Problem with moving....

[Mimi76]

Hello everyone,

I don't know if this is here where I can get help.
I have a big problem: when birds and animals move, the pictures are blurred. The shutter speed are ok? I increased teh shutter speed. I am sending you a picture here, I took yesterday it and give you some information. Please help me and explain to me why I can't do it. Thank you very much.

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Exif:
Nikon D7500
Mode: S
AF-C
Single shot
Metering Spot , +0,3
VR200-500mm
1/2000s
f/5,6
Auto ISO 2200

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Exif:
Nikon D7500
Mode: S
AF-C
Single shot
Metering Spot , +0,7
VR200-500mm
1/4000s
f/5,6
Auto ISO 10000

 

[Steve]

That is odd - the first is front focused, the next back focused, so I doubt it's an AF Fine Tuning issue. It's not a shutter speed issue, it's definitely missed focus. I see you are in AF-C, but are you sure you're keeping focus engaged the entire time (i.e. pressing the AF button as you shoot)?

 

[ThackeryBagworm]

The camera seems to be focusing in front of (top photo) or behind (bottom photo) the subject. Maybe the lens needs calibration... maybe a larger aperture would help get more of the subject in focus as well. Every shot can teach us something. Keep shootin’!

 

[DRwyoming]

FWIW, I was thinking along the same lines as Steve above.

If for instance you have focus activation on the shutter release (as opposed to BBAF) and were in AF-C mode but didn't hold the shutter release halfway down or hold in the rear panel AF-ON button with your thumb then the camera wouldn't start trying to focus until you started pressing in the shutter release and if that coincided with the squirrel's movement then the AF would struggle. Holding in the rear panel AF-ON button even when not explicitly using BBAF while in AF-C mode would keep the servo tracking which should help.

The other thoughts that come to mind are:

- In both images the squirrel apparently moved suddenly as evidenced by the focus point no longer being on the eye. Sure, it's not like the back where the focus point was stayed in crisp focus either but for subjects that jump into motion quickly an alternative focus area mode like Group or a small Dynamic AF area mode might help.

- Again it looks like the squirrel went from stationary to moving very rapidly in which case the camera would see that as very erratic motion just like a bird taking off from a perch. If your camera allows you to adjust image tracking (many newer Nikon DSLRs do) I'd adjust it closer to the erratic end of the range instead of the smooth end of the range for subjects that might suddenly burst into motion.

FWIW, I'm also surprised at the way the metering worked. Since you were in spot metering with +0.7 stops of exposure comp dialed in it's surprising that the squirrel ended up so dark. Yeah, the spot metering area is substantially larger than the focus point shown but it still should have almost entirely been on the squirrel, grass and tree yet even with +0.7 stops of comp dialed in those areas are very dark. Personally I save spot metering for landscapes and static subjects and use Matrix metering for anything that moves but even so it's surprising how far off your exposure is for where the spot meter was located in that lower image.

Are these by any chance heavy crops? That would add to the uncertainty of both the AF and exposure performance. IOW, if that lower image is actually a fairly heavy crop then the spot metering area could be overlapping a fair amount of the bright background but if that's a full frame image or close to it the spot metering area should mostly have been down in the darker areas of the image which doesn't really make sense.

 

[Mimi76]

That is odd - the first is front focused, the next back focused, so I doubt it's an AF Fine Tuning issue. It's not a shutter speed issue, it's definitely missed focus. I see you are in AF-C, but are you sure you're keeping focus engaged the entire time (i.e. pressing the AF button as you shoot)?

Thank you so much for your message. I have never used AF Fine Tune and I think I have to do it but It's difficult how to do that. I believe I will bring it to the store and maybe they could do AF Fine tune for me.
Yes, it's a AF button no M. You know I bought your book 2 years or 3 yeas ago and I found it it's very interesting . I like it a lot . I have difficultiies to understand because English is not my first language. I speak French.

 

[Mimi76]

The camera seems to be focusing in front of (top photo) or behind (bottom photo) the subject. Maybe the lens needs calibration... maybe a larger aperture would help get more of the subject in focus as well. Every shot can teach us something. Keep shootin’!

Thank you so much for your message. Yes , you are right I need calibration but I have never used AF Fine Tune and I think I have to do it but It's difficult how to do that. I believe I will bring it to the store and maybe they could do AF Fine tune for me.

 

[DRwyoming]

Thank you so much for your message. Yes , you are right I need calibration but I have never used AF Fine Tune and I think I have to do it but It's difficult how to do that. I believe I will bring it to the store and maybe they could do AF Fine tune for me.

It is always a good idea to do an AF Fine Tune and perhaps your camera store may be able to help you with that. However, in one image the lens appears to front focus, in the other the lens appears to back focus. An AF Fine Tune will not resolve both of those situations so there is something else happening with the focus problems in your images.

To check for focus fine tuning issues try using auto focus on some non-moving, static subjects to see if the camera and lens combination focuses in front of the target or behind the target. In other words, remove the problem of motion for the moment to check if the lens is front focusing or back focusing as those are the things an AF Fine Tune may be able to help.

 

[Mimi76]

FWIW, I was thinking along the same lines as Steve above.

If for instance you have focus activation on the shutter release (as opposed to BBAF) and were in AF-C mode but didn't hold the shutter release halfway down or hold in the rear panel AF-ON button with your thumb then the camera wouldn't start trying to focus until you started pressing in the shutter release and if that coincided with the squirrel's movement then the AF would struggle. Holding in the rear panel AF-ON button even when not explicitly using BBAF while in AF-C mode would keep the servo tracking which should help.

The other thoughts that come to mind are:

- In both images the squirrel apparently moved suddenly as evidenced by the focus point no longer being on the eye. Sure, it's not like the back where the focus point was stayed in crisp focus either but for subjects that jump into motion quickly an alternative focus area mode like Group or a small Dynamic AF area mode might help.

- Again it looks like the squirrel went from stationary to moving very rapidly in which case the camera would see that as very erratic motion just like a bird taking off from a perch. If your camera allows you to adjust image tracking (many newer Nikon DSLRs do) I'd adjust it closer to the erratic end of the range instead of the smooth end of the range for subjects that might suddenly burst into motion.

FWIW, I'm also surprised at the way the metering worked. Since you were in spot metering with +0.7 stops of exposure comp dialed in it's surprising that the squirrel ended up so dark. Yeah, the spot metering area is substantially larger than the focus point shown but it still should have almost entirely been on the squirrel, grass and tree yet even with +0.7 stops of comp dialed in those areas are very dark. Personally I save spot metering for landscapes and static subjects and use Matrix metering for anything that moves but even so it's surprising how far off your exposure is for where the spot meter was located in that lower image.

Are these by any chance heavy crops? That would add to the uncertainty of both the AF and exposure performance. IOW, if that lower image is actually a fairly heavy crop then the spot metering area could be overlapping a fair amount of the bright background but if that's a full frame image or close to it the spot metering area should mostly have been down in the darker areas of the image which doesn't really make sense.

Thank you so much for your message and for your explanation. I'm beginner and I try to undertand. I have difficulties only for teh subjects in movement.Ok I will try to do what you advised me to do. Thank you so much for your tips.

 

[Mimi76]

It is always a good idea to do an AF Fine Tune and perhaps your camera store may be able to help you with that. However, in one image the lens appears to front focus, in the other the lens appears to back focus. An AF Fine Tune will not resolve both of those situations so there is something else happening with the focus problems in your images.

To check for focus fine tuning issues try using auto focus on some non-moving, static subjects to see if the camera and lens combination focuses in front of the target or behind the target. In other words, remove the problem of motion for the moment to check if the lens is front focusing or back focusing as those are the things an AF Fine Tune may be able to help.

Here are 3 pictures non moving. I think I don't have any problem for non moving... What do you think? could you tell me please. Are they ok? thank you ....

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[DRwyoming]

I think I don't have any problem for non moving... What do you think? could you tell me please. Are they ok? thank you ....

I would say those are fine, especially the bottom image of the squirrel. Assuming you had the focus point on the eye it looks like it achieved focus right where you needed it.

In the top image of the smaller bird there might be a very small amount of front focus as the green perch is very sharp as it extends very slightly in front of the bird. The bird's eye is very sharp but if you actually had the focus point directly over the eye then perhaps some of the elements like the perch that are very slightly in front of the eye may be sharper. This is very hard to evaluate on these web images that have been downsized and also where I can only guess where the focus point was set when the image was captured.

I would say if you have any AF Fine Tuning issues, they are very, very small and they are not the root cause of the moving squirrel issues posted at the beginning of this thread.

Going back to the original squirrel in motion issues, did you have the back panel AF-ON button pressed both when the squirrel was motionless on the tree and did you continue to hold it in as the squirrel jumped forward and you pressed the shutter release?

Alternatively, if you did not use the back panel AF-ON button, did you hold the shutter release half pressed down when the squirrel was stationary on the tree and then continue to keep it half pressed down as the squirrel jumped off the tree and you pressed the shutter all the way down to capture the image?

If you allowed the focus tracking to turn off, either by releasing the rear panel AF-ON button or taking your finger off of the shutter release half press while the squirrel was stationary on the tree and then quickly pressed the shutter release button as the squirrel jumped forward then I would expect the kind of problems you posted in those moving images. In other words, if the auto focus system had to start from the beginning to try to acquire the jumping squirrel and was not already continuously tracking the subject as it stood still then I would expect poor auto focus results.

 

[Mimi76]

I would say those are fine, especially the bottom image of the squirrel. Assuming you had the focus point on the eye it looks like it achieved focus right where you needed it.

In the top image of the smaller bird there might be a very small amount of front focus as the green perch is very sharp as it extends very slightly in front of the bird. The bird's eye is very sharp but if you actually had the focus point directly over the eye then perhaps some of the elements like the perch that are very slightly in front of the eye may be sharper. This is very hard to evaluate on these web images that have been downsized and also where I can only guess where the focus point was set when the image was captured.

I would say if you have any AF Fine Tuning issues, they are very, very small and they are not the root cause of the moving squirrel issues posted at the beginning of this thread.

Going back to the original squirrel in motion issues, did you have the back panel AF-ON button pressed both when the squirrel was motionless on the tree and did you continue to hold it in as the squirrel jumped forward and you pressed the shutter release?

Alternatively, if you did not use the back panel AF-ON button, did you hold the shutter release half pressed down when the squirrel was stationary on the tree and then continue to keep it half pressed down as the squirrel jumped off the tree and you pressed the shutter all the way down to capture the image?

If you allowed the focus tracking to turn off, either by releasing the rear panel AF-ON button or taking your finger off of the shutter release half press while the squirrel was stationary on the tree and then quickly pressed the shutter release button as the squirrel jumped forward then I would expect the kind of problems you posted in those moving images. In other words, if the auto focus system had to start from the beginning to try to acquire the jumping squirrel and was not already continuously tracking the subject as it stood still then I would expect poor auto focus results.

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thank you so much for your message and your help. , here are 2 pictures with focus point . what do you think of second picture . I made focus on the eye.

I have to practice with the subjects in moving and I found that it's hard

 

[DRwyoming]

here are 2 pictures with focus point . what do you think of second picture . I made focus on the eye.

Based on these I see no AF Fine Tune problem at all with your camera and lens combination. The first image makes perfect sense as the camera focused on the breast which is ever so slightly in front of the eye. That explains why the green perch that is also very slightly in front of the eye was so sharp.

The second image where the focus point was directly over the eye resulted in a very sharp (tack sharp as we say) eye.

I see no fine tune problems at all.

I have to practice with the subjects in moving and I found that it's hard

Yes, it's a constant challenge and one of the field skills we try to develop as nature photographers as our subjects rarely stay perfectly still.

I do use Single Point AF Area Mode for perched birds and most slow moving or stationary subjects as it gives me my most precise AF Area selection. But if I expect action I use either Group AF Mode or a small Dynamic AF Area mode like D25 (or D9 on cameras that support this very small dynamic mode). Those modes are a bit more forgiving for situations where I can't perfectly keep the Single Point right where I want it in the image.

I believe it's a good exercise to practice keeping the Single Point right where you want it as a bird or other subject twitches and moves and glances left, right, up and down. It will help your photography to get good at those small and constant adjustments. But you might also experiment with a small Dynamic Area Mode like D25 that gives you a little more tolerance for errors but also less control over precise AF point placement. Group is also a good mode but it will tend to focus on objects closest to the camera which is not always what we want though it can be very good for things like flying birds.

The other way to add a little margin for error is to stop down the lens perhaps half to a full stop from wide open aperture. That will provide a little more Depth of Field and cover over very small focus point placement issues like the Single Point on the bird's breast. But it may also bring some of the background elements into a bit sharper focus depending on how far they are behind your subject so that can be a tradeoff of slightly better focus where you want it but not quite as much subject isolation or less background blur for backgrounds that are fairly close to your subject. But it is one way to get a little more tolerance for small focusing errors.

 

[Steve]

Thank you so much for your message. I have never used AF Fine Tune and I think I have to do it but It's difficult how to do that. I believe I will bring it to the store and maybe they could do AF Fine tune for me.
Yes, it's a AF button no M. You know I bought your book 2 years or 3 yeas ago and I found it it's very interesting . I like it a lot . I have difficultiies to understand because English is not my first language. I speak French.

I agree with DR and just to be clear, I do not think it's a Fine Tuning issue. If there's an AF Fine Tuning problem, it's going to appear as consistent front or back focusing - but not both.

And to add - yes, so much of this is simply practice.

 

[Mimi76]

Based on these I see no AF Fine Tune problem at all with your camera and lens combination. The first image makes perfect sense as the camera focused on the breast which is ever so slightly in front of the eye. That explains why the green perch that is also very slightly in front of the eye was so sharp.

The second image where the focus point was directly over the eye resulted in a very sharp (tack sharp as we say) eye.

I see no fine tune problems at all.


Yes, it's a constant challenge and one of the field skills we try to develop as nature photographers as our subjects rarely stay perfectly still.

I do use Single Point AF Area Mode for perched birds and most slow moving or stationary subjects as it gives me my most precise AF Area selection. But if I expect action I use either Group AF Mode or a small Dynamic AF Area mode like D25 (or D9 on cameras that support this very small dynamic mode). Those modes are a bit more forgiving for situations where I can't perfectly keep the Single Point right where I want it in the image.

I believe it's a good exercise to practice keeping the Single Point right where you want it as a bird or other subject twitches and moves and glances left, right, up and down. It will help your photography to get good at those small and constant adjustments. But you might also experiment with a small Dynamic Area Mode like D25 that gives you a little more tolerance for errors but also less control over precise AF point placement. Group is also a good mode but it will tend to focus on objects closest to the camera which is not always what we want though it can be very good for things like flying birds.

The other way to add a little margin for error is to stop down the lens perhaps half to a full stop from wide open aperture. That will provide a little more Depth of Field and cover over very small focus point placement issues like the Single Point on the bird's breast. But it may also bring some of the background elements into a bit sharper focus depending on how far they are behind your subject so that can be a tradeoff of slightly better focus where you want it but not quite as much subject isolation or less background blur for backgrounds that are fairly close to your subject. But it is one way to get a little more tolerance for small focusing errors.

Thank you so much for your patience, generosity and good explanation. I am very happy to have found this forum and thank you so much again. I will try to do what you advised me to do.... . At last I'm happy I don't have any problem with AF Fine tune .

 

[Mimi76]

I agree with DR and just to be clear, I do not think it's a Fine Tuning issue. If there's an AF Fine Tuning problem, it's going to appear as consistent front or back focusing - but not both.

And to add - yes, so much of this is simply practice.

Yes I have to practice with the subjects moving ... . Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Rassie]

Are you using single point AF-C, or perhaps D9 or one of the other dynamic modes?

 

[MartyD]

These were in AF single shot mode correct? Was the AF-S priority setting set to Release or Focus? Maybe the camera had not yet acquired focus on the moving object.

It also might we worth considering adjusting the Focus Tracking with lock-on setting. I don't think this would come into play with these images but it might be worth trying.

 

[DRwyoming]

These were in AF single shot mode correct?

Based on what she posted these were shot in AF-C mode, hence the confusion. I'd still guess focus activation wasn't kicked in until the motion started(by having standard focus activated by shutter release half press) and the squirrel jumped forward with the release mode set to shutter priority. IOW, the focus couldn't start from dead zero and acquire on a moving subject before the shutter released.

 

[MartyD]

Based on what she posted these were shot in AF-C mode, hence the confusion. I'd still guess focus activation wasn't kicked in until the motion started(by having standard focus activated by shutter release half press) and the squirrel jumped forward with the release mode set to shutter priority. IOW, the focus couldn't start from dead zero and acquire on a moving subject before the shutter released.

Yes, my bad they were in AF-C mode. I agree, I don't think the focus had completely acquired prior to the shutter released.

 

[Mimi76]

Are you using single point AF-C, or perhaps D9 or one of the other dynamic modes?

Hello,

Thank you for your message. I always use AF-C, Mode S and Single Shot for the birds and animals .

 

[Mimi76]

These were in AF single shot mode correct? Was the AF-S priority setting set to Release or Focus? Maybe the camera had not yet acquired focus on the moving object.

It also might we worth considering adjusting the Focus Tracking with lock-on setting. I don't think this would come into play with these images but it might be worth trying.

Hello,

Thank you for your message.
I use:
AF no M
Mode: S
AF-Area mode: Single shot
Focus mode: AF-C
In setting Menu : AF-C priority selection is "Release".

I don't understand 'Focus Tracking with lock-on setting' what is for. Could you please explain to me thank you. I saw in setting menu but I haven't understood . Thnak you so much.

 

[Mimi76]

Based on what she posted these were shot in AF-C mode, hence the confusion. I'd still guess focus activation wasn't kicked in until the motion started(by having standard focus activated by shutter release half press) and the squirrel jumped forward with the release mode set to shutter priority. IOW, the focus couldn't start from dead zero and acquire on a moving subject before the shutter released.

Hello,
Here I use
AF no M
Mode: S
AF-Area mode: Single shot
Focus mode: AF-C
In setting Menu : AF-C priority selection is "Release".
What do you think of my settings? for teh subjects moving?

I'm sorry I can't understand well but you said "Based on what she posted these were shot in AF-C mode, hence the confusion." Could you please tell me what I have to do? thank you.

what does that mean 'IOW' ? please, thank you.
I noticed the camera takes a long time to make focus. Is it normal?

Thank you so much.

 

[MartyD]

Hello,

Thank you for your message.
I use:
AF no M
Mode: S
AF-Area mode: Single shot
Focus mode: AF-C
In setting Menu : AF-C priority selection is "Release".

I don't understand 'Focus Tracking with lock-on setting' what is for. Could you please explain to me thank you. I saw in setting menu but I haven't understood . Thnak you so much.

I wonder if AF-C priority selection set to "Release" might be part of the problem. The camera will capture an image even if the focus it not acquired when ever the shutter is pressed. If it is set to "Focus" the image will not be captured until the focus is acquired. It is difficult to tell from the single image what was happening with the subject just prior to the capture. If the camera was focused, the subject moved toward the camera, the shutter was pressed, but focus had not yet been acquired, then the image could be out of focus. Try setting it to AF-C priority to "Focus" and see if it makes any difference in your shooting. The 200-500 is not a particularly fast focusing lens as well.

The "Focus Tracking with lock-on setting- Blocked shot AF Response" tells the camera how long to wait before reacquiring focus if there is a significant change in the focus distance. This is an issue not so much with the subject moving, but with the focus point moving off the subject or something unexpected moving between you and the subject. This is what usually happens to me, I am following a moving object and trying to keep the focus points on the subject, if the focus points where to drift onto the background the camera could refocus on the background, then when the focus point is moved back on the subject the camera would have to reacquire focus again on the subject. If the setting is set more to "Delayed" the camera will wait longer for you to get the focus point back on the subject before changing focus.

The "Focus Tracking with lock-on setting" makes a big difference for me when shooting sports photos but not as much with wildlife photos but it is worth looking into.

Have you tried shooting a burst of images in continuous shooting mode?

 

[Mimi76]

I wonder if AF-C priority selection set to "Release" might be part of the problem. The camera will capture an image even if the focus it not acquired when ever the shutter is pressed. If it is set to "Focus" the image will not be captured until the focus is acquired. It is difficult to tell from the single image what was happening with the subject just prior to the capture. If the camera was focused, the subject moved toward the camera, the shutter was pressed, but focus had not yet been acquired, then the image could be out of focus. Try setting it to AF-C priority to "Focus" and see if it makes any difference in your shooting. The 200-500 is not a particularly fast focusing lens as well.

The "Focus Tracking with lock-on setting- Blocked shot AF Response" tells the camera how long to wait before reacquiring focus if there is a significant change in the focus distance. This is an issue not so much with the subject moving, but with the focus point moving off the subject or something unexpected moving between you and the subject. This is what usually happens to me, I am following a moving object and trying to keep the focus points on the subject, if the focus points where to drift onto the background the camera could refocus on the background, then when the focus point is moved back on the subject the camera would have to reacquire focus again on the subject. If the setting is set more to "Delayed" the camera will wait longer for you to get the focus point back on the subject before changing focus.

The "Focus Tracking with lock-on setting" makes a big difference for me when shooting sports photos but not as much with wildlife photos but it is worth looking into.

Have you tried shooting a burst of images in continuous shooting mode?

Hello,

Thank you so much for your message and your explanation. I will try to do what you advised me to do. Yes I use continuous shooting but this tiime I forgot to switch to continous shooting. it often happens that I forget . The "Focus Tracking with lock-on setting- Blocked I set on "3 normal" I don't know if it's ok. Thank you so much


Thank you so much