Z9 FW 5.0 Frequency Setting Mode Hz Pre-sets

[JohnDG]

Afternoon All, this is my first post on the BCG Forum (apart from my introduction)

I shoot a lot of concerts and for me the only real downside off my Z9s are “Flckr-banding” in some images due to led/stage lighting.

With now version 5.0 and Nikon introducing four Hz pre-sets as starters is there any sensible method to dealing in the correct Hz setting or is it a case of using live view or inspecting the taken images to dial in a acceptable setting in order to avoid or minimise any form of banding in respect to shutter/shooting speed?

Many thanks in advance

John

 

[JAJohnson]

If you can determine the specs of the lighting used in the venue, you should be able to determine the frequency the lighting.You can enter your settings appropriately from that. If it’s a venue which does concerts on a regular basis there should be a lighting tech who’s employed there. They should have info you need about the lighting.

Otherwise, it’s trial and error until you get it locked in.

If you’re on instagram or twitter, try getting in touch with Todd Owyoung. He’s a professional photographer who shoots concerts and the Tonight Show. He’d be able to give great advice.

 

[JohnDG]

If you can determine the specs of the lighting used in the venue, you should be able to determine the frequency the lighting.You can enter your settings appropriately from that. If it’s a venue which does concerts on a regular basis there should be a lighting tech who’s employed there. They should have info you need about the lighting.

Otherwise, it’s trial and error until you get it locked in.

If you’re on instagram or twitter, try getting in touch with Todd Owyoung. He’s a professional photographer who shoots concerts and the Tonight Show. He’d be able to give great advice.

Many thanks for your detailed explanation regarding my question.
I have on several occasions spoke with the lighting technician and he was now up-to-date regarding the frequency at which his lights worked.
I also follow Todd and use his extensive knowledge base to guide me through various tips but in truth my best experience is via trial and error, reviewing the images on the screen and not always pointing the camera directly at the led lights or just wait until the pass by that is if the swoop from left to right.
Thank you.

 

[dabhand16]

One snag you might find is if you visit a venue that use lights with differing frequencies either with other lights or alternating. Also lighting different sets might make a difference too.

On a different note, I once shot a dress rehearsal for a local theatre group. I checked out the stage lighting before they started and noted that the lights had different gels on them so asked if they could put them on so I could get a white balance.

When the rehearsal started I found that not only were the lights changing from set to set, but also in middle of an act too! It was a nightmare doing the processing as I'm a bit colour blind and had no reference to use.

 

[JohnDG]

Graham, some very valid tips - thank you

What I tend to do which is not always easy in concerts is to keep my speed to twice that of the a/c power (Hz) in that land that I am currently in (Europe) so I when possible keep my shutter speed to 100/s and rely on my onboard camera/lens VR to compensate. I believe the flickering is not so sensitive when I am taking images from a so called static stage presentation.

 

[dabhand16]

Graham, some very valid tips - thank you

What I tend to do which is not always easy in concerts is to keep my speed to twice that of the a/c power (Hz) in that land that I am currently in (Europe) so I when possible keep my shutter speed to 100/s and rely on my onboard camera/lens VR to compensate. I believe the flickering is not so sensitive when I am taking images from a so called static stage presentation.

Sound like a good strategy John.

The stage show I shot was probably not lit not lit by leds, but but there were gels on the lights which with gig photgraphy would not be an issue but even if the actors we wearing make up, it is still nice to get skin tones roughly the colour of skin at least, even with the price of having to put up with purple-ish shadows.

 

[vito]

Hi John. Concert photographer here. I too struggle with the banding issue on my z9. Not on every shoot, but enough that it's an issue. Unfortunately, when you only get the first 3 songs, there really isn't time in the pit to shoot, chimp, dial in the shutter speed, reshoot, chip, ect.. and get the shots you need to get paid. I have a good relationship with the house lighting guys at several venues, and for a drink or an edible can get them to ease up on the red and blue on the first 3 to get some decent light. I've gotten the frequencies for the LED's from them but have yet to find a way to relate that to shutter speed. I like to shoot at 1/500, wide open, and this tends to exacerbate the banding issue, lower shutter speeds will give you less banding but depending on how animated the performers are, the shots will be soft. I'll typically shoot enough of each act to get the 25 shots I need, and some of the banding can be removed in post by masking the background , where banding is worst in my experience. This is honestly the most disappointing thing about owning the z9. I love the fact that with 3D, you can lock on the eye and continue to focus and meter, and composing the shot without having to focus and recompose. Love not having to pause while the buffer does its thing. There's a lot to love about the z9 but the banding is a kick in the groceries.

 

[JohnDG]

Hi John. Concert photographer here. I too struggle with the banding issue on my z9. Not on every shoot, but enough that it's an issue. Unfortunately, when you only get the first 3 songs, there really isn't time in the pit to shoot, chimp, dial in the shutter speed, reshoot, chip, ect.. and get the shots you need to get paid. I have a good relationship with the house lighting guys at several venues, and for a drink or an edible can get them to ease up on the red and blue on the first 3 to get some decent light. I've gotten the frequencies for the LED's from them but have yet to find a way to relate that to shutter speed. I like to shoot at 1/500, wide open, and this tends to exacerbate the banding issue, lower shutter speeds will give you less banding but depending on how animated the performers are, the shots will be soft. I'll typically shoot enough of each act to get the 25 shots I need, and some of the banding can be removed in post by masking the background , where banding is worst in my experience. This is honestly the most disappointing thing about owning the z9. I love the fact that with 3D, you can lock on the eye and continue to focus and meter, and composing the shot without having to focus and recompose. Love not having to pause while the buffer does its thing. There's a lot to love about the z9 but the banding is a kick in the groceries.

Hi Vito,
What you have described I clan totally relate too.
I love my Z9s and nearly always shoot wide open 50/1.2, 85/1.2, with the 70-200 2.8. I really do 100% agree with what you stated and that is to get all the shots needed without chimping as we only have three songs to make it count. I also try as best as I can to observe the lights/position and take my images where I feel I will not get or introduce any banding, if I am lucky enough to be granted access to the entire concert then I can take many more photos and select the perfect captured ones and bring along my 400 2.8 for better close ups. Waiting on Nikon's 35mm 1.2 but getting slightly impatient, might look at other options.

 

[vito]

I've got 2 z9's, one with the 24-70 2.8 and one with the 70-200 2.8. When I'm allowed to shoot from the house after the first 3, it will typically be with the 70-200 and I hardly ever experience banding, which seems weird to me. I've reached out to Todd, he's a Nikon Ambassador, and he has also experienced the banding. He says that he has talked to his Nikon contacts about it. Been searching for a solution for a while. It looks like Sony has this issue too, but it seems they have a way to "live view" where you can see the banding on the back screen and adjust shutter speed until it disappears. Would love to see something like this come from Nikon!

 

[JohnDG]

Vito, once again many thanks for documenting your own experience, it’s good to get feedback from other concert photographers which is really appreciated. I also follow Todd and respect all the work that he does and post. It’s not easy to get this issue perfect in camera as there are indeed so many factors involved and still I feel we are all trying to maximise the limits of our mirrorless cameras, even David Bergmann has a video regarding this issue and he tries to max his shutter speed at 125/s that’s slightly better for you guys living in the states due to 60hz, in Europe we use 50hz. Many thanks, John