikon, and I'm not seeing it explicitly say that they won't repair a grey-market item. The closes statement is, "...not eligible for Nikon USA warranty repair service". I'm not sure if that means they won't repair it, or instead, they'll repair it, but not under warranty
To clarify, this thread was mainly about buying used, so I assumed that this meant buying without warranty (unless they're transferrable which I assumed they weren't).
I don’t know who Panamoz uses in the USA to fulfill its warranty service obligations. Without knowing that it seems risky.