Request your advise (D850)

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June last year I traded my Nikon D780 in and boought a Nikon D850 back. So far so good. After a couple of weeks using the D850, I noticed I did not have as many keepers as I had with my D780. Lens is the same: Sigma 10-600 Sports.
Pictures are not crisp sharp. Whatever I try, high shutter speed (>1/2000 for birds in flight), ISO limitted to 800, different Aperature settings, nothing gives me many crisp sharp pictures. Today I was confronted again. A Marsh Harrier approached me from the front. I started shooting till the bird was aout of sight.
I made about 80 shots, most are not usable. I attached one. Only edit is made it a JPG from the RAW. Used DxO Photolabs 7. DxO did only optical corrections,not further post processing. I had to resize it from 8256 px wide to 1980 px wide due to limit of this forum.
When needed, I can send the RAW file.

I am wondering what is wrong with this picture, what should I do to get more crisp sharp photo's from BIF?
Is it a hardware issue (lens or body), is it me, pix peeping or something else?

Please help, I do get some second thoughts on the aquirance of the D850 ....

Tino
 

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The D850 is an outstanding camera. Many (myself included) say the best DSLR ever made, so that cannot be the issue. Looking at this small image your shot seems sharp to me. However, the bird is very small in the frame so if you crop to make it fill the frame it will get pixelated (which appears unsharp). I wonder if your shots with D850 have been farther away than shots you kept from D780?
 
My D850 was the best camera I have ever owned! The subject is very small in the photo you posted. Tough to get a sharp image if AF is struggling. What were you shutter speed, ISO and aperture? Is the image cropped? What focus mode were you using?
This image has only been reszed, not cropped.
ISO was 800, shutter 1/1600 F7.1 Focus mode was AF C group for this picture.
 
I am also wondering about the EXIF data as well as the distance. Were you using a tripod of hand held? Could there have been atmospheric issues?

I suggest you take a look at some of the Steve Perry videos on bif photography and other subjects and see if any of that makes sense to you.

It is hard to compare body to body without shooting both with the same lens under the same conditions.

There could also be issues with your familiarity with the 850’s autofocus system.
 
The D850 is an outstanding camera. Many (myself included) say the best DSLR ever made, so that cannot be the issue. Looking at this small image your shot seems sharp to me. However, the bird is very small in the frame so if you crop to make it fill the frame it will get pixelated (which appears unsharp). I wonder if your shots with D850 have been farther away than shots you kept from D780?
On average are the distances for the subject the same with the D780 and the D850.
 
This smells like either atmospheric distortion or subject movement to me. I would think for a bird in active flight 1/1600 shutter speed might not be fast enough. I would consider shooting in bursts as well and finally I would try out a tripod to see if that made a difference.

Long focal length lenses can be very challenging because of the conditions under which they are typically operating.

A good way to pin this down is to find a static bird subject where the bird is close by. You can also find a highly detailed close by subject for instance a moss covered rock or log or a complex tree trunk with a lot of fine detail. Shoot it on a tripod and see how it looks. That kind of shoot will tell you what the camera/lens is capable of producing.
 
I am also wondering about the EXIF data as well as the distance. Were you using a tripod of hand held? Could there have been atmospheric issues?

I suggest you take a look at some of the Steve Perry videos on bif photography and other subjects and see if any of that makes sense to you.

It is hard to compare body to body without shooting both with the same lens under the same conditions.

There could also be issues with your familiarity with the 850’s autofocus system.
The distance between me and the bird is very hard to tell but it might be arround 100m/330ft. Weather was fine, not heathaze present. This it was handheld.

I do own the books of Steve, about autofocus, BIF, Wildlife. Also watched his video's. They are very inspiring but I could not find the solution for this.

The most strange is, when I should a burst, the pictures right after this kind of shots, can be crisp sharp but the next 2 or 3 have the same issue.
It makes no difference when I use a tripod or handheld.
I have VR on on 90% of the trips I make, so this time it was on too.
 
1. Try AF fine tuning.
2. The picture you sent is a very difficult scene (moving bird, far away, bright background...). I wouldn't expect too much from it (looks ok to me anyway).
3. Maybe you have had over-expectations from your new camera (which is a fantastic camera, as others have mentioned).
4. Higher pixel density of the D850 may expose weaknesses of the lens more than the D780 does.
5. Even perfectly fine tuned AF can be wrong, however.

I hope and I am sure you will be happy with your D850.
 
There is something I noticed when I went from D600 to D810. As the resolution increases it seems harder to get shots that used to be easy. I exposes weaknesses in technique. The move from the D810 to the D850 was similar but not as obvious. I’m not knocking high resolutions and the benefits / opportunities it brings but around 24mp is a real sweet spot.
 
I suspect the biggest issue is that the D850 has a much higher resolution than you were used to. This higher res makes proper camera handling techniques more important and also shows lens deficiencies. The higher res sensor will also show atmospheric effects more than the lower ones. Learning better handling techniques as well as boosting shutter speeds will help but won't overcome atmospherics nor lens shortcomings.
 
Extremely difficult to see the (lack of) detail of the subject you post. Shoot non-moving 20 yard subjects, filling more of the frame.
I have never owned that brand of lens, I know many do use them so they must be of quality
 
June last year I traded my Nikon D780 in and boought a Nikon D850 back. So far so good. After a couple of weeks using the D850, I noticed I did not have as many keepers as I had with my D780. Lens is the same: Sigma 10-600 Sports.
Pictures are not crisp sharp. Whatever I try, high shutter speed (>1/2000 for birds in flight), ISO limitted to 800, different Aperature settings, nothing gives me many crisp sharp pictures. Today I was confronted again. A Marsh Harrier approached me from the front. I started shooting till the bird was aout of sight.
I made about 80 shots, most are not usable. I attached one. Only edit is made it a JPG from the RAW. Used DxO Photolabs 7. DxO did only optical corrections,not further post processing. I had to resize it from 8256 px wide to 1980 px wide due to limit of this forum.
When needed, I can send the RAW file.

I am wondering what is wrong with this picture, what should I do to get more crisp sharp photo's from BIF?
Is it a hardware issue (lens or body), is it me, pix peeping or something else?

Please help, I do get some second thoughts on the aquirance of the D850 ....

Tino

As well as the other good advice here I thought I'd throw this in. This experience is not doing action or wildlife.

When I had my D700 I never had any stabilised lenses so used the 1/focal length rule for shutter speed, or slower with no issues at all. Always prided myself over my steady hands/stance etc.

Then when got my D810 the first time I used it I noticed the same thing as you. Few keepers and soft images. Then I had a light bulb moment. My D700 was 12MP and my D810 was 33MP. So I tried 1.5/focal length as a minimum and bingo! all good again. Same thing happened when I got my D850 but this time I knew what to do. 2/focal length minimum and all good again.

From what you say it seems that shutter speed should not be the issue (although you did say >2000th in your first post and then say that it was 1/1600 later) it is likely that the higher res of the D850 is showing flaws that he D780 did not show. Steve recommends IIRC at least 1/2000 for BIF so the first thing I'd try is going faster. Like the others I think that the bird is really small in the frame though so another thing to try is shooting much closer to your subjects.
 
There has been a common lament, no matter the cameras involved. When folks go to a higher resolution body but view the results zoomed way in, they say the high resolution body is crap. The reason often is that they are not viewing the two images at the same size. The 45 mp camera viewed at 100% is way bigger than the 24mp body at 100%. So they see more flaws in the higher mp body and see more lens flaws.

Try viewing two similar shots side by side but both at the same actual size on the screen. Or try downsampling the higher resolution one to equal the resolution of the lower resolution one. If the d850 is still crap then you might have an issue.
 
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It's similar to many things, including car racing. Put a driver with a couple of years experience in the fastest car on the track, and he will not get the performance out of that car that a veteran racer of 20 years will get.

A better camera usually requires learning more skills. As mentioned above, the D850 has almost twice the pixels as your previous camera. That doubled resolution can exposes slight deficiencies in techniques.+

For BIF, I suggest the following:

Work on your approach skills so you can get the subject larger in the frame
Don't expect great results when thermal differences, heat distortion are present
Use a minimum shutter speed of 2X the focal length. You WILL see an improvement.
Enjoy the journey!
 
June last year I traded my Nikon D780 in and boought a Nikon D850 back. So far so good. After a couple of weeks using the D850, I noticed I did not have as many keepers as I had with my D780. Lens is the same: Sigma 10-600 Sports.
Pictures are not crisp sharp. Whatever I try, high shutter speed (>1/2000 for birds in flight), ISO limitted to 800, different Aperature settings, nothing gives me many crisp sharp pictures. Today I was confronted again. A Marsh Harrier approached me from the front. I started shooting till the bird was aout of sight.
I made about 80 shots, most are not usable. I attached one. Only edit is made it a JPG from the RAW. Used DxO Photolabs 7. DxO did only optical corrections,not further post processing. I had to resize it from 8256 px wide to 1980 px wide due to limit of this forum.
When needed, I can send the RAW file.

I am wondering what is wrong with this picture, what should I do to get more crisp sharp photo's from BIF?
Is it a hardware issue (lens or body), is it me, pix peeping or something else?

Please help, I do get some second thoughts on the aquirance of the D850 ....

Tino
Hi Tino

Any time I question the quality or performance of my gear, I start with a controlled test. I want a static target and controlled, repeatable conditions. If I can't get a sharp image under those conditions, further testing under more difficult conditions won't matter. Take plenty of images so you can understand focus variation as well. Add to the mix the distance of your subject. Once you have tested at near distances, test at medium and longer distances to make sure you can capture a sharp image. Take note of the lighting since brighter conditions make it a lot easier to have an image that looks sharp.

Normally when you are testing gear, you start on a tripod with good technique. You are trying to test the lens, not your technique initially. Once you have confirmed you can make sharp images on a tripod, you can incorporate handholding if that's how you normally photograph. It will also show you where you need a tripod vs. handholding.

Focus always has variability. What you want is a tight range of focus errors, but lighting, technique and settings have an impact on sharpness. Even with good focus and perfect lighting, you'll have focus errors - some that are clearly discards.

Focus is different from sharpness. There are factors that can cause soft images even if your image is perfectly focused - focal length, aperture choice, etc. Noise is larger in an image after a deep crop. For every 1/3 crop of an image, you increase noise the equivalent of around 1.25 stops. Resizing works the other way. Downsizing an image reduces detail since pixels are being combined and averaged.

Another control point is around editing. Try using Nikon NX Studio to view the image. It's the one program where a JPEG will match the RAW image and the image you view in your cameras LCD . In DXO and other programs you have the question of how the software interprets the RAW data, and how you have set the software for initial view. DXO does a good job, but like Lightroom, it has it's quirks. Let's remove that issue and look at a neutral, unprocessed image. Also keep in mind that any noise reduction is the counterpart of sharpness, so if noise reduction is being applied to your subject, you will lose detail.

I've seen similar softness with distant subjects using the D850. Part of the issue is likely your lens resolution combined with the distance of the subject. Your lens may not be perfectly focused, you may have missed focus slightly, and light levels may be a bit low requiring a higher ISO and the accompanying increase in noise. With a highly magnified view or deep crop, the lack of detail will be apparent.

It's a process. Kind of like Whack-a-Mole. You have to eliminate the variables, confirm what your lens and camera can do well, and then explore the edges where various factors may lead to images that are not sharp enough. Once you complete the exercise, you'll have a lot more confidence in what you and your gear can and cannot achieve.
 
There is something I noticed when I went from D600 to D810. As the resolution increases it seems harder to get shots that used to be easy. I exposes weaknesses in technique. The move from the D810 to the D850 was similar but not as obvious. I’m not knocking high resolutions and the benefits / opportunities it brings but around 24mp is a real sweet spot.
Nailed it! I also think high density sensors are less forgiving of camera movement and technique.
I would carefully fine-tune AF on that lens, and then do a series of tests with the camera on a sturdy tripod while shooting static subjects. If those tests look OK, then it's a matter of improving camera handling technique and learning to use the most appropriate autofocus mode for the scenario.
 
Not sure if already mentioned but this bit me hard on my first day with the D850 - I was on AF-S instead of AF-C. It was one thing I hadn't switched yet as I think the default was AF-S on it. I blew several sequences of eagles doing cool eagle things. Never forgot that one
 
June last year I traded my Nikon D780 in and boought a Nikon D850 back. So far so good. After a couple of weeks using the D850, I noticed I did not have as many keepers as I had with my D780. Lens is the same: Sigma 10-600 Sports.
Pictures are not crisp sharp. Whatever I try, high shutter speed (>1/2000 for birds in flight), ISO limitted to 800, different Aperature settings, nothing gives me many crisp sharp pictures. Today I was confronted again. A Marsh Harrier approached me from the front. I started shooting till the bird was aout of sight.
I made about 80 shots, most are not usable. I attached one. Only edit is made it a JPG from the RAW. Used DxO Photolabs 7. DxO did only optical corrections,not further post processing. I had to resize it from 8256 px wide to 1980 px wide due to limit of this forum.
When needed, I can send the RAW file.

I am wondering what is wrong with this picture, what should I do to get more crisp sharp photo's from BIF?
Is it a hardware issue (lens or body), is it me, pix peeping or something else?

Please help, I do get some second thoughts on the aquirance of the D850 ....

Tino
Small in the veiwfinder and lighting sucks
 
As others have stated, move up for on a 24MP sensor to a 45MP sensor is a new challenge. The higher MP sensor will certainly reveal and flaws in technique that you wouldn't know about it see with a 24MP sensor. This will force you to tighten up and improve your technique.

But for the specific image you posted. Subject to far away/to small in the frame, atmospherics could be in play and underexposed due to what looks like mid day sun
 
Another vote for Eric's comments.
I was also disappointed in wildlife shots. Frame fillers are great, but IMO the D850 does not tolerate a lot of cropping. Steve's video on sensor size was a great help in explaining why. So, I bought the D500 based on reviews and the faster frame rate. I use the D850 for static subjects and D500 for wildlife.
 
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