Darwin
Well-known member
I know on DSLRs, I never use the VR on my 500 E when shooting over 1/500 because images are soft. However, do I still apply that to the Z9? Maybe VR works different?
Using F lens VR on Z9?
- Thread starter Darwin
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IainD
Well-known member
May I add another section to your question? Is it possible to turn off IBIS in the Z9? I can't find it in the manual.
With a 500E your images should not be soft with VR at any shutter speed. I have the 600E and it LIVES on sport mode.... I never shut it off. And yes you can shut off the ibis in the z9 its in the photo shooting menu unless your lens has Vr in which case the switch on the lens controls it.
Darwin
Well-known member
This topic seems to live in controversy. Let me assure you, 100% certain that VR sport on 500E with a shutter speed of 1/1000 or higher on a DSLR will give you soft images when compared to it being off. Im going to do some testing today I think on my Z9.
Darwin
Well-known member
Ill post my findings.
If you find it makes a soft image send that puppy back to Nikon sounds like something is wrong me.
Nothing in the manual would suggest that it should be turned off at higher shutter speeds....
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Darwin
Well-known member
All About Nikon VR | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan
All About Nikon VR (vibration reduction) systems
I have never turned off the VR on my 500PF (or 200-500), may have to see if there is a difference. It very likely makes no improvement at shutter over 500th
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Darwin
Well-known member
The 500 PF is the outlier. I also had the 500 pf and never found any degradation with any shutter speed. And, because it's such a light lens and usually hand held I always kept VR on. Perhaps it's because of how short the lens is, and how short the VR rail is that it can keep up. But, without a shadow of a doubt, on the 500E, VR on fast shutter speeds will result I n many soft shots.
After watching his recent live stream I am less a believer in Mr. Hogan than I was before. I suggest contacting Nikon and describing your scenario to them and see what they say. I have the big brother to your lens and it works flawlessly at any shutter speed with Vr on.All About Nikon VR | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan
All About Nikon VR (vibration reduction) systemswww.dslrbodies.com
Darwin
Well-known member
I don’t know what to tell you. I’m certain.
Next to last sentence...... OFF may however produce better results in some cases depending on the type of tripod and on shooting conditions.
That's obviously in reference to tripod use and not in reference to shutter speeds. A general issue with shooting about a certain shutter speed would be said in no uncertain terms.
I have never had VR cause soft images using multiple bodies and multiple lenses, including the 600mm F/4 E, 500mm F4 G, 200-400 VR and 500mm pf. This topic gets argued about again and again, but never resolved. There are many things that affect image quality, but the one thing I've learned about photography is that there are no absolutes. To say that something always works this way or never works that way rarely turns out to be accurate.
To the OP: I can't help regarding the Z9, but perhaps sending Steve Perry a PM may get you a good response. I would only take advice on this from someone you know and trust.
To the OP: I can't help regarding the Z9, but perhaps sending Steve Perry a PM may get you a good response. I would only take advice on this from someone you know and trust.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
My experience has been the same. My VR is turned off most of the time. Unless I'm shooting static subjects at under 1/640th of a sec, i never turn my VR on. My 500 F4 G was unforgiving when it came to keeping the VR on at higher shutter speeds ( images were soft with VR on at higher shutter speeds). This is less of a problem with the E lenses. With both my 400 2.8E and 500 f4E, using sport VR is slightly better but when it comes to action I always get sharper images with VR totally off. Not that the images are totally soft with VR on but at 1:1 i see that tiny bit of loss of aquity.
Thern
Well-known member
Based on my own experience with the big guns I guess Thoms explanation to be very ‘possible’.
If the VR mechanism operates at a certain frequency a high enough shutterspeed might impact the result even ad a blur.
We won’t notice it very often, at least I didn’t because I know I lack the skills to be absolutely sure it wasn’t usererror.. (my guess is this happens to some others as well)
Btw The answer from our Guru in another topic on VR.
If the VR mechanism operates at a certain frequency a high enough shutterspeed might impact the result even ad a blur.
We won’t notice it very often, at least I didn’t because I know I lack the skills to be absolutely sure it wasn’t usererror.. (my guess is this happens to some others as well)
Btw The answer from our Guru in another topic on VR.
B_W2009
New member
I have the Z9 and 500 f4 E. I can tell you that so far I've had no issues with shutter speeds up to 1/2500th with VR. I can't say I have a library of images with the Z9 yet to show it, but the issue hasn't come up yet. I got the lens 2 years ago, after I moved from DSLR to mirrorless but this lens lives with VR turned on no matter what my shutter speed and I've had no issues on the other Z bodies. Maybe it's mirrorless vs DSLR issue?
I was testing some higher ISO details a couple days ago, so here's an unedited cropped and uncropped example at 1/2500th ISO 7200 at f5. No sharpness issues with VR on normal. I don't know how it'll look after upload compression, but it's as tack sharp as it can get.
I was testing some higher ISO details a couple days ago, so here's an unedited cropped and uncropped example at 1/2500th ISO 7200 at f5. No sharpness issues with VR on normal. I don't know how it'll look after upload compression, but it's as tack sharp as it can get.
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Personally Id like to see an example from the people seeing a sharpness degradation. It should be easy enough to prove. Take a shot of a stationary subject with and without vr at high shutter speeds and show everyone. Its not that I doubt your experience its just that I think your lens VR system may need calibrated or something
Thern
Well-known member
It’s not that easy to proof
Like I said the explanation Thom gives is a reasonable one.
Don’t forget you’re releasing the shutter at ‘A moment’ which travels at ‘a given speed’.
You’ll need the exact right (or wrong) timing to see the effect.
Problem is you will never be sure wether it was the result of this timing or your own fault.
Never the less knowing how VR works, knowing that shutterspeeds may be faster than the VRsystem clearly implies sharpness may be affected when using shutterspeeds beyond the speed of the VR system.
Nothing more nothing less!
Wether you see it or not isn’t the question, it’s purely a technical thing
Use that knowledge or don’t it won’t really affect your keeperrate in a noticeable way.
Like I said the explanation Thom gives is a reasonable one.
Don’t forget you’re releasing the shutter at ‘A moment’ which travels at ‘a given speed’.
You’ll need the exact right (or wrong) timing to see the effect.
Problem is you will never be sure wether it was the result of this timing or your own fault.
Never the less knowing how VR works, knowing that shutterspeeds may be faster than the VRsystem clearly implies sharpness may be affected when using shutterspeeds beyond the speed of the VR system.
Nothing more nothing less!
Wether you see it or not isn’t the question, it’s purely a technical thing
Use that knowledge or don’t it won’t really affect your keeperrate in a noticeable way.
Darwin
Well-known member
It isn’t a calibration issue.
precisely! However, I don’t find it hard to see the difference. Over 50% soft when using VR at 1/2000. Maybe if you are viewing images on a 1920x1080 monitor it doesn’t show, I don’t know.
Internal Vr calibration... not a focus calibration. If its over 50% of the images are soft mount the camera on a tripod use a remote release, lock focus and shoot a test target. Any other method you are using to determine its the Vrs fault is questionable. If its as bad as you say you should only need to shoot a couple dozen shots to know for sure its not other factors. If I had a vr lens that shot half its images soft it would be going back to Nikon ASAP.
I don’t use VR very often on my 500 F4G series Nikkor. The images in good light and therefore over 1000 were so sharp on the D500 with a tripod and gimbal that I opted not to turn it on. I admit this has just me thinking that keeping things simpler is better rather than any specific scientific evidence or testing.
The switch on the 500G is too easy to forget about and not turn off again. As I understand it, VR should always be turned off when carrying the lens, if the camera has not been turned off, which is also easy to forget.
I do turn it on when using a monopod if it is windy. I cannot say that I have found images soft when using the VR at higher shutter speeds.
It seems to me that there are too many “Ifs” here: moving platforms (boats), wind, hand held, monopods, tripods, gimbals, AF settings, panning technique, allowing the VR time to adjust before pressing down on a burst of shots and other camera variables like DSLR mirror vibrations and resonances.
That said, if any lens returns 50% soft images, surely it needs checking, servicing or even repair.
The switch on the 500G is too easy to forget about and not turn off again. As I understand it, VR should always be turned off when carrying the lens, if the camera has not been turned off, which is also easy to forget.
I do turn it on when using a monopod if it is windy. I cannot say that I have found images soft when using the VR at higher shutter speeds.
It seems to me that there are too many “Ifs” here: moving platforms (boats), wind, hand held, monopods, tripods, gimbals, AF settings, panning technique, allowing the VR time to adjust before pressing down on a burst of shots and other camera variables like DSLR mirror vibrations and resonances.
That said, if any lens returns 50% soft images, surely it needs checking, servicing or even repair.
To answer a couple of these questions:
VR Shutter Speed - What works varies by outfit. The entire system, camera, lens, TC, even optional grips come into play. You may find that 1/1600th is just fine with your lens on one rig and not as great on a different body at that same speed. The quality of the lens also plays a role - I find the more I send for a lens, the less I have to worry about VR
My 600 E and 500 PF are mostly fine at faster shutter speeds, but when I had the 200-500, I did notice it seemed more prone to VR-induced softness at higher speeds. Also, it's possible that even different "fast" shutter speeds over 1/500th ~ 1/1000th may have different impacts (I suspect this is true but haven't tested it).
Also, the problem with VR at faster shutter speeds is subtle. People expect it to be more binary than it is. In my experience, most of the time with higher end lenses, it's mostly fine at any speed - BUT - you may occasionally notice a drop in acuity in some shots. The trick is, it's not every shot and you have to ask yourself was is VR or something else? Where I notice the difference is that I simply seem to have fewer images showing a that slight occasional drop in acuity at faster speeds if VR is off. But again, the majority of the images are OK anyway.
How you're using the lens also comes into play - I find I almost never see a drop in acuity with static subjects, but when panning I see what I suspect is VR softness from time to time.
Bottom line is that I often have VR Sport on - and forget it's on - and still end up with plenty of sharp images. I mean, I try to remember to shut it off, but I often forget - probably because it's just not at the top of my list of critical things to worry about Also, it's important to test your rig at different speeds with VR on and off if you want to know for sure. Also, keep in mind that Nikon never says to turn VR off in any lens manual I've ever read, so they must think the issue is pretty minimal too.
VR + IBIS - This comes up a lot, but turning off IBIS / VR is actually straightforward. If the lens has a VR switch, VR and IBIS are controlled with that switch. If the lens doesn't have a switch, you turn it on and off in the menu. Also, they don't turn on and off independently.
VR Shutter Speed - What works varies by outfit. The entire system, camera, lens, TC, even optional grips come into play. You may find that 1/1600th is just fine with your lens on one rig and not as great on a different body at that same speed. The quality of the lens also plays a role - I find the more I send for a lens, the less I have to worry about VR
My 600 E and 500 PF are mostly fine at faster shutter speeds, but when I had the 200-500, I did notice it seemed more prone to VR-induced softness at higher speeds. Also, it's possible that even different "fast" shutter speeds over 1/500th ~ 1/1000th may have different impacts (I suspect this is true but haven't tested it). Also, the problem with VR at faster shutter speeds is subtle. People expect it to be more binary than it is. In my experience, most of the time with higher end lenses, it's mostly fine at any speed - BUT - you may occasionally notice a drop in acuity in some shots. The trick is, it's not every shot and you have to ask yourself was is VR or something else? Where I notice the difference is that I simply seem to have fewer images showing a that slight occasional drop in acuity at faster speeds if VR is off. But again, the majority of the images are OK anyway.
How you're using the lens also comes into play - I find I almost never see a drop in acuity with static subjects, but when panning I see what I suspect is VR softness from time to time.
Bottom line is that I often have VR Sport on - and forget it's on - and still end up with plenty of sharp images. I mean, I try to remember to shut it off, but I often forget - probably because it's just not at the top of my list of critical things to worry about
Also, it's important to test your rig at different speeds with VR on and off if you want to know for sure. Also, keep in mind that Nikon never says to turn VR off in any lens manual I've ever read, so they must think the issue is pretty minimal too. VR + IBIS - This comes up a lot, but turning off IBIS / VR is actually straightforward. If the lens has a VR switch, VR and IBIS are controlled with that switch. If the lens doesn't have a switch, you turn it on and off in the menu. Also, they don't turn on and off independently.
Thanks for the info on VR + IBIS!To answer a couple of these questions:
VR Shutter Speed - What works varies by outfit. The entire system, camera, lens, TC, even optional grips come into play. You may find that 1/1600th is just fine with your lens on one rig and not as great on a different body at that same speed. The quality of the lens also plays a role - I find the more I send for a lens, the less I have to worry about VR
Also, the problem with VR at faster shutter speeds is subtle. People expect it to be more binary than it is. In my experience, most of the time with higher end lenses, it's mostly fine at any speed - BUT - you may occasionally notice a drop in acuity in some shots. The trick is, it's not every shot and you have to ask yourself was is VR or something else? Where I notice the difference is that I simply seem to have fewer images showing a that slight occasional drop in acuity at faster speeds if VR is off. But again, the majority of the images are OK anyway.
How you're using the lens also comes into play - I find I almost never see a drop in acuity with static subjects, but when panning I see what I suspect is VR softness from time to time.
Bottom line is that I often have VR Sport on - and forget it's on - and still end up with plenty of sharp images. I mean, I try to remember to shut it off, but I often forget - probably because it's just not at the top of my list of critical things to worry about
VR + IBIS - This comes up a lot, but turning off IBIS / VR is actually straightforward. If the lens has a VR switch, VR and IBIS are controlled with that switch. If the lens doesn't have a switch, you turn it on and off in the menu. Also, they don't turn on and off independently.