Z 600mm - no way to automatically correct exposure when TC engaged

[Ivan Rothman]

The Z9 allows automatic compensation when shooting in full manual exposure mode and the f-stop changes when using a zoom lens. This can be set in Custom Settings Menu, item b7, and if turned ON you can choose whether shutter speed or ISO is varied to maintain same exposure.

With the new Z 600m f4 or the 400mm f2.8, there is no way to have this done automatically. If you are in manual exposure mode without auto ISO, then engaging the built in TC will result in a one stop underexposure, unless you manually dial in an exposure correction.
It would be nice if a future firmware update would allow the option of automatically correcting exposure when the TC is engaged.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

The Z9 allows automatic compensation when shooting in full manual exposure mode and the f-stop changes when using a zoom lens. This can be set in Custom Settings Menu, item b7, and if turned ON you can choose whether shutter speed or ISO is varied to maintain same exposure.

With the new Z 600m f4 or the 400mm f2.8, there is no way to have this done automatically. If you are in manual exposure mode without auto ISO, then engaging the built in TC will result in a one stop underexposure, unless you manually dial in an exposure correction.
It would be nice if a future firmware update would allow the option of automatically correcting exposure when the TC is engaged.

Come on Ivan -- "no way to do this automatically" -- GOOD -- If you are telling me the folk who use these lenses (which include me) for work want or need more automation you mistaken. Just because Polen said he wants such a feature is precisely why Nikon should avoid it. "Hay Siri take photo" -- even Polen said 3-clicks on the rear dial does the same. AND so what under by 1EV -- the Z9 is iso invariant so this is a non issue if there is "no time" to change settings. BTW - why reduce shutter speed when boosting ISO may led to better outcomes if the subject s moving fast. AND since I only shoot wide open in pre-dawn and post-sunset settings I am good to keep the aperture setting at f/5.6 or f/8 (or f/4=-f/5.6 with the 400TC) and engaging the TC makes no difference.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

Come on Ivan -- "no way to do this automatically" -- GOOD -- If you are telling me the folk who use these lenses (which include me) for work want or need more automation you mistaken. Just because Polen said he wants such a feature is precisely why Nikon should avoid it. "Hay Siri take photo" -- even Polen said 3-clicks on the rear dial does the same. AND so what under by 1EV -- the Z9 is iso invariant so this is a non issue if there is "no time" to change settings. BTW - why reduce shutter speed when boosting ISO may led to better outcomes if the subject s moving fast. AND since I only shoot wide open in pre-dawn and post-sunset settings I am good to keep the aperture setting at f/5.6 or f/8 (or f/4=-f/5.6 with the 400TC) and engaging the TC makes no difference.

It’s not that I don’t know how or am too lazy to flip the TC switch and then click another control 3 stops to the right or left.
As a wildlife photographer it is all about speed. When I have a bird in flight or a cheetah running towards me and I’m shooting at 20 FPS then I want the choice of the camera immediately adjusting to maintain my choice of exposure

 

[Wrogu]

It could work if it were possible to set a manual parameter to be automatically changed. And it could be ISO. Probably noone would want camera to change shutter on its own, and opening the shutter would be a very rare case. Or set a parameter to do not allow camera to make changes at all and keep it fully manual, just like it is now.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

It could work if it were possible to set a manual parameter to be automatically changed. And it could be ISO. Probably noone would want camera to change shutter on its own, and opening the shutter would be a very rare case. Or set a parameter to do not allow camera to make changes at all and keep it fully manual, just like it is now.

I would definitely opt to change the ISO

 

[pwaring]

I'm a little bit confused by this thread. Unless I've misunderstood your desire, menu option B7 does exactly what you want. I'm in full manual, 1/100th, 800 ISO, f2.8 and I then engage the TC on the 400mm Z. With B7 on and set to ISO I am then on 1/100th, 1600 ISO f4 with no resulting under or over-exposure. You don't need to be in Auto-ISO for this to happen. If you're already at f4 or higher before you engage the TC then it will not do anything because your exposure has not been affected.

 

[arbitrage]

I'm a little bit confused by this thread. Unless I've misunderstood your desire, menu option B7 does exactly what you want. I'm in full manual, 1/100th, 800 ISO, f2.8 and I then engage the TC on the 400mm Z. With B7 on and set to ISO I am then on 1/100th, 1600 ISO f4 with no resulting under or over-exposure. You don't need to be in Auto-ISO for this to happen. If you're already at f4 or higher before you engage the TC then it will not do anything because your exposure has not been affected.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought this was the case and was confused by this thread. Canon has had this option since 2013 or so when they released the 200-400TC. It is a great feature for both variable aperture zoom lenses and built in TCs. I know with Canon if you left the camera on to do an external TC swap it would also shift your exposure for you but not if you powered off. Not sure how Z9 behaves in that scenario?

 

[pwaring]

Thanks for clarifying. I thought this was the case and was confused by this thread. Canon has had this option since 2013 or so when they released the 200-400TC. It is a great feature for both variable aperture zoom lenses and built in TCs. I know with Canon if you left the camera on to do an external TC swap it would also shift your exposure for you but not if you powered off. Not sure how Z9 behaves in that scenario?

I never take stuff on and off whilst the camera is on because then I'm not using the sensor shield.. but I was curious too. In both cases (camera on or off during the TC being put on) the feature works and ISO is updated to compensate.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

I'm a little bit confused by this thread. Unless I've misunderstood your desire, menu option B7 does exactly what you want. I'm in full manual, 1/100th, 800 ISO, f2.8 and I then engage the TC on the 400mm Z. With B7 on and set to ISO I am then on 1/100th, 1600 ISO f4 with no resulting under or over-exposure. You don't need to be in Auto-ISO for this to happen. If you're already at f4 or higher before you engage the TC then it will not do anything because your exposure has not been affected.

I don’t yet have the 600 f4 to test it out
Setting B7 to adjust exposure works when I’m using my 100-400 wide open but then the aperture becomes smaller when I zoom in to 400mm.
but to my knowledge setting B7 will have no effect with the 600 f4 when engaging the teleconverter

to be clear, I’m a big fan of full control of the camera and usually will be in full manual mode. But for a wildlife photographer who doesn’t want to miss the sudden peak action opportunities, there are times I will be in manual with auto ISO turned on. I do this when light is constantly changing with cloudy/partly sunny skies. Or when subject is moving in and out of sunny/shady locations.
I still have control when auto ISO is on because I can change exposure compensation

So when I am in full manual mode and once I have set aperture, shutter speed and ISO, it makes sense to me to have option of telling the camera that every time I flip the TC switch from 1X to 1.4X or back the other way that the camera will increase or decrease ISO by one stop to Maintain the exposure that I set. I can then be photographing a fast moving subject or quickly going from a near subject to a distant subject and “zooming” in and out with the teleconverter without any change in exposure

 

[pwaring]

I don’t yet have the 600 f4 to test it out
Setting B7 to adjust exposure works when I’m using my 100-400 wide open but then the aperture becomes smaller when I zoom in to 400mm.
but to my knowledge setting B7 will have no effect with the 600 f4 when engaging the teleconverter

to be clear, I’m a big fan of full control of the camera and usually will be in full manual mode. But for a wildlife photographer who doesn’t want to miss the sudden peak action opportunities, there are times I will be in manual with auto ISO turned on. I do this when light is constantly changing with cloudy/partly sunny skies. Or when subject is moving in and out of sunny/shady locations.
I still have control when auto ISO is on because I can change exposure compensation

So when I am in full manual mode and once I have set aperture, shutter speed and ISO, it makes sense to me to have option of telling the camera that every time I flip the TC switch from 1X to 1.4X or back the other way that the camera will increase or decrease ISO by one stop to Maintain the exposure that I set. I can then be photographing a fast moving subject or quickly going from a near subject to a distant subject and “zooming” in and out with the teleconverter without any change in exposure

So I have the 400mm f2.8 Z and had the 180-400 f4, both with built-in teleconverters and they both behaved exactly as you want the 600mm Z to behave. There is no reason at all to expect the 600 Z to not do exactly what you want. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it wouldn't do what you want.

Like you, I use a mix of auto-iso and full manual and I use B7 set to ISO so that I don't have to mess around with my exposure settings when flicking the TC on or off. It is a really good feature and I'm sure you'll love using it on your 600mm!

 

[Ivan Rothman]

So I have the 400mm f2.8 Z and had the 180-400 f4, both with built-in teleconverters and they both behaved exactly as you want the 600mm Z to behave. There is no reason at all to expect the 600 Z to not do exactly what you want. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it wouldn't do what you want.

Like you, I use a mix of auto-iso and full manual and I use B7 set to ISO so that I don't have to mess around with my exposure settings when flicking the TC on or off. It is a really good feature and I'm sure you'll love using it on your 600mm!

If that is true I’ll be very happy
It will be the first thing I try when I get my 600

 

[Steve]

LOL, I knew there was something I wanted to test and forgot about! This was it. I'll check the new 600 when I get it, but I doubt the camera will adjust like ti does with a zoom. However, one of the reasons I didn't think / really notice it when shooting manual is that I have ISO on the control ring so adjusting for the TC is nearly instant. In fact, with the control ring I often adjust exposure as I'm shooting an action sequence, at least a slower action sequence

 

[Woodyg3]

I realize you may have reasons not to, but this is an example of why I use auto ISO a large part of the time.

 

[arbitrage]

LOL, I knew there was something I wanted to test and forgot about! This was it. I'll check the new 600 when I get it, but I doubt the camera will adjust like ti does with a zoom. However, one of the reasons I didn't think / really notice it when shooting manual is that I have ISO on the control ring so adjusting for the TC is nearly instant. In fact, with the control ring I often adjust exposure as I'm shooting an action sequence, at least a slower action sequence

According to pwaring both his Z400/2.8TC and his F-mount 180-400TC do switch the exposure automatically when switching the TC in and out. So I'm certain the 600 will behave the same. My understanding is the whole point of this feature was for built-in TCs (more so than zoom lenses). At least this was the case when Canon introduced the feature in FW updates way back when they released the 200-400/4 with built-in TC.

 

[Steve]

According to pwaring both his Z400/2.8TC and his F-mount 180-400TC do switch the exposure automatically when switching the TC in and out. So I'm certain the 600 will behave the same. My understanding is the whole point of this feature was for built-in TCs (more so than zoom lenses). At least this was the case when Canon introduced the feature in FW updates way back when they released the 200-400/4 with built-in TC.

That's good news! Hopefully I'll see my copy at the end of the month - this time I'll pay attention

 

[arnfinn]

It works like a charm with the 400/2.8TC and should work the same with the 600/4TC.

 

[Kuau]

It works like a charm with the 400/2.8TC and should work the same with the 600/4TC.

Hmm. on my Z9 which I have set to "M" mode and I don't use auto ISO. I went into "B7" and tried both ISO and shutter speed and on my Z400/2.8 when I flipped the TC on and off the exposure did not adjust. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[O]

I would definitely opt to change the ISO

haven't you got the ISO floated ?

 

[Steve]

Lots of conflicting info here. To be clear, the way that setting is supposed to work is in full manual mode where you set the ISO, F/stop, and shutter speed. The idea is that the camera will adjust your choice of either the shutter speed or ISO (set in the menu) if you do something like zoom a variable aperture zoom lens to compensate for the change in F/stop. If you're trying it with the TC and are using Auto ISO, that's a different thing and not relevant for this feature. Also, that feature doesn't seem to work with the 30/60/120 FPS frame rates.

Now, the big question is, based on the info above, does it work?

Worst case, I'll have it figured out when I get the 600

 

[marc]

According to pwaring both his Z400/2.8TC and his F-mount 180-400TC do switch the exposure automatically when switching the TC in and out. So I'm certain the 600 will behave the same. My understanding is the whole point of this feature was for built-in TCs (more so than zoom lenses). At least this was the case when Canon introduced the feature in FW updates way back when they released the 200-400/4 with built-in TC.

It indeed does work. (I also have both Z400TC & 180-400TC)
I agree with @pwaring

 

[Kuau]

It indeed does work. (I also have both Z400TC & 180-400TC)
I agree with @pwaring

Marc why is it not working on my Z9 and Z400/2.8 as I mentioned I have my Z9 in manual mode not using auto iso and have B7 turned on. Shooting RAW only and at 20 FPS
When I flick on and off the built in TC the ISO does not change

 

[marc]

Marc why is it not working on my Z9 and Z400/2.8 as I mentioned I have my Z9 in manual mode not using auto iso and have B7 turned on. Shooting RAW only and at 20 FPS
When I flick on and off the built in TC the ISO does not change

Not sure, have you made your selection in CUSTOM SETTINGS B7 Keep Exp when f/ changes? Mine is selected to ISO, with that enabled your ISO levels will float, your f stop will naturally increase 1 stop with TC engaged.
Works with AUTO ISO ON or OFF. I always use AUTO ISO.

 

[fcotterill]

So I have the 400mm f2.8 Z and had the 180-400 f4, both with built-in teleconverters and they both behaved exactly as you want the 600mm Z to behave. There is no reason at all to expect the 600 Z to not do exactly what you want. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it wouldn't do what you want.

Like you, I use a mix of auto-iso and full manual and I use B7 set to ISO so that I don't have to mess around with my exposure settings when flicking the TC on or off. It is a really good feature and I'm sure you'll love using it on your 600mm!

Agreed, the b7 feature is available in the D6, so makes sense it's standard in the Z9. Obviously it's an essential feature for action scenes with lenses such as the 80-400 G but only in full Manual (otherwise AutoISO compensates when the TC is changed).

I cannot remember if a FW upgrade added this feature in the D5, but it is not available in my D850 on current FW: toggling internal TC on/off.

 

[marc]

Agreed, the b7 feature is available in the D6, so makes sense it's standard in the Z9. Obviously it's an essential feature for action scenes with lenses such as the 180-400 TC but only in full Manual (otherwise AutoISO compensates when the TC is changed).

I cannot remember if a FW upgrade added this feature in the D5, but it is not available in my D850 on current FW: toggling internal TC on/off.

The D5 had it from release day if I remember, I shot a lot of frames with this on my 180-400.

 

[fcotterill]

The D5 had it from release day if I remember, I shot a lot of frames with this on my 180-400.

I also took many images with 180-400 and D5 but never recall checking for b7, as this combination worked fine in AutoISO! Strange, Nikon have failed to update the D850 with the b7 menu feature, considering the 180-400 was released a mere 6 months after this camera.