What can the Flexshooter mini take ?

[Woodpecker]

With the changeover to Z I also try to slim down my gear a bit over all and in this context I thought I ask around here because of an idea.

I have a big Gitzo 3235LS with a Flexshooter Pro that I got for the big glass and I am still using it when working stationary (blind/hide/tent) with my old and heavy 500 f4G.
But as I have to use the chance if I can go out, I often do it with the "whatever-I'll-find-is-great" approach, which means the heavier stuff stays at home, I shoot handheld while hiking, but I can run into an interesting scene, an encounter with animals or find some great mushrooms for doing a macro. For part of that I need a tripod and having a good traverl tripod with two interchangeable center columns I thought it might be a good idea to have a Flexshooter Mini on this tripod with a quick release system to allow me swapping the center column as well as swapping the head if needed - a bit inspired by the way @Steve does it in one of his Costa Rica videos, but for me on a slighly different level .

My travel tripod is the Feisol CT-3441 T including a short center column for ground level working. It's rated for 20kg load.
The Flexshooter Mini is rated for 9,5 kg.

I don't have this lens, but just for the calulation I took a "worst case" scenario and combined a Z8 with a Z 400 plus an external TC adding up to something like 4,1kg.
This would mean that the Flexshooter Mini wouold carry less than 50% and the tripod less than 25% of their reated load.
With the Z lenses I own it would be even less.

What is your experience with the Flexshooter Mini in terms of weight and size of camera gear you put on top it and still felling comfortable ?

I know there will be some people calling me crazy, but I have made really good experience with this tripod so far. In the past it regularly carried a gripped D850 with a 500PF and once I had the problem that I left my Gitzo behind accidently when packing for a tour and the only way to shoot my big 500 was to have it on the Feisol tripod with nothing but a ball head CB-30D on it. Crazy ? Yes, but beside having to pay attention that camera combo wasn't flipping over (the common ball head issue) it worked surprisingly well as far as stability of support was concerned. And this combo was by far heavier than my worst case calculationm above. So the idea is probably not as crazy as it seems zto be.

Looking forward to your thoughts ...

 

[EricBowles]

I don't have either of the Flexshooter heads, but have handled them. The big issue with a small head and a lot of weight is balance. With a high quality head there is plenty of clamping power, but I find it much more difficult to maintain control and balance using a heavy rig on a small head. The small adjustments and moves are fast rather than smooth. Maybe the question is whether the small weight savings is worth the compromise?

You can certainly make any kind of compromise work in a pinch. Sometimes for a quick shot I balance my 800mm PF on my tripod head rather than clamping it into place. For travel I might use a lighter head and legs if necessary.

If weight is an issue, I'd probably skip using a 400mm f/2.8 and use a 400mm f/4.5, 500mm PF or 600mm PF if I was using a smaller or lighter head like the Flexshooter Mini. That provides a small compromise in image quality and wide open aperture but maintains a more normal load on the head providing better technique and balance. The 500mm f/4 is a relatively big lens and I'd probably consider it above the capacity of the Mini for routine use.

 

[GrandNagus50]

As someone definitely afflicted with a degree of GAS, I do own both the Flexshooter Pro and the Flexshooter Mini. I got the mini first, and I actually found it to be just fine as a means of supporting a lens as large as a 600mm f4. But I thought that perched on a full-sized tripod, the mini looked kind of like a pinhead. I bought a Flexshooter Pro, rationalizing that this included a quick-release clamp as a distinguishing better feature.

That said, ultimately I think Eric is correct, i.e., that the issue is not with the ability of the mini to "support" a large or fairly heavy rig, but with its handling/balance characteristics. A larger ballhead will simply be a bit easier to maneuver and control when supporting a heavier load.

 

[ajrmd]

I have a flexshooter pro which I purchased years ago when I used heavier lenses like 600 f/4 etc. Now with the smaller bodies/lenses I feel that the "pro" is a bit overkill and in fact the combinations such as a z8/800 pf is insufficient (too lightweight) for the load design. The mini is slightly smaller, about 200g lighter and the rated load is 9.5kg as opposed to 45kg. Flexshooters are designed to avoid the ballhead flop and they are incredibly stable. Any tripod has the potential to fall over if not used properly, however I've never encountered any problems with a flexshooter head. Unfortunately, I don't have enough experience with the mini in order to comment though the flexshooters work best on a tripod without a center column.

 

[Woodpecker]

If weight is an issue, I'd probably skip using a 400mm f/2.8 and use a 400mm f/4.5, 500mm PF or 600mm PF if I was using a smaller or lighter head like the Flexshooter Mini.

Thanks for coming back.

Well, it might be missunderstandable (probably my use of the language), but I don't intend to use a 400 f2.8, or should I say I'm sure I won't be able to afford one - at least in this life . In most cases it will be the Z 180-600 or the Z 100-400 sitting on the maller tripod and this for weight reasons, but just to keep it positioned better for the primary target and/or when making use of the MFD of these zooms for "the small ones". Putting the big old 500 on the Mini would in best case an ermergency action as I desbribed above.

But I get your point. I haven't got information yet whether or not the relation between the ball diameter and balancing spring force is identical between the Pro and Mini. So it could well be, that although the weight limit would not be an issue, the same camera combo would balance worse on the Mini than it does on the Pro.

 

[Woodpecker]

As someone definitely afflicted with a degree of GAS, I do own both the Flexshooter Pro and the Flexshooter Mini. I got the mini first, and I actually found it to be just fine as a means of supporting a lens as large as a 600mm f4.

Well that sounds great, especially because I wouldn't in my case have the problem with "optical/esthetical imbalance".
To me this means that the little sibling at least doesn't have technica issue even with bombs like a 600 f4.

And yes, I agree with Eric as well. I am fully aware that for certain combos the bigger base is the beeter solution, but it's good to know that for the scenarios I described I could rely on the smaller version if packing size and weight is an issue.

 

[Woodpecker]

I have a flexshooter pro which I purchased years ago when I used heavier lenses like 600 f/4 etc. Now with the smaller bodies/lenses I feel that the "pro" is a bit overkill and in fact the combinations such as a z8/800 pf is insufficient (too lightweight) for the load design. The mini is slightly smaller, about 200g lighter and the rated load is 9.5kg as opposed to 45kg. Flexshooters are designed to avoid the ballhead flop and they are incredibly stable. Any tripod has the potential to fall over if not used properly, however I've never encountered any problems with a flexshooter head. Unfortunately, I don't have enough experience with the mini in order to comment though the flexshooters work best on a tripod without a center column.

Good to know that it could happen to have "the opposite problem" with the Pro.
In terms of center column I just checkt it from the measurement side.
Having a base diameter of 58mm, there would be ab bit of an overhang over the plate of the center column of a couple of mm and this carbon stuff is so stable that I wouldn't be afraid giving it a try. And there is another thing:

Although the Flexshooter is "also" a normal ball head, it turned out to be difficult to use it as such on a tripod with bigger platform and no conter column. the reason is, that if you need to put the clamp sideways the slamp or at least the knobs tend to collide with the legs. On a tripod with a center column the head sits this extra bit higher that you actually can put the clamp fully to sideways while still being able to rotate 360°, although the Flexshooter doens't have a panning platform, but you can rotate the center column. Of course this is by no means usable for panoramas, but at least you have full flexibility with the positioning of the feet in difficult terrain while still being able to turn the head with the clamp on the side in any direction you want.

 

[Garfield]

Other than the more limited counter-balance vs. the pro, the mini it will take pretty well anything you throw at it. It does require more careful balancing when shooting longer/heavier glass, but the pro is not immune from having to properly balance your rig too, so I really don't see the downsides and I love the 1 lb weight.

My light-weight setup is the Flexshooter mini on an RRS 24L tripod -- 4.7 lbs and capable of going "tall" for uneven terrain and high-angle shots.

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[agrumpybirdphotographer]

Other than the more limited counter-balance vs. the pro, the mini it will take pretty well anything you throw at it. It does require more careful balancing when shooting longer/heavier glass, but the pro is not immune from having to properly balance your rig too, so I really don't see the downsides and I love the 1 lb weight.

My light-weight setup is the Flexshooter mini on an RRS 24L tripod -- 4.7 lbs and capable of going "tall" for uneven terrain and high-angle shots.

View attachment 82018View attachment 82019

Just curious but do you mind saying what the device is attached to the camera hotshoe?

 

[Woodpecker]

My light-weight setup is the Flexshooter mini on an RRS 24L tripod -- 4.7 lbs and capable of going "tall" for uneven terrain and high-angle shots.

Thanks for this one ... light weight setup ? ... o.k. ... greetings from Einstein ... "Everything is relative" ...

But thanks for this confirmation. Considering the lenses I have I am pretty sure that as soon as I can afford to replace my 500 f4 tank with a native and substantially lighter Z lens I should be fine, whatever I can afford to put on.

Apart from that I would also pose the same question as @agrumpybirdphotographer.

I would expect something liek spotting / pointing device ???

 

[wotan1]

I confess I have never tried a Flexshooter. I am partial to gimbal heads and I currently use the Wimberley 200. I use it on a Gitzo 3 series systematic tripod.

I really like the way a gimbal handles and balances.

For those concerned about weight there is the option of the Jobu design BWG-J3dlx which only weighs 1.5 lb and costs less than $250. My photo buddy got one of those and likes it.

I have also come up with a system for carrying a tripod hands free fully extended in the field.

I am having a custom photo pack built. My pack builder came up with a padded cradle design, the cradle mounts on the side of the waist strap. The folded but fully extended tripod's legs fits inside the cradle The gimbal side has an adjustable strap that clips into a strap on the backpack. The tripod balances by my side with all the weight on my hips.

I even have a strap with a QD connector on the opposite side of the pack, that allows me to carry the 800mm pf and z9 on the opposite side. All hands free.

i expect the custom pack to get built in the next month or so and I will take pictures.

 

[ajrmd]

I confess I have never tried a Flexshooter. I am partial to gimbal heads and I currently use the Wimberley 200. I use it on a Gitzo 3 series systematic tripod.

I really like the way a gimbal handles and balances.

For those concerned about weight there is the option of the Jobu design BWG-J3dlx which only weighs 1.5 lb and costs less than $250. My photo buddy got one of those and likes it.

I have also come up with a system for carrying a tripod hands free fully extended in the field.

I am having a custom photo pack built. My pack builder came up with a padded cradle design, the cradle mounts on the side of the waist strap. The folded but fully extended tripod's legs fits inside the cradle The gimbal side has an adjustable strap that clips into a strap on the backpack. The tripod balances by my side with all the weight on my hips.

I even have a strap with a QD connector on the opposite side of the pack, that allows me to carry the 800mm pf and z9 on the opposite side. All hands free.

i expect the custom pack to get built in the next month or so and I will take pictures.

Looking forward to seeing those photos. Anyhow, there is nothing like a gimbal in terms of relative degrees of freedom though it comes at a price, namely size/bulkiness and some access restrictions. Also, it doesn't offer the flexibility that a ballhead design affords. The Flexshooter is a ballhead within a ballhead, supported by springs and it gives significant freedom of movement without the risk of flopping. In my experience, it doesn't pan as smoothly as a fluid head or gimbal, though for many users, myself included it is a really good compromise.

 

[wotan1]

Thanks. I note the Jobu gimbal appears to weigh the same as the Flexshooter, 1.5 lb.



I would probably want to try out the flexshooter but I can't justify the cost right now. I have been told by She Who Must Be Obeyed to curb my GAS spending. I need to let the heat die down for a while.

 

[Garfield]

Just curious but do you mind saying what the device is attached to the camera hotshoe?

It's a red dot reflex sight -- helps to quickly get BIF in the narrow FOV.

 

[Garfield]

Thanks for this one ... light weight setup ? ... o.k. ... greetings from Einstein ... "Everything is relative" ...

Indeed everything is relative, but to go even lighter than a series 2 tripod means a "travel" tripod which in my experience are too shaky and way too short for stand-up wildlife shooting.

 

[Woodpecker]

Indeed everything is relative, but to go even lighter than a series 2 tripod means a "travel" tripod which in my experience are too shaky and way too short for stand-up wildlife shooting.

Yup, agree. If I wanted to put something on it like you do in your pictures, i can understand your point. At the moment I still have the 3 series Gitzo for the heavier stuff.
In the meantime I decided to order the Flexshooter Mini. Basically anything native Z stuff I have would fit easily according to the feedback I got here in the meantime. If I get something bigger - lke you - I may have to rethink the tripod part of the story.

Admittedly I tried to do a couple of crazy things with the little Feisol. Interesting thing is that empiric tests in terms of damping showed an impressive behaviour and getting rid of vibration quickly is one of most critical things that get into people's mind if talking about "lighter" support. One of the aspects is that in my case stationary work in most cases means sitting down. With the legs not extended very much, i.e. segment two of four may be 30% out, this little thing is amazingly stable. So I will give it a try and if nothing goes wrong I can come back with first impressions by the end of next week. Looking forward to what the guys here think about it ...

Thanks for your input anyway.

 

[Woodpecker]

I would probably want to try out the flexshooter but I can't justify the cost right now. I have been told by She Who Must Be Obeyed to curb my GAS spending. I need to let the heat die down for a while.

Great, thanks for this one. It's always fun to learn things about another language that you wouldn't learn in a course or find it in a dictionary.

Beside the financial side all I can say is that I started on my Gitzo with a gimbal (Benro GH2-C) upon recommendation of a friend (nature pro). After he discovered the benfits of the Flexshooter for himself, I followed and didn't regret it a single moment. The only disadvantage I could think of is the nominal limitation in tilting, but this can be dealt with as you have a two-in-one solution with two balls sitting in or around each other. With the outer ball fixed and leveled the inner ball is working as the "gimbal replacement" and relative to the outer ball the tilt angle is +/- 33° if i remember right. However, if you have to look "deeper down" or "further up" you can enter the area "beyond the manual", tilt the outer ball and then I got as far up or down as I could with my gimbal before bumping on the tripod platform with body or lens. It is considerably lighter, even compared to the carbon fibre gimbal I was using, and - for me one of the main arguments - it is far more compact and easier to handle if you have it at the side of your backpack and/or juggling around with the tripod in tricky surroundings (tight bushy environment, tent, ...). If the minister of finance gives green light, I suggest you try it and I am pretty sure you won't regret it.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

Based on input from @Garfield I got the Mini with the lever clamp, and am quite happy with the size and functionality. It really is easier to travel with and walk around with.

All this talk of Ministers and She Who Must Be Obeyed.....cats are the ones that make all the decisions. Everyone knows that.

 

[Woodpecker]

Now, here are the 1st impressions of my attempt to make my light carbon tripod to something like an "almost-one-for-everything" device.

After receiving lots of interesting input in this thread - thanks again to everybody - , here's what a combination of the Feisol CT-3441T with a Flexshooter Mini looks like. Please apologize for the IQ (vintage iPhone ) but I think the images tell the story.

Top: Tripod with long center column mounted
Bottom: Detail of the head with partly extended center column including quick release system.

Inspired by by @Steve 's video about quick release for exchanging tripod heads I looked for an alternative a littel less bulky, because I am not dealing with so massive things like a Gimbal and 600 f4 lenses . What I found was the Leofoto QS device, which instead of an Arca clamp used a kind of bayonet mount that I find easier to detach and attach. In fact, depending on you hands, in many situations you will even be able to attach and detach it single handed, may it be just the head or veven the camera with the head attached (obviously not for the longer and heavier glas.

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Top: Bottom part of the Leofoto QS that is available in different sizes. I use the 60mm version.
Bottom: Bottom of Flexshooter Mini with top part of Leofoto QS-60

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I did a couple of quick tests with bigger lenses.

Top: Z8 + Z 180-600
Bottom: Z8 + AF-S 500 f4 G VR with FTZII, feet flattened and center column partly extended.

The setup with the big 500mm is vertainly nothing that would be used on a regular basis, but nevertheless the tripod takes in incredibly well.
The tripod is rated for 20 kg, the Flexshooter Mini for 9,5 kg.
The combo on the right is about 5,5kg, i.e. the tripod is loaded at about 30% of its capacity, the head at about 58%, so this is all in the green area.
Of course it wouldn't make sense to have this kind of gun on this tripod in full stretch, but nevertheless it is useful for working in sitting position or lower, especially when flatening the feet and have ohne the first of 4 elements strechted. Withe the center column stretched the solution shows astonishingly low level of swinging, but because rthe setup is so slim at the top end, it can be very useful in tricky situation with space limitations, e.g. no space towards the head level and/or setting up two tripods in a tight tent.

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Another aspect is that the flexibilty of the Flexshooter can be used can be used to its full extend. On tripods without center column the Flexshooter is so close to the main tripod platform, that using the conventional ballhead function is limited. If trying to use the 90° tild position the knobs (or with other version also the lever) tends to collide with the tripod platform or feet (experienced e.g. with the Flexshhoter Pro on my Gitzo GT 3235LS). On this tripod due to the fixing mechanism for the center column the head sits just this bit higher to allow full 90° tilt with the Flexshhoter while the knobs remain free and usable.

Top: Z8 with Z MC 105 f2.8 and SmallRig L-Frame hanging sideways on the fully tilted Flexshhoter Mini allowing 360° rotation without touching anything.
Bottom: Z8 with Z MC 105 f2.8 and SmallRig L-Frame with fully tilted Flexshhoter Mini hanging of the L-Frame and both center columns with Leofoto QS base plate

As a standard the Feisol center columns have a threaded bottom plate that you can screw in an out, but which makes changing the center column awkward.
Solution (here yellow) remove original cap and push a Tetrapak screw top with the right diameter in. This way the thread in the carbon pipe is protected against debris, especially mud and sand when accidently getting too close to the ground.

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The QS system is either bought as a set or you can get separate ones of the little top plates. So, - although not depicted here, I have the second top plate sitting under my Feisol CB-30D, so that I can put the Flexshooter aside if required and have the ordinalry ball head installed. But after finding out how well the "normal ball head" of the Flexshooter works I might as well use the Feisol ball head on on my Joby Gorillapod, because it's ball head is simply not nearly as good.

Perhaps this might help others a little if they think about using a Flexshhooter Mini a bit more flexible.

 

[ajrmd]

Very useful information for those on the fence. I think you’ve highlighted the weak link of deploying the Flexshooter on a center column tripod. For static usage I’m sure it’s fine though I wouldn’t be confident on this platform for panning.

 

[Woodpecker]

Very useful information for those on the fence. I think you’ve highlighted the weak link of deploying the Flexshooter on a center column tripod. For static usage I’m sure it’s fine though I wouldn’t be confident on this platform for panning.

It depends on what you have in mind with static use and panning. I certainly agree that this can't be the solution for high precision panning, panorama or ultra long time exposure with the center column fully up. For hardcore landscapers this is definitely not a serious solution. They would prefer totally different solutions for the head alone.

With the center column is a bit like with TC's or zoom lenses:
You know you make a compromise in stability - or IQ rfespectively - and you try to avoid using it if possible, but depending on what you want to achieve it might still be the best solution overall in your situation with what you have on hand .

Due to the way I have to use my time out there, I simply was carrying two tripods around - unless I have the rare opportunity and privilege to go for a planned shooting for a specific target with my friend in a NP. With this setup I can reduce it to one for probably 90% of the time and am still able to do everything from wildlife sitting somewhere hidden through landscaping while hiking up to macro/detail close to the ground.

Apart from having the gimbal alternative part included now, I did everything with this tripod already before this modification, but now it's all so much easier. No more accidental flipping of the camera when siting somewhere waiting for the target to show up and at the same time not fighting against the safty resistance of the ballhed when trying to wollow the subject, no more screwing of heads and caps on and off for changing the column to get close to groud level,... you name it.

I will for sure run in situations in which something else would be better. The question is, how often dioes this happen and how far I will be away from the optimum with the solution I have chosen. Everybody of us here is different, so there will be as many optimal solutions as here are photographers around.

I am with what @Steve said in his video about the new Z8 firmware: I am happy to share my two cents with the people her, but in he end everybody should just use it to find the best solution for himself rather than mimicing the solution of someone else and "declare" it to be the personal optimum.

 

[Woodpecker]

Just a short amendment for people being worried about size. Here's an attempt to give you an idea.
Left: Short center columnn with Leofoto QS-60 and Feisol CB-30D ball headi
Right: Flexshooter Mini with Leofoto QS-60 on the long center column in the tripod

Althouhg the are not perfectly in line you can see that it's almost identical in height.
With both heads on the table, just with the QS plate underneath, both are 85mm high from desk level to the inner platform of the Arca clamp.
The weight difference is about the same as the wight of the iPhone the picture were taken with.

I guess that's why they call this Flexshooter "Mini" . It's amazing what these guys have packed in siuch a little thing.

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[ajrmd]

Again, thanks for posting your observations and I am a big fan of the Flexshooter head for its utility, size, and function. I'm still trying to understand how you employ it for video or stills panning for WL with a center column. In all of the years I've been shooting, I've never had a center column tripod stable enough for those applications and they all flex or wobble. As much as I prefer my Flexshooter in place of a gimbal (size, compactness, ease of use, access to the entire camera) it is not as smooth or have the ROM of a gimbal. Nonetheless, it is still my first choice for travel mated to a bowl tripod.

 

[Neil H.]

Hi! I have a gripped D850 and use it with a 1.4TC and the 500pf lens. I have posted here several times on this topic. This combination is very back heavy and needs a longer foot in order to balance on the Flexshooter mini (which I also have). With the longer foot there is no problem at all balancing the rig. When using just the lens foot on the 500pf it is not possible to balance the camera / lens combination mentioned here (which you are familiar with). The extra length is required behind the foot on the 500pf lens.

 

[TomSavage]

It's a red dot reflex sight -- helps to quickly get BIF in the narrow FOV.

Does the red dot attached to the hot shoe or to the cage? I have trouble getting my 800 PF F6.3 on target sometimes. Looks like you have the same lens. Looking online, I'm only seeing the device used on rifles only.