Terrible problem with my Nikkor 800 6.3

[Jeff Lane MD]

I have 2 Z9 bodies. I've had an 800 f6.3 for a few months. It was working great. About a week ago, most of the shots I took one day (about 700) were out of focus. This was with a 1.4. I then tested it a number of times with and without the 1.4 with the same results. No trauma that I know of to the lens. Today I microadjusted it with a target on both bodies. Minimal adjustment. I tried it again and things still look awful. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have reloaded setting in the Z9. I disabled the lens I have 2 Z9 bodies. I've had an 800 f6.3 for a few months. It was working great. About a week ago, most of the shots I took one day (about 700) were out of focus. This was with a 1.4. I then tested it a number of times with and without the 1.4 with the same results. No trauma that I know of to the lens. Today I microadjusted it with a target on both bodies. Minimal adjustment. I tried it again and things still look awful. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have reloaded setting in the Z9. I disabled the lens adjustment ring that is set to aperture. The manual focus ring still works.

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[Jeff Lane MD]

Addendum: Old good pics first, bad, new pics last. Suggestions requested.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Are you sure the softness is not due to heat haze? 1120mm is a lot of focal length on a high MP body…are you noticing this consistently? Even in early morning lighting? The last 2 images clearly looks like heat haze to me.

 

[BlackRockArt]

Hello there, the first two photos look great, if you are referring to the spotted towhee, comorants and GBH, I think it's the background giving the camera trouble.

Sometimes some cameras have trouble handling "busy" backgrounds when there are multiple branches, water ripples, tall grass, this is the only reason I can think of.

Oliver

PS: I include a Spotted Towhee for reference.

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[Krümelkraft]

I agree with Oliver.
Dark birds in front of brigth, sunlit scenes.
However, I don't see anything awful in those pictures.

No. 3 maybe is falsely focused on the branch above the bird.

Have you used eye detection?

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

How does the lens perform on your bodies without a TC?

The only reliable lens calibration tool I have used "at home" is Recan FoCal with one of their large targets. FoCal both tests the lens' existing calibration AND can help you choose the Af-fine tune adjustment that should work best for your lens on the body you used for the test.

You should test the bare lens first and then with your selection of TCs. There is NO doubt that the combined effect of adding a TC, losing the stop or more of light requiring higher ISO and the "fact" that one "should" increase the shutter speed by at least the TC multiple combines to reduce the "quality" -- folk often under adjust their shutter speed to try to save ISO and this is a losing strategy. Try shooting at 1/3000th not 1/1500th and see if your images are sharper. YES you are trading shutter speed and ISO.

Other than that - there is a blade of grass in front of the owl in the first picture -- it is possible that this pulled focus -- see my thread on fighting with grass in the Maasai Mara.

OK -- I do not advocate adding a ZTC20 to this lens and on many occassions I wondered about the losses from using "only" a ZTC14

Other matters -- atmospheric distortion (normally HEAT haze) -- this is a "plague" when using very long lenses.

 

[Rjdane2]

I agree with the posters above check the lens in the golden hours of the day or in a large shaded area. My 600 especially with the 1.4 tele to 840mm can’t buy a sharp photo in the midday sun over the lake is shoot at. I personally think 1200mm is overkill esp in these situations. Just something easy to test out.

 

[Ralph]

I agree. it’s probably heat haze or background issues. Next time you are shooting in these situations , see if you are getting a firm focus lock. In these situations the focus indicator will flicker and you will hear chattering. The camera is a little confused in these situations.

 

[Charles Loy]

Have you test the lens on a static, stationary subject? Likely you have, but just suggesting that you may want to confirm poor focus that way.

 

[John_DE]

I agree with others that you are seeing atmospheric distortion. Even 800mm is a lot of magnification. Adding a TC to this lens is going beyond - only optimal conditions (beyond your control I would think) will give the results you are looking for.

 

[arbitrage]

Heat haze, shooting harsh backlit subjects too far away, missed focus on a branch.....nothing wrong with the lens....just need to reset your expectations.

IMO, anything that requires 1120mm is probably too far away unless technique and air conditions are absolutely perfect. 1120 may be worth using for close subjects in order to fill the frame given the rather long MFD of the 800PF.

 

[Jeff Lane MD]

How does the lens perform on your bodies without a TC?

The only reliable lens calibration tool I have used "at home" is Recan FoCal with one of their large targets. FoCal both tests the lens' existing calibration AND can help you choose the Af-fine tune adjustment that should work best for your lens on the body you used for the test.

You should test the bare lens first and then with your selection of TCs. There is NO doubt that the combined effect of adding a TC, losing the stop or more of light requiring higher ISO and the "fact" that one "should" increase the shutter speed by at least the TC multiple combines to reduce the "quality" -- folk often under adjust their shutter speed to try to save ISO and this is a losing strategy. Try shooting at 1/3000th not 1/1500th and see if your images are sharper. YES you are trading shutter speed and ISO.

Other than that - there is a blade of grass in front of the owl in the first picture -- it is possible that this pulled focus -- see my thread on fighting with grass in the Maasai Mara.

OK -- I do not advocate adding a ZTC20 to this lens and on many occassions I wondered about the losses from using "only" a ZTC14

Other matters -- atmospheric distortion (normally HEAT haze) -- this is a "plague" when using very long lenses.

Same with and without TC as stated. The owl was one of the good photos.

 

[Jeff Lane MD]

Heat haze, shooting harsh backlit subjects too far away, missed focus on a branch.....nothing wrong with the lens....just need to reset your expectations.

IMO, anything that requires 1120mm is probably too far away unless technique and air conditions are absolutely perfect. 1120 may be worth using for close subjects in order to fill the frame given the rather long MFD of the 800PF.

Thanks, except it was close and the autofocus was locked on the bird's head according to the EV.

 

[thelordofthelight]

Perhaps you should do a quick test indoor with a well lit test target to see if the sharpness isn't acceptable?

 

[John_DE]

Thanks, except it was close and the autofocus was locked on the bird's head according to the EV.

The Short-eared Owl and the Kestrel look great. The Towhee and GBH look like they may have a little motion blur and perhaps atmospherics. To me, the cormorants look like atmospherics. With 800mm to 1120mm on a high resolution camera, you may need to try higher shutter speeds to see if that is part of your issue. I don’t think anything is wrong with the lens. With my 800PF and Z9, I often shoot at 1/2500 or higher when hand-holding and if I can get enough light.

 

[Jeff Lane MD]

Thanks for the thought. The short eared owl and the kestrel also shot hand held at about the same shutter speed. I have shot at 1/2500 with no better results. Thanks for the thought.

 

[Steve]

Thanks, except it was close and the autofocus was locked on the bird's head according to the EV.

Sadly, locked on doesn't mean it'll be sharp when heat haze is involved. It's easily the #1 cause of soft photos. As others have mentioned, try it again during the golden hours (eps morning), on cloudy day, or when you have a good deal of shade. Also keep in mind that varying temperatures in the wind (as often happens over water) can cause thermal-induced sharpness issues.

 

[Kuau]

I agree with the posters above check the lens in the golden hours of the day or in a large shaded area. My 600 especially with the 1.4 tele to 840mm can’t buy a sharp photo in the midday sun over the lake is shoot at. I personally think 1200mm is overkill esp in these situations. Just something easy to test out.

Same here with my new Z600/4 TC shooting midday with the TC engaged I also struggle to get a sharp image

 

[BillNaiman]

I have a Z9 and the 800PF. I have experienced the issue with atmospheric heat softening images in the exact same situations as you experienced. For those conditions, I do not blame the lens, rather the setting. One thing I have tried and has helped to avoid soft focus or mis-focus of relatively stationary birds is to use custom focus square (C1 or C2) set to 1x1 with animal eye detect. This helps keep the camera from picking a high contrast item in the frame rather than the desired eye which may not have good contrast with the face of the bird. Even so, and not surprising, a black eye in a black animal face is a challenge for my Z9 regardless of lens.

 

[McStamp]

I go with the posters above who suggest the thermal-induced problems. Self shooting with the 800 Z 6.3 with excellent results. Bad experience in hot weather and/or bigger distances to the animal made me reluctant in using this focal length when conditions are not clement. I occur the same thermal sharpness problems with my 400 2.8 TC as well if heat starts to boil the surface.

 

[sinewsworn]

Heat and atmospheric distortion can cause the AF to hunt. Even well exposed and focused images can look noisy. I shoot near water regularly. The water/land interface with the suns heat causes temperature differentials that keep our AFs guessing. The longer the shot the more atmosphere the light must pass through picking up distortion along the way.

 

[Jeff Lane MD]

Thanks to all, although I got the same results on a much cooler and overcast day

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completely overcast day.

 

[Steve]

Thanks to all, although I got the same results on a much cooler and overcast dayView attachment 60571View attachment 60572View attachment 60569View attachment 60570 completely overcast day.

Are you shooting from inside or were you outside?

 

[Jeff Lane MD]

Outside.

 

[thelordofthelight]

I’d recommend you do some controlled tests indoors in a well lit room using a test chart with nice contrast and preferably a ruler. The second image of that bird with a black head looks like the plane of focus is just a tad behind the bird, indicating a back focus but unfortunately it is impossible to conclude without performing controlled tests and making sure the lens exhibits front/ back focus consistently.

Also, if you have some kind of stuffed toy can you try taking some pics where the subject occupies most of the frame? In the above examples, the subjects are still very small.