Speed vs resolution for small bird photography X-H2 vs X-H2s

[Bisonbison]

And if video is not important, the new XT5 looks good. Good luck, it's a great time to be a photographer.

I would prefer the ergonomics of a X-H body more than a X-T. And at the moment, I’m focused on stills only. It certainly is a great to have so many options for incredible equipment.

@Chris K
It’s great to hear that the X-H2s is considerably better than non-BEAF cameras. I’ll take that and hope the next gen gets better. I would love to use a Z9 or A1, but at this time I can only allocate a limited amount of resources towards my equipment. Thank you for sharing your thoughts based on your real-world usage experience.

 

[StefanSC]

My approach with regards to speed and resolution has always been to ask myself : how long can I stay close to the subject?

For example, Blue and Great Tits can tolerate humans close to them for long so I can use a higher res, slower camera to capture more detailed and impressive shots of them.

On the other hand, Common Chiffchaffs or Eurasian Wrens rarely stay still and don't tolerate humans close to them for long, so I would grab a speed camera for those short moments when I can get the action.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

On the Fred Miranda Canon Forum there is a video on readout speed. The presenter's opinion was that the 15.5ms of the R5 was acceptable but the 31.3 of the R7 was not. His main objection to a mechanical shutter was noise. However, when I evaluated the R7 I shot in 15 f/s mechanical shutter and don't think the noise was as bad as the video shows.

He considered all stacked sensors as free from rolling shutter

Fuji XH2S 9.7
OM-1 8.0 (not on video. I looked it up.)
A92 6.2
R3 5.5
A1 4.2
R9 4.0

 

[Chris K]

Are you coming from an existing camera? Like an XT4 or EM1 or something?

You could buy just a lens now, and tack on the high-end body later. I shot both my XT4 and Z6 with my Nikon 500 PF for quite a while. I got lots of great photos even without BEAF. It's more work and you can't react as easily to chaotic motion, but don't let anyone tell you that you can't do wildlife photography without BEAF!

 

[abc123brian]

Thanks all for your feedback. I will be testing both the stacked sensor options OM-1 and X-H2s, hopefully side by side and make a final decision as to which way to go. I’ll use this week to plan some real world tests and execute them the following week. If there are any specific things that would be interesting to compare, I’d appreciate your continued feedback.

I am sure you plan to do this, but make sure you check focus in actual images and don’t just go on how it appears in the viewfinder. I did a comparison between the D500, X-T3, and Z6 a couple years ago and found the results to be very different than expected based on what I saw with tracking points in the viewfinders. It is good that you’re doing your own comparison so you can get a feel for which works best for your situation.

 

[Wrogu]

200-600 with a7iv is a resonable middle choice. Another option would be a7r5 - its about the Fuji combo price. And you get great cropability. All bells and whistles but stacked sensor.

200f2 Fuji is a great birding Lens. Works perfect for mammals as well. There are species of birds you can approach quite close. On xh2 IT Has fov of 300mm and with tcs its 420 or 600mm and it acts like a 280 f 2.8 or 400 f4. Pretty sweet if you ask me. It can be found with some great discounts. If you need range pick 150-600. It is just as fast as 100-500. Do not know if it is just as Sharp

 

[Bisonbison]

Are you coming from an existing camera? Like an XT4 or EM1 or something?

You could buy just a lens now, and tack on the high-end body later. I shot both my XT4 and Z6 with my Nikon 500 PF for quite a while. I got lots of great photos even without BEAF. It's more work and you can't react as easily to chaotic motion, but don't let anyone tell you that you can't do wildlife photography without BEAF!

The original plan was to wait for a Mirrorless D500. So I used a 300mm pf and Sigma 150-600mm C with a Z50. That wait didn’t look like it was going anywhere and other options opened up in Fuji, so I bought a Fringer adapter and currently use those lenses with an X-T3 (which I swapped the Z50 for). I’ve been considering various options for a few months and have cleaned out the gear closet with a view of consolidating. I am happy with a crop sensor and Canon, Fuji, OM have all come out with their expected bodies. I’m not holding my breath about Nikon or Sony jumping in with a stacked sensor crop body. Besides I’m looking forward to making a choice and moving on. But as I’ve waited so long, might as well make sure I’ve looked at everything carefully.
It’s certainly possible to get good bird photos without all this tech, but having it will (I hope) improve the consistency and overall experience in the field.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

Bisonbison,

I did exactly the same for the exact same reason four months ago, in my case a D-500/500pf. I shot the Canon R7/100-500 and the OM-1/100-400 for a weekend in the Southern California mountains. The subjects were small fast birds flitting from tree to tree to feeder to tree. I shot about 2500 shots with the R7 and maybe double that with the OM-1.

It was not near enough time to make an intelligent decision.

I was worried that the Olympus 100-400 was a piece of crap. Wrong. I was worried that I couldn't significantly crop with the 20mp m43 sensor. Wrong again! I was worried about rolling shutter on the R7 but 15 f/s was fine for me and I didn't mind the sound.

It was clear that either would be a serious upgrade from the D-500 so I made my decision because I liked the OM-1 combo in my hand better than the R7 combo.

Between the Om-1/100-400 and the Fuji XH-2S/150-600 I think you'll find that:
1-Really you need 800mm FF equivalent reach in many cases but in many cases you don't. Both cameras have zooms that cover the appropriate range.
2-You will love the compact nature of the OM-1/100-400 in your hand. It will hang on a Black Rapid strap quite easily. The XH-2S will be bigger, heavier and clunkier in comparison but actually not, big, clunky or heavy.
3-You will freak out at the ISO levels that the OM-1 will want to shoot at. Don't panic. Topaz Photo AI will remove the noise as will the free OM Workspace. You'll need something for the Fuji too.
4-You will find that the OM-1 has capabilities that rarely exist on other cameras but the XH-2S will also have the surprised.
5-You will be pissed that the OM-1 only shoots @ 25 f/s while the Fuji shoots higher. You will like 40f/s RAW for 186 frames on the XH-2S and find 25 f/s for 93 frames slow and limiting. Ultimately, you will settle for 20f/s like I did and only use 25 or higher for ProCapture. (You will be tempted to get a 300f4 to compensate (look used on fred miranda).
6-You will be amazed by how fast the OM-1 autofocuses. The XH-2S will seem pokey in comparison but is actually quite fast.
7-You are really struggle turning down that 26mp APS-C sensor and the lower effective F-stop (10.65 versus 12.6), the 40 f/s.....but........

In the end you will recognize that both are a great upgrade.

Been there, done this.
Tom

 

[O]

I would also share those concerns, but if you look at Pentax, they continue to exists so not sure it would be a real issue. I really liked the Fujifilm colors and files overall. I was disappointed with the way it rendered foliage/grass in landscapes. I know some have said the issue was resolved, but I found that it got better but never completely went away. I also didn’t like the particular 100-400mm I had as I found the images to always look a little soft. Overall my reason for mostly abandoning Fuji was the lack of long lenses which they now have a couple options. I really felt like you could almost just shoot jpegs with the Fuji and they looked great with the film simulations.

I agree that OM will likely be around for a while being a niche market but it is also likely to be a shrinking market so overall development may fall as time goes on. I don’t think Canon is going to be the demise of Fujifilm. My opinion is that Fujifilm’s product lines is different and they are expanding into Canon’s market share as opposed to the other way around.

1) I tend to find Fuji colour is absolutely brilliant for people portraiture and some other subjects, i don't find the colours to be what i particularly like for detailed landscape etc.

2) Irrespective of brands, I tend to not worry about super high frame rates at the expense of resolution so much, that said, i do love fast focus acquisition speed, i prefer higher optional resolution, absolutely accurate colours for everything, a degree of usable high ISO performance.

My Z9 is over kill for speed already, i wind it back mostly to 5-12 fps.

Only an opinion

 

[Roy]

Some months ago I had asked you all about how game changing you thought bird-eye AF was. Now, I’ve narrowed my choices down to two cameras that both offer bird eye AF (both Fujifilm).
The X-H2s a stacked sensor 26MP apsc body that can shoot upto 40fps in silent mode with AF and AE
OR
The X-H2 with a non-stacked BSI 40MP apsc sensor with slower sensor scan rate, but 15fps mechanical and 20fps electronic (with a 1.29x crop)

I’d plan to use the camera with a Fuji 150-600mm f5.6-8 lens (>900mm FF equivalent).

Due to my budget, I’m only considering these two options for now. While Fuji’s implementation of subject detect AF is in its first generation, the system as a whole suits my needs.

I am thinking of these options sort of like the choice between an A9 vs an A7Riv.
BIF is not my primary/only focus. If you had to pick one of those bodies for songbird photography, which would you choose?

I like the retro look of the XT5 - but I havent bought a crop camera since the Nikon D500...

 

[Bisonbison]

So I got the X-H2s and tried it with a fringer adapter and 300mm pf (the only native Fuji lens I have is the 16-80mm f4). I must say the bird AF was quite unreliable at that first outing. The most egregious of these inconsistencies was with a flock of American Robins foraging on the ground. The birds against the yellowish grass was quite contrasty and the focus box showed that it had the bird’s eye in focus. However when I looked on the computer at home, the pictures all look like the focus was on the grass, with the bird being soft or even out of focus. I used AF-C settings based on a well known forum member’s testing on the FM forum. He uses a fringer adapter with a 500mm pf lens.
I have updated the firmware to the latest versions on the camera as well as the adapter. I’ll be testing some more tomorrow. I also have an OM-1 coming next week and will see how that fares. I am hoping that has a better first impression.

 

[Bisonbison]

Final update: My choice is made. After trying it out briefly, I am not convinced that the Fuji bird detect is what I am looking for. I have sent the X-H2s back. There were multiple reasons for deciding not to go with Fujifilm. Mainly it was because the subject detect AF was no where close to what I had seen of Canon, Sony and OM/Olympus in terms of performance. Second, it didn't feel quite as comfortable in my hands. the function button placement on the top right surface of the camera were hard to reach for my fingers. Finally, the base cost @$2500 plus the need to get CFExpress cards to get the full range of performance was more than I wanted to spend on something I did not absolutely love.
I just received the OM-1 this afternoon. Initial reaction is that it feels good in the hands. I have not yet had a chance to test the OM-1 in the field as the only lens I have for it is the 60mm macro. But I plan to rent the 300mm f4 lens locally and try it out. I would probably have bought this camera at the regular price, but there are some absolutely amazing discounts on both Amazon and particularly Adorama right now. Which is just icing on the cake. I am hoping to get good used copies of 3 more lenses (300mm f4, 12-100mm f4 and 40-150mm 2.8) to complete my kit during the various sales that are likely to be happening this week.
I want to thank everyone who chimed in with advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it. Cheers!

 

[Tom Reynolds]

Final update: My choice is made. After trying it out briefly, I am not convinced that the Fuji bird detect is what I am looking for. I have sent the X-H2s back. There were multiple reasons for deciding not to go with Fujifilm. Mainly it was because the subject detect AF was no where close to what I had seen of Canon, Sony and OM/Olympus in terms of performance. Second, it didn't feel quite as comfortable in my hands. the function button placement on the top right surface of the camera were hard to reach for my fingers. Finally, the base cost @$2500 plus the need to get CFExpress cards to get the full range of performance was more than I wanted to spend on something I did not absolutely love.
I just received the OM-1 this afternoon. Initial reaction is that it feels good in the hands. I have not yet had a chance to test the OM-1 in the field as the only lens I have for it is the 60mm macro. But I plan to rent the 300mm f4 lens locally and try it out. I would probably have bought this camera at the regular price, but there are some absolutely amazing discounts on both Amazon and particularly Adorama right now. Which is just icing on the cake. I am hoping to get good used copies of 3 more lenses (300mm f4, 12-100mm f4 and 40-150mm 2.8) to complete my kit during the various sales that are likely to be happening this week.
I want to thank everyone who chimed in with advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it. Cheers!

300F4 $1750 on Fred Miranda. I might add that the 100-400 is my go to lens although I do have a 300f4

 

[Palmor]

Final update: My choice is made. After trying it out briefly, I am not convinced that the Fuji bird detect is what I am looking for. I have sent the X-H2s back. There were multiple reasons for deciding not to go with Fujifilm. Mainly it was because the subject detect AF was no where close to what I had seen of Canon, Sony and OM/Olympus in terms of performance. Second, it didn't feel quite as comfortable in my hands. the function button placement on the top right surface of the camera were hard to reach for my fingers. Finally, the base cost @$2500 plus the need to get CFExpress cards to get the full range of performance was more than I wanted to spend on something I did not absolutely love.
I just received the OM-1 this afternoon. Initial reaction is that it feels good in the hands. I have not yet had a chance to test the OM-1 in the field as the only lens I have for it is the 60mm macro. But I plan to rent the 300mm f4 lens locally and try it out. I would probably have bought this camera at the regular price, but there are some absolutely amazing discounts on both Amazon and particularly Adorama right now. Which is just icing on the cake. I am hoping to get good used copies of 3 more lenses (300mm f4, 12-100mm f4 and 40-150mm 2.8) to complete my kit during the various sales that are likely to be happening this week.
I want to thank everyone who chimed in with advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it. Cheers!

I honestly think you are going to love it. I have the OM-1/300 F4 and an A1/600 F4 and other than the obvious IQ advantages of FF+600F4 the OM combo keeps up with the A1. The 300F4 is a terrific lens and works really well with the 1.4x TC (so I suggest picking one up).

The 40-150 is also a great lens but depending on what you need it for there is also the Panasonic 50-200 f2.8-F4. So you get reach and a size/weight advantage for F4 on the longer ends of the zoom. If F4 is all you'll need in that lens I'd take a look at it.