Videos vs. Photos?

[realspeed]

I do shoot a lot of videos and have done over the past 12/13 years . One thing to watch out for is monitor frequency . I got caught out with this my 4k montor being 60hz and one camcorder whatever setting caused terrible "judder" when panning. I could not match FPS whatever i tried .
making videos with a camera is ok providing you don't run into overheating.
Another thing doing videos with a camera is zoom. To zoom in means camera shake ,even on a tripod, let alone zoom range. Oone trick I learn't early on is if doing landscape panoramas os not to pan too fast .
I use a rule of thumb of having an object pass across the camera/camcorder screen is to count at least 10 seconds as a rough guide line. By doing this slows down how quickly one shoots a scene. Tracking say a horse is different entirely.

For me the solution is to keep a camera for stills and a camcorder for videos and a lot of the above concerns vanish.
Example when in Iceland this doing this would be impossible with a camera be easy with a decent camcorder

of course along with video comes sound which is a subject all on its own. depending if using sound recorded at the time or replaced with music. do you go for directional or stereo extrnl microphone. is it going to be used for studio or outside use.

As a complete amature I can only speak about what I am comfortable using. Iif going down the camcorder route I Hve found the Panasonic HC-X1500 which allows live braoadcast or to youtube etc all without extra equipment. Not the cheapest @£1000 approx but one I can highlly recommend (I have no financial connection with Panasonic or anything else) that is what that video was taken with.
As for microphones I didn't want to have on for direction and another for stereo so picked the Azden SMX-30v which does both via a dial. I chose this for several reasons. the audio cable is detachable,.not fixed into the mike ( had one that the cable got damaged and had to throw out the microphone) power source either by 2xAA bateries or from camcorder turns off when camcorder switched off, also better playback sound than most cost around £250.

my rig on table top tripod with wired remote control on handle

If I can help advise or answer questions then I shall only be too happy to pass on my thoughts

crossing the artic circle on a cruise

 

[Lee R]

Is the goal to have video, stills, or both? What's the subject?

Stills at 60 FPS. Video quality not an issue. I'm wondering if you can just 8K60 video a subject that moves quickly and extract decent stills from the frame grabs.

I see Divinci can convert the video easily to TIFF stills, I know lightroom and DXO can't apply ai denoise to a TIFF, maybe Topaz can?

I'm looking for a decent way to push the Z8 up past the 20FPS RAW limit if needed and get more out of it then the JPEG modes which are DX resolution at 60 FPS. This would be 12 bit 38mp if it can work.

 

[ricardo00]

120fps is 4k though correct? 8mp. That's what I was thinking 8K60 for, 38MP at 60FPS. Which if NRAW can hold some RAW editablity (It's 12 bit RAW) would exceed the A9iii resolution at 60FPS or the A-1ii.

I'm pretty curious to try it. Shutter speed will have to be set high.

As Nimi has noted, if the shutter speed is too high, it will be a jerky video. Normally one shoots video at a shutter speed twice the fps (ie. 120 fps is normally shot at 1/240). So if you are shooting the video at 60fps, the shutter speed would be 1/120. So the idea that one can simply pull off a still from video of action is not so "easy". I have done it, for example:

https://flic.kr/p/2pRND7m

 

[Nimi]

Stills at 60 FPS. Video quality not an issue. I'm wondering if you can just 8K60 video a subject that moves quickly and extract decent stills from the frame grabs.

I see Divinci can convert the video easily to TIFF stills, I know lightroom and DXO can't apply ai denoise to a TIFF, maybe Topaz can?

I'm looking for a decent way to push the Z8 up past the 20FPS RAW limit if needed and get more out of it then the JPEG modes which are DX resolution at 60 FPS. This would be 12 bit 38mp if it can work.

Yup, any shutter speed you want. It's essentially "pre capture RAW." There is some compression but it's mostly inter-frame. If you're shooting a Z8, watch out for overheating. If it's Z8/Z9, get a big card. And a powerful computer.

 

[ricardo00]

Stills at 60 FPS. Video quality not an issue. I'm wondering if you can just 8K60 video a subject that moves quickly and extract decent stills from the frame grabs.

I see Divinci can convert the video easily to TIFF stills, I know lightroom and DXO can't apply ai denoise to a TIFF, maybe Topaz can?

I'm looking for a decent way to push the Z8 up past the 20FPS RAW limit if needed and get more out of it then the JPEG modes which are DX resolution at 60 FPS. This would be 12 bit 38mp if it can work.

Hmm, give it a try. If you only care about stills, think you are better off not shooting video.

 

[Lee R]

Hmm, give it a try. If you only care about stills, think you are better off not shooting video.

No I shoot regular video too I've just never tried pulling stills. I was thinking if this was a roundabout 60FPS RAW stills function.

The Z8 is capped at 20 FPS RAW and 30 FPS JPEG at 45mp, 60FPS JPEG at DX size and 120 at 11mp. This would grant a 60FPS 38mp output with 12 bit NRAW to work with so I would think better than the 60FPS JPEG stills pre-capture mode. The A9iii is 60FPS at 24mp, so if the 12 bit NRAW files can hold up to editing then you would be exceeding that resolution.

If 20FPS is enough I just hold the shutter for minutes on end like you would make a video clip since the Z8 doesn't have RAW precapture. But it can shoot HE RAW forever so that helps. But having a 60 FPS workflow option could be useful for the fastest stuff, like small birds until we see the refresh of the Z9 and trickle down over the next few years.

Not something I would use all the time but you could have this set for a click of the switch to video mode which would actually be very helpful if the stills grabs hold up for quality.

 

[abc123brian]

I try to think about how I would prefer to display the final product. Some things are more interesting in video and others in stills. Say you had a Bald Eagle sitting on a branch with an incredible background. This would likely be more interesting as a still image. If you had two large bison fighting during, a video might be better. I don’t intend to imply relatively stationary subjects stills and action means video because that is not the case. It’s pretty specific to the situation. Think of the photos of 399 with the quads walking across the snow that many photographers captured a few years ago. As a still that is a powerful image and I don’t think a video would bring the same level of emotion or interest. For me, if I am unsure or think either could work I tend to default to stills because having a photo to display would likely be more important to me than the video.

 

[realspeed]

My problem is that although I'd like to shoot movies at times, it can cause you to miss great opportunities with stills. In fact, when I have played with movies in the past, invariably something happens and I wish I had been shooting stills. That's my main reason for not taking more movies - fear of missing a great shot.

Steve
I can understand your concerns but it all depends on what your taking videos with. Having the right equipment is the first thing which is why I use the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder. Let me explain. After taking the video with this camcorder to extract a still may be even better than taking a photo. On this camcorder one can playback thumbnails of the video. Playback may not be that you want to see the whole video just certain frames from it. with this camcorder it allows one to play forward or backwards frame by frame slowly or even individiually until you get to the right frame.
a small camera icon is there, one just clicks on it and the photo is taken. So no just missing a shot or anthing else.


Example video

https://flic.kr/p/2pvSiqF

still from above

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[MikeA]

There have also bee a lot of times when photographing some action, after it is over I think "gee, I should have captured that on video!" I shoot well over 90% stills. Mainly because video is not top of mind. One of my goals moving forward is to shot a little more video than I have in the past.

Same for me!

 

[ricardo00]

Same for me!

It is the "grass is always greener" on the other side. Sometimes when I am shooting video I think I would be better off shooting stills. So doing stills and video can drive one nuts!

 

[RikWriter]

It may sound silly but give the GoPro quick app a try, feed it 10 short clips and see if you like the results. It takes very little effort and for a short story of a location it can work quite well with some captions. It's pretty low effort and learning curve. Just feed it some 1080p/4k video and it's going to auto edit.

If I were trying to make money off it, I would give it a shot. But I do it out of a passion for the hobby and that passion isn't for video so it's probably not worth the effort for me to learn it.

 

[Doomrider74]

I prefer stills over video, although since I got my Z8 I've been playing with video, especially if the light is poor. The trouble is, I rarely use a tripod and my handheld video isn't good enough yet to keep videos smooth. I don't want to keep taking my camera on and off the tripod as I'll miss something.

 

[Woody Meristem]

Although I probably shoot an average of 100 stills each and every day, 365 days a year, I probably shoot fewer than 20 videos a year other than on my camera traps which take mostly videos.

 

[Steve]

What do you think of shooting 8k60 clips that way if something does happen you can pull stills? I don't know the quality of something like that but it's something I want to investigate. There should be 60FPS NRAW stills at 38mp off the Z8/Z9 which in theory would be pretty decent quality.

It's something I want to try, it's also potentially a hack to get 60 FPS out of a Z8/9 with some compromise but still possibly much better than using JPEG precapture.

For wildlife shooting both would be tough as it's such a focused activity. Even with the switch which is basically near instant on the Z8/9 it's still a wrong place at the wrong time action if an extraordinary event happens. Unless that frame capture really could work?

Pulling stills from video seems, ostensibly, like a good idea, but an outlined by other posters, there are some limitations there that I'm not willing to accept. So, I stick with stills. The thing is, I don't care enough about video for it to compromise my stills in any way, so I skip it.

 

[Steve]

Steve
I can understand your concerns but it all depends on what your taking videos with. Having the right equipment is the first thing which is why I use the Panasonic HC-X1500 camcorder. Let me explain. After taking the video with this camcorder to extract a still may be even better than taking a photo. On this camcorder one can playback thumbnails of the video. Playback may not be that you want to see the whole video just certain frames from it. with this camcorder it allows one to play forward or backwards frame by frame slowly or even individiually until you get to the right frame.
a small camera icon is there, one just clicks on it and the photo is taken. So no just missing a shot or anthing else.


Example video

https://flic.kr/p/2pvSiqF

still from above

View attachment 101827

I appreciate the info, but unless I can pull out a still with the same resolution and latitude as my RAW file, it's not going to work - at least not for me. To each their own

 

[sh1209]

I like both pretty much equally. There are times I go through spurts of doing more video than still and vice versa. I nearly always take two bodies out whenever I shoot and one will have a shotgun mic attached with a shorter focal length such as the 100-400mm zoom. I also always take my zoom recorder even if not shooting video in case the opportunity arises for some good audio capture. The audio aspect can be a hobby by itself at times lol. With today’s highly capable bodies, I think everyone should at least try some video. It’s addicting lol.

 

[seh]

I appreciate the info, but unless I can pull out a still with the same resolution and latitude as my RAW file, it's not going to work - at least not for me. To each their own

In time it will work, and AI will likely facilitate culling from thousands of frames on high capacity drives. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, but I'm a curmudgeon who only occassionally uses video to capture grandchildren antics.

 

[dabhand16]

I always make photos up to just recently, when I tried my first few videos on my last trip to Yellowstone. I also tried out iMovie for the first time, mixing photos and videos for my showing to family and friends. I had the feeling it was more interesting for the audience by also including compelling music.

I was just curios - on this site one gets the impression everybody (like me up to now) is shooting photo images and no videos, even though our cameras (like my D850) can do both. It is a question of quality, photos vs. video on these cameras? Or just the preference for photos?

I've always thought that images are more interesting to an audience if they have been put together with AV or video software and have a soundtrack. I have done this with stills for a while but mostly for big events like weddings or holidays.

I used to shoot a lot of video well over 20 years ago and editing involved using 5 VCRs, separate titler and sound mixer, and miles and miles of cables. Ended up using mini dv tapes but I found the editing to be really boring and trying to get clean sound and suitable background music tedious, so I gave up with video. There is a reason why pro video is shot by a team!

 

[realspeed]

I've always thought that images are more interesting to an audience if they have been put together with AV or video software and have a soundtrack. I have done this with stills for a while but mostly for big events like weddings or holidays.

I used to shoot a lot of video well over 20 years ago and editing involved using 5 VCRs, separate titler and sound mixer, and miles and miles of cables. Ended up using mini dv tapes but I found the editing to be really boring and trying to get clean sound and suitable background music tedious, so I gave up with video. There is a reason why pro video is shot by a team!

A lot has change in 20 years, even in the 13 or so years I have been doing videos (for myself that is). Modern camcorders ar completely different now. For example my Panasonic HC-X1500 can transmit live or to something like youtube without any extra equipment. Even size has been reduced to what would have never been dreamed of all those years back. even cost has become a lot cheaper

 

[MikeA]

I like both pretty much equally. There are times I go through spurts of doing more video than still and vice versa. I nearly always take two bodies out whenever I shoot and one will have a shotgun mic attached with a shorter focal length such as the 100-400mm zoom. I also always take my zoom recorder even if not shooting video in case the opportunity arises for some good audio capture. The audio aspect can be a hobby by itself at times lol. With today’s highly capable bodies, I think everyone should at least try some video. It’s addicting lol.

I sure will try using video somewhat more since it went well additionally to the stills on my last trip and made for a way better presentation to my family and friends. I also used iMovie for animating some of my best stills of groups of animals like coyotes and moose along with cool music.

 

[dabhand16]

A lot has change in 20 years, even in the 13 or so years I have been doing videos (for myself that is). Modern camcorders ar completely different now. For example my Panasonic HC-X1500 can transmit live or to something like youtube without any extra equipment. Even size has been reduced to what would have never been dreamed of all those years back. even cost has become a lot cheaper

Yes - I know there has been a lot of changes. I would not want to upload any unedited video anywhere TBH just as I never do with stills. One of the things that bothered me was the shrinking size of the video cameras. So much harder to stabilise and the controls squeezed in or put on menus. Best camera that I shot with back then was a Panasonic VHS one that sat on my shoulder! Although it was very bulky, it was not so difficult to carry and was a joy to use.

Modern mirrorless cameras have great video specs but have awful video ergonomics and need so much extra kit to shoot video. No matter what camera you use getting clean sound is sometimes impossible and the editing still has to be done which for me was the killer. Came back from a holiday in Italy with 2500 clips and before I got halfway I lost the will to live.

 

[MikeA]

I appreciate the info, but unless I can pull out a still with the same resolution and latitude as my RAW file, it's not going to work - at least not for me. To each their own

I was not thinking of pulling stills from video, of course I prefer the raw too. Talking stills in RAW is my default. But more than often, there might also be time to take a short video, when an animal gives you more time. Afterwards, mixing stills, video and music in iMovie is a great way to share an experience with others. I hope I don't miss too many really great shots that way, but I will at least try more videos in the future with still images still being my top priority.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

My problem is that although I'd like to shoot movies at times, it can cause you to miss great opportunities with stills. In fact, when I have played with movies in the past, invariably something happens and I wish I had been shooting stills. That's my main reason for not taking more movies - fear of missing a great shot.

That has been my problem so that not wanting to miss a great still shot has kept me from shooting video. My solution has been to use a second camera to shoot video while still shooting stills. When photographing from a hide in Africa with a ledge to support a camera, have placed the second camera on a beanbag, precomposed and then when the action starts I hit record and then take still shots with the other camera while the first camera is recording.
When photographing in a blind where I am using a tripod, I mount 2 cameras on the tripod using the FlexShooter ball/gimbal head along with the Twin Shooter accessory, as shown in this picture.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[sh1209]

I sure will try using video somewhat more since it went well additionally to the stills on my last trip and made for a way better presentation to my family and friends. I also used iMovie for animating some of my best stills of groups of animals like coyotes and moose along with cool music.

Yeah iMovie is a really good program and what I used for several years

 

[wotan1]

I see video has value as an art form.

I have not chosen to pursue video because to me it seems to require a complete new field of knowledge and new skills to master. While I can shoot video with my Z9's I would also need new equipment and new computers and software to handle it properly.

I am not interested in casual video nor am I interested in casual photography, either of which can easily be done with a smartphone. I want to work with good and even remarkably good equipment, and learn how to use this equipment effectively. I relish the artistic composition and want to learn and grow in the craft. .

Still photography keeps me quite busy and engaged. At this stage of my life I don't have enough time or interest to also pursue video.