Z9: Doubling of Out of Focus Background Objects?

[JamesFarrell]

I have posted this image not for artistic critique but to ask about the out of focus area above the Anna’s Hummingbird. I was just playing around, experimenting with animal and eye detection (works like a charm even in this crazy scenario) focusing late in the afternoon yesterday with strong backlighting - a setting sun shining through an Arizona Cypress tree next to my deck. The hummer was 12 feet away. Look at the branches and needles above the Anna’s Hummingbird. They were about a foot behind the hummer. Of course they’re out of focus (my in-focus on the Anna’s eye depth of field was about a half inch), but it’s like I see double - some kind of ghosting or whatever. Just wondering why this is happening. Note the EXIF of the image. I did have Sport VR on if that matters. Wondering if this has to do with the Z9’s electronic shutter or is something else contributing to this? The quality of the out of focus area is not my issue. Of course there is too little background separation. It’s the strange effect of the doubling of some parts of the image behind the hummer that has me curious. Thanks in advance for your feedback. Jim

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[BLev65]

Jim,
Did you shoot a series of these? Is this the only shot that exhibits this phenomena in the series? I'm actually thinking it is a bokeh things, as it looks as if there may be some re-reflectional in highlights. The hummer is crisp, so this leads me to believe that it has more to do with how the lens is rendering the out of focus backlit needles.

regards my friend,
bruce

 

[aolander]

I would says lens rather than anything to do with the Z9.

 

[DRwyoming]

Thanks in advance for your feedback. Jim

I'd agree it looks like some kind of internal reflection issue brought on by the heavy backlighting. Do you have a UV or other filter on that lens? Was the lens hood in place?

I doubt it's related to the e-shutter on a relatively static image like this, it looks to me like a pure optical effect related to internal lens reflections from the backlit scene.

 

[JamesFarrell]

Jim,
Did you shoot a series of these? Is this the only shot that exhibits this phenomena in the series? I'm actually thinking it is a bokeh things, as it looks as if there may be some re-reflectional in highlights. The hummer is crisp, so this leads me to believe that it has more to do with how the lens is rendering the out of focus backlit needles.

regards my friend,
bruce

Thanks for your response, Bruce. Nice to hear from you. Yes, I shot about 50 shots like this at various shutter speeds, exposure compensation settings and resulting ISOs from about 1800 to 9000 (!). The hummer was sharp (eye detection) for all shots … the Z9 just blows me away even in this drastically harsh example. The ‘ doubled‘ out of focus needles were present in all the shots.

I don’t understand the “re-reflectional in highlights” phrase you cite. Maybe I am making too much of this given the background separation was so little compared to the subject distance. I was just messing around with my toys in the late afternoon Arizona setting sunshine when I noticed the phenomenon I describe. I will say that the out of focus areas in more structured shooting with the 400/4.5 are really nice. So, just trying to learn more about what caused this curious, but hopefully unique, situation. Best Regards, Jim

 

[JamesFarrell]

I'd agree it looks like some kind of internal reflection issue brought on by the heavy backlighting. Do you have a UV or other filter on that lens? Was the lens hood in place?

I doubt it's related to the e-shutter on a relatively static image like this, it looks to me like a pure optical effect related to internal lens reflections from the backlit scene.

Thanks for your response. No filtration of any kind. Lens hood on, always. I totally agree with your diagnosis. You can see some flare in the left part of the image as I was shooting into the sun, albeit sunlight was filtered by the tree’s vegetation. This whole shooting scene was an experiment as I was pushing the Z9 to see how far I could go with animal - eye detection. That was clearly answered by the Z9 which, if it could talk, responded with a “Can Do !!!” I am amazed by its capabilities.

Late Edit: Lesson learned about reflections in certain unusual lighting situations. Thanks all.

 

[soundbyte]

After seeing this effect I remember that I thought I had seen it before and really thought nothing of it.
I checked some shots that are similar in nature to yours and I believe that I found a similar if not identical effect in this shot, this was the first one I found in my search.
Note the similar/identical effect just above the end of the birds tail.
Camera and lens are totally different to yours, other equipment the same, no filters etc, lens hood on.

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[JamesFarrell]

After seeing this effect I remember that I thought I had seen it before and really thought nothing of it.
I checked some shots that are similar in nature to yours and I believe that I found a similar if not identical effect in this shot, this was the first one I found in my search.
Note the similar/identical effect just above the end of the birds tail.
Camera and lens are totally different to yours, other equipment the same, no filters etc, lens hood on.

Thanks for your post (in the interest of conserving screen space, your image was omitted in my response.) Yes, similar effect and in your case there does not seem to be any obvious harsh light. This was a good learning experience in that I knew that shooting into harsh light can have some strange results. Flare and specular highlights I know about, but internal reflections I have not experienced before As I most often do most of my shooting in poor light. Live and learn.