So Why is Nikon doing 180mm Lenses?

[NorthernFocus]

In recent years Nikon has announced development of the 200-400TC and Z 200-600 but then they were both released as 180mm on the short end. And now the 70-180mm rather than 70-200. Is it for technical reasons or is Nikon just trying to differentiate themselves from the competition(i.e. Canon 200-400TC and Sony 200-600)? It makes sense on the 70-180 because it allowed a smaller objective lens element. But on the two super tele zooms the reason is less obvious.

 

[Cameron T]

Well, the 70-180 is a tamron rebadge, and tamron probably did it to save weight (and the design extends, so it has a lot of compromises anyway). It doesn't flat out compete with the 70-200, which is also something nikon stated regarding their third party lenses (that they could make stuff that added to the lineup, but couldn't compete directly if they wanted total access I'd imagine).

The 180-600 I have no idea why that changed, maybe because of the design they went with they figured they could fit the extra 20 on the low end with no penalty? I don't know that I'll ever need it, and would have traded that 20mm for having the lens by now.

Maybe the 180-400 is the same way, no real cost to doing it and it provides slightly wider reach as differentiation, as you mentioned.

 

[Nimi]

Well, the 70-180 is a tamron rebadge, and tamron probably did it to save weight (and the design extends, so it has a lot of compromises anyway). It doesn't flat out compete with the 70-200, which is also something nikon stated regarding their third party lenses (that they could make stuff that added to the lineup, but couldn't compete directly if they wanted total access I'd imagine).

The 180-600 I have no idea why that changed, maybe because of the design they went with they figured they could fit the extra 20 on the low end with no penalty? I don't know that I'll ever need it, and would have traded that 20mm for having the lens by now.

Maybe the 180-400 is the same way, no real cost to doing it and it provides slightly wider reach as differentiation, as you mentioned.

Tamron is controlled by Sony, Tamron manufacturs many of Sony's zooms and there is an agreement between them not to have the same focal lengths. Probably related to what they are making for Nikon.

 

[Cameron T]

Which I get for the 70-180.

That doesn't explain the other two lenses from that perspective.

 

[Nimi]

Which I get for the 70-180.

That doesn't explain the other two lenses from that perspective.

I suspect, and I know the talking heads repeat what Nikon marketing tells them and deny it, that Tamron makes those as well.

 

[Cameron T]

Well, tamron can make them...but tamron likely didn't design them. So that still doesn't explain it. Tamron can build lenses based on the specs they're given, it doesn't need to be 180 on an end.

 

[Nimi]

Well, tamron can make them...but tamron likely didn't design them. So that still doesn't explain it. Tamron can build lenses based on the specs they're given, it doesn't need to be 180 on an end.

Why do you think that? They are probably the world's biggest lens company and last financial report they claimed that over 30% are private label.

 

[John Navitsky]

afaik, the 180(200)-600 has been on the lens roadmap for a long time and the agreement to let tamron build lenses for nikon z mount is relatively new

 

[RichF]

probably found that it was straightforward to make 180-600 vs 200-600. May have something to do with focus bloom??? really no idea but that makes me sound like I know something intelligent

 

[Nimi]

afaik, the 180(200)-600 has been on the lens roadmap for a long time and the agreement to let tamron build lenses for nikon z mount is relatively new

My theory: Nikon imagined the 200-600, couldn't pull it off with all the S superteles, turned to Tamron (20% owned by Sony) who said, "sure, but can't compete with the 200-600, how about 180? Sell it as a feature."

 

[Steve]

I think it's a marketing or patent thing. At 180mm, they can brag they have more range than the competition. They can also say they aren't duplicating other lenses.

As a side note, Nikon tells me the 180-600 is 100% Nikon DNA - Tamron was not involved.

 

[John Navitsky]

My theory: Nikon imagined the 200-600, couldn't pull it off with all the S superteles, turned to Tamron (20% owned by Sony) who said, "sure, but can't compete with the 200-600, how about 180? Sell it as a feature."

the 70-180 lens predated the nikon agreement and they didn’t change it.

 

[John Navitsky]

I think it's a marketing or patent thing. At 180mm, they can brag they have more range than the competition.

while both those things may be true, i wonder if, when you take the 200-600 formula and apply it to the larger z mount, you just get some different results.

 

[StefanSC]

Just keep in mind that most zoom lenses aren't actually the exact focal lengths marked / are those focal lengths only at infinity. Usually they are "near enough" and marketing rounds up or down as they see fit

 

[Cameron T]

Just keep in mind that most zoom lenses aren't actually the exact focal lengths marked / are those focal lengths only at infinity. Usually they are "near enough" and marketing rounds up or down as they see fit

Also f stops aren't t stops, and can vary slightly from other lenses with the same listed f stop

 

[Anjin San]

I think it's a marketing or patent thing. At 180mm, they can brag they have more range than the competition. They can also say they aren't duplicating other lenses.

As a side note, Nikon tells me the 180-600 is 100% Nikon DNA - Tamron was not involved.

Have you gotten your production one and are already working on the review…but maybe you can’t say so if you have. I’m interested in the new lens…but Ricci says it’s better than the 100-400 optically which is strange considering it’s not an S lens. I’ve got the 100-400 and 400/4.5 already…and adding the new one gives me a lot of length overlap…but I can see selling the shorter zoom if the new one is actually as good or better as it provides more flexibility for more distant subjects which can be a problem down here in FL. Your previous video didn’t compare the two zooms much, are you free yet to say anything comparison wise?

 

[Doug A.]

Not really on topic, but I want Nikon to make a Z mount of their epic 180mm f2.8 lens. That is the only thing keeping me from fully ditching my D850.

 

[Woodyg3]

Lots of speculation, but in the end does it really matter? Some of us are old enough to remember the Chesterfield 101 cigarettes that were advertised as a "silly millimeter longer" than the Benson and Hedges 100 cigarette in the '60s. Okay, so in this case it's a silly 20 mm shorter.

And Tamron or Nikon? Who cares who makes the lens, honestly. I mean if they were made by Fisher Price, I guess I'd be worried...

Dan, I'm not meaning to disrespect the question in the original post. These both look like they are going to be great lenses at a great price. The 180mm thing just stands out because we are all so used to 70-200 as being a standard across all the major brands, I think. I also suspect the 180-600 is so there is no gap between and the the 70-180.

 

[fredheidepriem]

I think it's a marketing or patent thing. At 180mm, they can brag they have more range than the competition. They can also say they aren't duplicating other lenses.

As a side note, Nikon tells me the 180-600 is 100% Nikon DNA - Tamron was not involved.

Good to know!

 

[RichF]

Also could be at 180 they could squeeze a 1/3 f stop faster glass (vs 200)

 

[Calson]

Most people are not aware of how small a company Nikon is relative to Canon and Sony or to what degree NIkon has struggled with sales and profits. Sales for the imaging group fell by 78% from 2014 to 2021. The company needs to be very careful with the resources it has for the design and manufacture of a completely new generation of mirrorless cameras and compatible lenses. Nikon also was very slow to shift from DSLR cameras and lenses, its cash cows, to mirrorless cameras and lenses.

In 2013 Nikon reached its peak in sales and has been on the decline until 2021 when it started to recover. The Z9, its first pro level mirrorless camera did not enter the U.S. market until 2022. Lack of mirrorless lenses has also been a problem for Nikon and its customers.

Teaming with Tamron by rebadging its lenses for the low end market was a necessary move and allows Nikon to devote more resources to more profitable lenses.

 

[Darrellhar]

I think it's a marketing or patent thing. At 180mm, they can brag they have more range than the competition. They can also say they aren't duplicating other lenses.

As a side note, Nikon tells me the 180-600 is 100% Nikon DNA - Tamron was not involved.

I was thinking it was a patent thing as well. I would think it would be much easier to get around lens design patents if you just change the focal length (which I would think would force a design change. Total guess as I'm not en engineer). Nikon made the change on the opposite end with the 24-120 which was originally on the road map as a 24-105.
I'm sure the lens are good for bottom line, as they hit a certain price point, but from a marketing stand point I think it was a mistake to rebrand those Tamron lens because now every lens they release is going to be questioned on forums like this if it is a Tamron rebrand. Tamron doesn't even have a 200-600 or 180-600 and everyone was talking about how it was probably going to be another rebrand. I'm sure that will happen for any other lens in the ball park of other lens Tamron sells.

 

[Nimi]

Tam

I was thinking it was a patent thing as well. I would think it would be much easier to get around lens design patents if you just change the focal length (which I would think would force a design change. Total guess as I'm not en engineer). Nikon made the change on the opposite end with the 24-120 which was originally on the road map as a 24-105.
I'm sure the lens are good for bottom line, as they hit a certain price point, but from a marketing stand point I think it was a mistake to rebrand those Tamron lens because now every lens they release is going to be questioned on forums like this if it is a Tamron rebrand. Tamron doesn't even have a 200-600 or 180-600 and everyone was talking about how it was probably going to be another rebrand. I'm sure that will happen for any other lens in the ball park of other lens Tamron sells.

Tamron makes many lenses for Sony and Nikon which aren't identified as such. Sony owns a big chunk of Tamron and a third of Tamron's business are white-labled lenses.

 

[O]

Reskinned or under the hood Tamron gear its still being sold at Nikon prices, Nikon is doing what most companies are doing, reducing costs increasing margins.
This is SOB, we will always pay for the comfort of brands.

Is or has the Alliance made or making Tamron the next Copal, i mean if i were CEO again of the large origination i would do exactly the same thing.

I do believe that Tamron has a very good IS or VR system in some of their lenses, handy for video.

Why build new manufacturing facilitates with volume sales declined or declining, capitalize on using surplus 3rd party production capacity.

I also wonder if things with Tamron may be in cases just a transition phase till new facilities are established in the USA for Nikon.

Canon is the giant, combine Sony, Nikon, Tamron, you have a good play here that leaves Sigma on its own and a perfect duopoly. Interesting.

Video is the future, Sony would love to own RED.

Only an opinion

 

[JoelKlein]

Just keep in mind that most zoom lenses aren't actually the exact focal lengths marked / are those focal lengths only at infinity. Usually they are "near enough" and marketing rounds up or down as they see fit

Is there a way to know for sure what FL it is from near to far on a chart?