Should Nikon repair my damaged Z9 at their cost and supply a loaner?

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I am reminded about a class I took in college. About 40 years ago when I was in college I took a class in professional writing. A couple of weeks into the class we were given and assignment of writing letters to companies about their products and a problem associated with the product. Half of the class was instructed to write letters that were antagonist to the companies about their products. The other half of the class was instructed to write letters about the problems with the products in a nice way. The products were to be picked out by the students but had to have a cost of less than ten dollars which seemed like a whole lot more money than 10 dollars is today.

Of the 10 antagonistic letters written, only one received a reply that was positive. Of the 10 nice letters 9 received replys from the letters and 5 of those received brand new replacement products. The professor stated that was the statistically the same as these projects had in the previous 4 semesters.

I know things are a great deal different than they were 30 years ago with people and the companies but I still think being non antagonistic still works. I had the same problem with the foot on my 500pf. I realized that sending it back to Nikon would probably not fix the problem. So I got the Hejnar replacement. On my 100-400, I saw it had the same foot and I keep a check on that nob every time I pick up the lens. I'm sure some people really like that quick ability to remove the foot and it was designed to release it. I also know the problem now and have made it a habit to check that nob.

I have other thing problems that required me to send my camera and lens back to Nikon. When my 300pf lens got stuck on my D500 i sent it in. I was nice and said I don't know what happened to cause this. In the letter to me they wrote to me that the camera and lens must have been dropped to bend the flange on the camera where the lens mounts. They said that was the only way the lens could get stuck on the body. I replied to repair the camera but that I had never dropped the camerra nor the lens together or separately. They said it would cost me about $750 to repair. When I got the camera back, they only charged me $400 to repair. They said one of the small screws had come out of the base of the lens and that is why the lens got stuck. While they still had to break the mount on the body to get the lens off i still didn't get charged the full amount.

In my experience as a farmer that deals with lots of equipment and rolling stock, being adversarial or antagonistic usually cause you more problems than its worth. Be kind and friendly to the company and the mechanics usually gets much better rresults. Sometimes things happen that are nobody's fault or fault is on both sides.
 
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jimfromno said:
Your answer is sort of ridiculous. Of course there is. We all use devices all day long that work 100%. If I have a car accident is someone going to blame me because I didn't go around and check all the tire's lugs before I set out on a trip? People keep harping about the knob. This was a new lens.
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We will have to disagree on this one. I my opinion could not be more opposite yours. We will not see eye to eye on this one so I will withdraw from the conversation.

OFF TOPIC - This is just a general observation. I am just tired of everything having to be someone else's fault! I still say nothing is 100% fool proof.
 
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Butlerkid said:
I just checked my Kirk foot and I can't budge it.....even then pressing the release lever. What do you see as the problem?
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i just think, upon reflection, the whole idea of having a push button release is kind of a unnecessary weak link, especially if you intend to use it as a carry point. knobs loosen, even if they are better knobs

to a certain point, it’s a matter of priorities. is quick release of the foot really worth any compromise of the security?
 
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John Navitsky said:
i just think, upon reflection, the whole idea of having a push button release is kind of a unnecessary weak link, especially if you intend to use it as a carry point. knobs loosen, even if they are better knobs.
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I replaced the original QR foot on my Sony 100-400 with a non-QR Wimberley foot for this exact reason. Anyone who wants my QR Kirk foot for this lens is welcome to it. It works as designed, I just don't like the design.

YMMV of course.
 
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Chappy said:
I am reminded about a class I took in college. About 40 years ago when I was in college I took a class in professional writing. A couple of weeks into the class we were given and assignment of writing letters to companies about their products and a problem associated with the product. Half of the class was instructed to write letters that were antagonist to the companies about their products. The other half of the class was instructed to write letters about the problems with the products in a nice way. The products were to be picked out by the students but had to have a cost of less than ten dollars which seemed like a whole lot more money than 10 dollars is today.

Of the 10 antagonistic letters written, only one received a reply that was positive. Of the 10 nice letters 9 received replys from the letters and 5 of those received brand new replacement products. The professor stated that was the statistically the same as these projects had in the previous 4 semesters.

I know things are a great deal different than they were 30 years ago with people and the companies but I still think being non antagonistic still works. I had the same problem with the foot on my 500pf. I realized that sending it back to Nikon would probably not fix the problem. So I got the Hejnar replacement. On my 100-400, I saw it had the same foot and I keep a check on that nob every time I pick up the lens. I'm sure some people really like that quick ability to remove the foot and it was designed to release it. I also know the problem now and have made it a habit to check that nob.

I have other thing problems that required me to send my camera and lens back to Nikon. When my 300pf lens got stuck on my D500 i sent it in. I was nice and said I don't know what happened to cause this. In the letter to me they wrote to me that the camera and lens must have been dropped to bend the flange on the camera where the lens mounts. They said that was the only way the lens could get stuck on the body. I replied to repair the camera but that I had never dropped the camerra nor the lens together or separately. They said it would cost me about $750 to repair. When I got the camera back, they only charged me $400 to repair. They said one of the small screws had come out of the base of the lens and that is why the lens got stuck. While they still had to break the mount on the body to get the lens off i still didn't get charged the full amount.

In my experience as a farmer that deals with lots of equipment and rolling stock, being adversarial or antagonistic usually cause you more problems than its worth. Be kind and friendly to the company and the mechanics usually gets much better rresults. Sometimes things happen that are nobody's fault or fault is on both sides.
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I agree with you 10000% (or so). I have demonstrated it to myself many times. A reasoned and reasonable approach presented in a non-adversarial way will almost always produce a better outcome. Works with small businesses, big ones, airlines, government officials...Almost everybody.

Could never convince my wife of this...She once fought with customs over a $35 Thai pillow clearly made of material prohibited by the Dept of Agriculture. They cut it open in front of her and then threw it in the trash. :ROFLMAO: Oh, I meant ex-wife.
 
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JoPoV said:
But the wheel does not fell off your car ... unless someone voluntarily unscrew all the screwS of your wheel or if something is broken.
That's the difference.
I would add if wheels fell easily off the cars, cars manufacturers would have big problems.
Wheels are designed to not fell off the cars, but to be removed if user needs it.
No design error for wheels.

It seems this foot miss a removable safety for carrying (by hand, or on a tripod).
I like the ability to quickly remove the unit from its base, but it seems something is missing to lock it when carrying.
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My point is that I did tighten this knob more than once, but how many times are you supposed to tighten it? Every time you use it, no. Just like a car's lugs you assume they are tight because the mechanic tightened them and they should remain that way. The same applies to this lens knob, I tightened it. My issue is that it came untightened. In the mechanical world, they use lock washers or locking nuts, something to keep the lug tight. This lug was tight and became loose on its own and that's my issue.
 
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jimfromno said:
My point is that I did tighten this knob more than once, but how many times are you supposed to tighten it? Every time you use it, no. Just like a car's lugs you assume they are tight because the mechanic tightened them and they should remain that way. The same applies to this lens knob, I tightened it. My issue is that it came untightened. In the mechanical world, they use lock washers or locking nuts, something to keep the lug tight. This lug was tight and became loose on its own and that's my issue.
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Sorry for your experience.
Anyway, thank you to pointing this problem which could have happenned to me because I din't know it, and wouldn't have thought, like you, that it this a weak point.
I hope this won't happen on removable parts of my power tools (way less expensive than my nikon gear) which vibrates a lot when I'm tinkering, because it even could be dangerous for me (but hey, I've just checked them and even those with more than 15 years use are still well tighten. So far, so good with my power tools).

I still think this is a Nikon weak design and this is not normal and it is Nikon fault.
Like you, I thought that foot being what support the whole gear, it should have be impossible (except improper use, or something broken or factory default) to it to let the gear fall on the floor.
I would add seeing the price Nikon charge those feet (look at 300 PF foot price - it is an option) and compare to competitors (near twice the price of a canon equivalent for canon lenses when I bought it - long time ago), it should have been because of great care in the design and manufacture.
Of course people knowing this problem can argue that you should have checked this point and it is improper use. But I don't think this is a fair judgement.
 
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JoPoV said:
You mean sony lenses fall to floor too ?

I will send camera manufacturers contact of manufacturers of my very vibrating power tools with removable parts. They should learn something (and as I said, they costs very less than nikon gear).
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sure, if the knob comes loose and you manage to press the button while you have the lens inverted or tilted the wrong way

you can make the argument that the specific knob on other lenses are less prone to loosening, but that doesn't mean they are immune from loosening and do it's a matter of degree, it's not an absolute thing

and while i didn't pay a lot of attention about trying to figure out exactly what happened, sure, i've seen a lot of pictures of a lot of gear that broke on the internet, of varying brands.

i'm not saying i'm keen on this design, but i also don't think this is so singularly a nikon issue or that it's criminally bad either

i think the big takeway here is that if you are going to CARRY this lens via a STRAP attached to the foot (which is what i understand happened here, and as noted, is not recommended by the mfg), you probably should probably replace that foot with something like the Hejnar foot that SCREWS into the lens mount
 
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John Navitsky said:
i think the big takeway here is that if you are going to CARRY this lens via a STRAP attached to the foot (which is what i understand happened here, and as noted, is not recommended by the mfg), you probably should probably replace that foot with something like the Hejnar foot that SCREWS into the lens mount
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I think a very relevant question that hasn't been answered here by anyone arguing that the manufacturer doesn't endorse carrying this way is how one is supposed to carry it.
 
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i think that’s fair due to the noted discrepancy in the manual, but i think process of deduction says use the camera strap mounts

before everyone yells at me, remember this is not a heavy lens, relatively speaking
 
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John Navitsky said:
i think that’s fair due to the noted discrepancy in the manual, but i think process of deduction says use the camera strap mounts

before everyone yells at me, remember this is not a heavy lens, relatively speaking
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Correct. The 100-400 is a fairly light lens @ about 3.1 lbs. I attach mine to one camera lug and the other end to an RRS or Kirk L plate or foot.
 
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jimfromno said:
My point is that I did tighten this knob more than once, but how many times are you supposed to tighten it? Every time you use it, no. Just like a car's lugs you assume they are tight because the mechanic tightened them and they should remain that way. The same applies to this lens knob, I tightened it. My issue is that it came untightened. In the mechanical world, they use lock washers or locking nuts, something to keep the lug tight. This lug was tight and became loose on its own and that's my issue.
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If you have tightened the knob as many times as you have said and it keeps loosening up that quickly, then why not send the knob and foot to Nikon for them to evaluate it? If they say it was not working properly (note I did not say defective), then talk with them about what happened.

--Ken
 
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John Navitsky said:
i think that’s fair due to the noted discrepancy in the manual, but i think process of deduction says use the camera strap mounts

before everyone yells at me, remember this is not a heavy lens, relatively speaking
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Yet it's heavier than the manual says is "allowed." I'm not saying it won't work or that it's likely to cause damage, but I am saying that for those saying that the OP would have no case because he carried the camera in a way not explicitly approved in the manual and that Nikon's lawyers couldnl just quote the manual and get a free win, we can't then also say that a lens like the 100-400, which has no strap eyelets, can just be carried via the camera body because that's even more contrary to Nikon's official instruction.
 
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Replytoken said:
If you have tightened the knob as many times as you have said and it keeps loosening up that quickly, then why not send the knob and foot to Nikon for them to evaluate it? If they say it was not working properly (note I did not say defective), then talk with them about what happened.

--Ken
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Let's not exaggerate here, it's a new lens maybe 2 months old. I didn't make a log on the tightening of this damn knob. But I have a 500mm PF that has the same problem with the foot falling off so I know that I did tighten it as hard as I could out of the box. I need a tripod plate to make it useable on a tripod so I ordered a Kirk plate. If I knew that they had a replacement foot I would have ordered that instead. When the plate came I mounted it to the foot with screws. At this time I tightened the knob again and it was already tight. End of the knob Story!! I never checked it because I shouldn't have to check and recheck knobs. Nor should anyone else. Are you going to pay the fee Nikon will expect for this evaluation not to mention the shipping? I have talked with them.
 
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SCoombs said:
Yet it's heavier than the manual says is "allowed." I'm not saying it won't work or that it's likely to cause damage, but I am saying that for those saying that the OP would have no case because he carried the camera in a way not explicitly approved in the manual and that Nikon's lawyers couldnl just quote the manual and get a free win, we can't then also say that a lens like the 100-400, which has no strap eyelets, can just be carried via the camera body because that's even more contrary to Nikon's official instruction.
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yah, that's why i said it was fair point because the lenses like the 400 4.5, 100-400 and 70-200 are all in a weird bermuda triangle where there doesn't seem clear guidance

i will however suggest that when push comes to shove, the lack of a lens carrying mounting point (and the similarity in weight to the z9) on these lenses suggest they are meant to be carried via the camera's strap points

we can note that the 180-600 has mount points on the lens for a strap
 
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