Z Nikkor Teleconverters: Review

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This is the most extensive TC lab tests I have seen. The numbers show a pretty significant loss in sharpness using the TCs. The difference I see on my screen seems much smaller. It leads me to question how sharp is sharp enough. I have dual 27 in monitors, 4K UHD (3840 X 2160 pixels) so I often have the image full screen on one monitor when I edit. Even at full screen, the raw file width of 8256 pixels is being down sampled to 3840. Is this why I seem to see less TC impact on sharpness than the lab tests indicate? I rarely print larger than 11X14 inches (28X35.5 cm) so I might see more difference if I did larger prints. I do see some distinctions. The TC20 on the 70-200 2.8 S is visibly softer. I rarely use this combination. However, I can see little or no difference when I use the TC14 with the 70-200 lens. Maybe I need to train my eyeballs to see more subtle difference or maybe I just need to quit obsessing over such small distinctions.
 
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Ricci looked at these 2 years agom but it’s good to see them on the latest long primes.

I do use the z 2x on my z70-200 and find the image quality to be pretty good. Focus acquisition is always a factor for me, on any lens as I’m using my lovely Z6.

 
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I have both of them…and IMO for screen output in good to medium low light and cropping to anything bigger than about 90% of DX…there isn’t a difference in the output as seen on the screen for the 1.4…there will be a slight difference in bokeh if you are shooting wide open but for the vast majority of shots it isn’t really better, just different. The 2.0 is the same but at DX crop one can see a slight difference in sharpness at the center and perhaps a little more in the corners. I don’t use the 2.0 much…it’s an I got no other way thing for me and IMP with the 45MP sensors using the 1,4 and DX is slightly better than the 2.0 and no crop…but again the difference for screen output is negligible. Of course…part of that is that I have the S 100-200 and 400/4.5 lenses in front of the TC and they’re really good anyway…and I might think different if I printed but that’s really infrequent for me…but on my Apple Studio display they look pretty darned identical at display on the screen size. Given my allergy to carrying the heavier 800, 600, or 400…and the display output quality…this is one of those better is the enemy of good enough things for me. I’m with CoyoteCreations…
 
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I did not mean to imply that the 70-200 + TC20 is "bad". Center and mid-frame are quite acceptable. The corners get a little soft but for most birds that doesn't matter. The reason I rarely use that combination is because I have the 100-400 when I want to get into the 300 to 400 mm range and it is a little sharper at similar apertures.
 
These results give a useful benchmark, particularly as Nikon's own mtf data for the ZTC14 and ZTC2 are with the 70-200 f2.8S.

It would be most useful if they also tested the the two "best in class" Z 400 primes with these Teleconverters. These data should then estimate the upper limit on image quality with these Z TCs.

Although we know these Ztcs are a significant improvement, it will be useful if PL also provided definitive comparisons of the two F-mount TC14 III and TC2 III on a 400 f2.8E FL. These respective pairings give excellent image quality IME
 
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Little oftop, but about TC too.

From the nikon site:

MTF 400 2.8 FL + TC 1.4 III are little better than MTF 400 2.8 TC with buit-in TC included.
Differences are not huge, but...
Strange, I always think - built-in TC will be better then external TC.
Interestingly, MTF 400 TC are worst, than 400 FL.

Comparisions from the nikon site:

400 TC + internal TC included:
20231205_103652.jpg
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400 FL + external TC 1.4 III:
Screenshot_20231205_103606_Chrome.jpg
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It is indeed interesting--and I'm feeling justified in keeping my 600/fl :) More seriously though, the main advantages to the Z TC superteles are weight and size (no adapter), possibly better Z system focusing, likely better Z system image stabilization, and ease of adding and removing the teleconverter (just a switch).
 
moving a bit off topic but the benefits, the Z TC versions of the 400 and 600mm bring to the game certainly outweight any theroretical optical differences by far.
I'm feeling more than justified having my 600mm FL sold in the early days of the Z600TC announcement when used market pricing for FLs were still reasonable.
Weight, balance, VR, AF speed&noise, handling and TC at fingertip brings user experience and possibilities to another level - at a rather significant but justified (2 lenses in 1) price obviously....
 
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I have both of them…and IMO for screen output in good to medium low light and cropping to anything bigger than about 90% of DX…there isn’t a difference in the output as seen on the screen for the 1.4…there will be a slight difference in bokeh if you are shooting wide open but for the vast majority of shots it isn’t really better, just different. The 2.0 is the same but at DX crop one can see a slight difference in sharpness at the center and perhaps a little more in the corners. I don’t use the 2.0 much…it’s an I got no other way thing for me and IMP with the 45MP sensors using the 1,4 and DX is slightly better than the 2.0 and no crop…but again the difference for screen output is negligible. Of course…part of that is that I have the S 100-200 and 400/4.5 lenses in front of the TC and they’re really good anyway…and I might think different if I printed but that’s really infrequent for me…but on my Apple Studio display they look pretty darned identical at display on the screen size. Given my allergy to carrying the heavier 800, 600, or 400…and the display output quality…this is one of those better is the enemy of good enough things for me. I’m with CoyoteCreations…
Question: By DX crop do you mean the DX crop in camera? I was wondering if I could just use the DX in camera crop on my Z8 in place of a 1.4 TC on my 100-400 mm lens and get similar results? Thanks - I am just learning about these things.
 
Question: By DX crop do you mean the DX crop in camera? I was wondering if I could just use the DX in camera crop on my Z8 in place of a 1.4 TC on my 100-400 mm lens and get similar results? Thanks - I am just learning about these things.
Cropping to DX dimensions is the same from a quality standpoint whether you do it in the camera or in post processing (e.g. Photoshop, Lightroom or similar). Some folks prefer to crop in-camera as you see something closer to the final image in the electronic viewfinder of a mirrorless camera and the files are smaller on the memory card and the computer if you know you'll crop to at least DX sizing anyway.

Some folks prefer to do any cropping including a DX crop in post processing as it gives you more flexibility in terms of composition if you want to move the crop box around or crop a bit less. For some active subjects like flying birds, in-camera cropping can increase the risk of things like clipping wingtips if you don't frame and pan perfectly where cropping in post gives you a bit of breathing room for those kinds of problems.

In terms of cropping vs a teleconverter, you may get a very similar subject size but there will be differences to things like depth of field and may be differences to amount and look of background blur depending on things like how far away or how cluttered the background is. Generally speaking using a TC instead of a deeper crop is typically better in terms of background rendering but it depends a lot on the specific shot and shooting situation. But either approach can yield very nice images and can increase your main subject size in cases where you can't get closer and are already using your longest lens.
 
Cropping to DX dimensions is the same from a quality standpoint whether you do it in the camera or in post processing (e.g. Photoshop, Lightroom or similar). Some folks prefer to crop in-camera as you see something closer to the final image in the electronic viewfinder of a mirrorless camera and the files are smaller on the memory card and the computer if you know you'll crop to at least DX sizing anyway.

Some folks prefer to do any cropping including a DX crop in post processing as it gives you more flexibility in terms of composition if you want to move the crop box around or crop a bit less. For some active subjects like flying birds, in-camera cropping can increase the risk of things like clipping wingtips if you don't frame and pan perfectly where cropping in post gives you a bit of breathing room for those kinds of problems.

In terms of cropping vs a teleconverter, you may get a very similar subject size but there will be differences to things like depth of field and may be differences to amount and look of background blur depending on things like how far away or how cluttered the background is. Generally speaking using a TC instead of a deeper crop is typically better in terms of background rendering but it depends a lot on the specific shot and shooting situation. But either approach can yield very nice images and can increase your main subject size in cases where you can't get closer and are already using your longest lens.
Thanks so very much for this useful advice.
 
Question: By DX crop do you mean the DX crop in camera? I was wondering if I could just use the DX in camera crop on my Z8 in place of a 1.4 TC on my 100-400 mm lens and get similar results? Thanks - I am just learning about these things.
Yes and no. From a subject size standpoint…DX crop vs TC will be pretty similar. But from a pixels on subject standpoint…the TC wins and more pixels on subject means better sharpness…albeit there could be some loss of IQ due to the TC so ypu don’t ge5 as much improvement as a longer lens for same pixels on subject would be. But given the wider throat, better optical design software and all the other improvements the Z mount has…in most cases the TC doesn’t noticeably degrade the final output image sharpness. It might be noticeable at 1:1…but nobody looks at images at 1:1…they look at them at screen downsampled resolution or on prints…and slight differences in sharpness zoomed in dont make it to the output. There may be other differences in the image with the TC in bokeh or in noise if it forces you to a higher ISO…but NR software is pretty good these days so once again the final output differences are less noticeable than zoomed in. Obviously a longer lens or a prime will generally be better than the zoom…but all things considered you will almost always (at least from my investigations but I only evaluate images at output resolution, no comparing zoomed in due to lack of relevancy) be better off with the TC than going to DX in camera. OTOH…sometimes you just need more reach and I will admit to occasionally using both the TC and DX instead of tossing on the 2x TC. But even using the 2x really depends on needs…yes, it isn’t as sharp as the 1.4x…but I haven’t really compared the 2x to 1.4 and DX because I don’t need to. With both TCs…I have zero hesitancy in the 1.4 use but the 2x gets less use by a factor of 5-10. I’ve still gotten excellent images with it in good light with both my 400/4.5 and 600PF…but on the 10-400 it is really only in a good light, I don’t have the prime, and it’s a shot or subject I really want thing. Now that I have both the zoom and the longer primes…I don’t imagine I will use the TC on the 100-400 unless I have to and will generally try to not use it past 300 or so unless I have to.
 
Little oftop, but about TC too.

From the nikon site:

MTF 400 2.8 FL + TC 1.4 III are little better than MTF 400 2.8 TC with buit-in TC included.
Differences are not huge, but...
Strange, I always think - built-in TC will be better then external TC.
Interestingly, MTF 400 TC are worst, than 400 FL.

Comparisions from the nikon site:

400 TC + internal TC included:
View attachment 75772
400 FL + external TC 1.4 III:
View attachment 75773
Using the MTF system Nikon use, Canon reckoned anything above 0.8 on the left hand side is extremely good.

Canon updated their MTF system apparently to real world testing more than a decade ago. Nikon and Sony seem not too have yet followed this Canon direction.
 
Thanks so very much for this useful advice.
One thing I'll add is that using an in-camera DX crop the view of the subject and the related AF boxes are all larger. So if you have a distant subject and are trying to place an AF box on that subject - or a nearer subject and need precision - the DX crop view may be useful.

One approach I use instead is to program my Fn1 button to zoom to 100% (or optionally 50% or 200%). This lets me zoom in to check focus or identify a bird both before or after the shot. It's a toggle - and you can press the shutter at any time. The image is not cropped and remains full size, but it does let you magnify your view. It's also good to check manual focus.
 
"Where the Nikon Z teleconverters deliver is twofold. First, they clearly beat cropping in terms of resolving fine details on distant subjects – and the 2.0x TC beats the 1.4x TC if you need maximum reach"

Dont tell the "cropping is better crowd".... especially that big haired fella from philthy.
 
"Where the Nikon Z teleconverters deliver is twofold. First, they clearly beat cropping in terms of resolving fine details on distant subjects – and the 2.0x TC beats the 1.4x TC if you need maximum reach"

Dont tell the "cropping is better crowd".... especially that big haired fella from philthy.
I'm not a fan of Fro... but I'm not sure that I disagree with him here.
I think that a teleconverter might produce a technically better photo on a static target when you lock it all down with a tripod, but this may not be the case when you are doing some "live action" photography. First, the extra stop (or two) of light will allow you to shoot at a lower ISO and faster shutter speed, second the DX frame allows for a more precise positioning of the AF box.
The one to two stop difference in noise and/or shutter speed and more precise AF may result in a net gain in image quality.
I have a 1.4x but almost never use it... now, if I could buy the 400 f2.8S w/ internal 1.4x, I'd probably use that all the time.

bruce
 
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My experience (and that of many others based on what I read) is that with SLR's the 1.4x teleconverter worked well but the 2x teleconverter was unacceptably soft. With mirrorless systems (in my usage Nikon Z), both teleconverters are sharp making a 2x of practical value for the first time. Though I have a Z 180-600 on order (and previously owned a Sony 200-600), my current long lens setup is Z 70-200 f2.8 with Z 2x teleconverter. It is outstanding and I see excellent quality in real world use. This recent thread of mine shows that combination and several of these photos are cropped (though the first shot of ducks flying is without teleconverter).
 
I'm not a fan for Fro... but I'm not sure that I disagree with him here.
I think that a teleconverter might produce a technically better photo on a static target when you lock it all down with a tripod, but this may not be the case when you are doing some "live action" photography. First, the extra stop (or two) of light will allow you to shoot at a lower ISO and faster shutter speed, second the DX frame allows for a more precise positioning of the AF box.
The one to two stop difference in noise and/or shutter speed and more precise AF may result in a net gain in image quality.
I have a 1.4x but almost never use it... now, if I could buy the 400 f2.8S w/ internal 1.4x, I'd probably use that all the time.

bruce
If you look at their testing procedure they accounted for the loss of light by increasing ISO..... and they STILL found using TCs to clearly get a sharper image.

ISO 3200 with a 2X resulted in sharper images than a cropped bare lens shot at ISO 800 and this was on a zoom lens.
 
If you look at their testing procedure they accounted for the loss of light by increasing ISO..... and they STILL found using TCs to clearly get a sharper image.

ISO 3200 with a 2X resulted in sharper images than a cropped bare lens shot at ISO 800 and this was on a zoom lens.
You're also going to have a downsizing benefit that reduces effective noise on the TC image. The cropped image effectively has more noise- almost two stops worth. It's important to use a common output size for these comparisons.
 
You're also going to have a downsizing benefit that reduces effective noise on the TC image. The cropped image effectively has more noise- almost two stops worth. It's important to use a common output size for these comparisons.
Another background detail is over the last 3 years or so AI available with several PP packages makes getting 400 ISO noise performance from a 3200 ISO capture relatively straightforward.
Higher ISO options using TC's or an equivalent with cropping are no longer for many anything other than a minor detail.
 
One thing I'll add is that using an in-camera DX crop the view of the subject and the related AF boxes are all larger. So if you have a distant subject and are trying to place an AF box on that subject - or a nearer subject and need precision - the DX crop view may be useful.

One approach I use instead is to program my Fn1 button to zoom to 100% (or optionally 50% or 200%). This lets me zoom in to check focus or identify a bird both before or after the shot. It's a toggle - and you can press the shutter at any time. The image is not cropped and remains full size, but it does let you magnify your view. It's also good to check manual focus.
This is a great idea! I will do it! Yesterday, after reading some replies, I programmed a lens button to switch to DX crop, but I really like your idea here too! Such a great Forum!
 
This is a great idea! I will do it! Yesterday, after reading some replies, I programmed a lens button to switch to DX crop, but I really like your idea here too! Such a great Forum!
I have a button programmed on my Z9 and Z8 to toggle between FX and DX mode. Can be useful. One negative is that it is easy to forget that you have switched to DX mode. There is a warning indicator in the upper right corner of the EVF that flashes. But it is small and very easy to miss. So at times, I have shot in DX when I did not intend to do so.
 
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