TexAg
New member
Have the Nikon 24-120, received as christmas gift, any suggestions on tripod you use in your yak? Have a Torquedo electric motor on the kayak, great to use when needing to get to a location with wind and tide.
Zoom vs Prime for First Lens for Beginner
- Thread starter TexAg
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Zooms tend to be better “walk about” lenses. You choose the focal length based on the conditions and subject.
If I mount a prime, I am generally looking for something specific, especially, if it is the Z800. Of course you can buy a prime and a couple of teleconverters. That would give you three focal lengths - say, 400mm prime, 1.4TC gets you 560mm and a 2.0 TC gets you to 800mm.
If I mount a prime, I am generally looking for something specific, especially, if it is the Z800. Of course you can buy a prime and a couple of teleconverters. That would give you three focal lengths - say, 400mm prime, 1.4TC gets you 560mm and a 2.0 TC gets you to 800mm.
MikeJ
Well-known member
I don't use a tripod, as the Z9 has IBIS. Since this particular state park doesn't allow entry before 6am if you're not camping, I usually find light levels sufficient by the time I hit the water, especially in the summer when sunrise is around 5am where I live. If light is too low, I do use a carbon fiber monopod with the Wimberley MH-100 gimbal head. I believe Steve did a video about this setup. Others might have suggestions for tripods.
MatthewK
Well-known member
Can’t recommend the 180-600 enough. You’ll always end up wanting more reach, and 600mm is a good first place to start your journey.
Lots of good advice here. I'd probably lean towards the 180-600 myself as a recommendation. I think it depends, though, on your targets. With larger animals and frequent travel, for example, the 100-400 would probably be perfect. The Tamron 150-500 is a good option as well as mentioned.
MikeJ
Well-known member
I have to agree with @pnbarne as far as zooms being a great walkaround lens. Not far from me is another state park where some really nice whitetail bucks live. It's off-limits to hunting so the deer are VERY acclimated to hoomans. The first time I was there, not knowing what to expect, I took my 600mm f4G...WAY too much lens. Next time, I took my F-mount 200-500mm (pre-Z days). Many of the photos I took were at the 200mm end!
TexAg
New member
The 180-600 is highly recommended, the only reservation I have is the weight of this lens, not that I have any physical challenges but do incorporate allot of long hikes to get to off the beat places. The 100-400 sounds like a great option, but as you mentioned the 150-500 evnethough weighs more than the 100-400 has that extra reach, not as much as the 180-600 but more than the 100-400.
I don't own the Tamron, so I can't speak to it one way or the other. Nikon does have some pretty potent VR - best around IMO.
TexAg
New member
Thank you.
Another vote for the 180-600 and spend the rest for good insurance, a dry bag and a paddle leash. Plan on the camera going in the water. The mantra for underwater photography is not IF but WHEN. The issue is task loading. I understand that you are proficient with the kayak but using the camera will consume a great deal of mental energy and physical dexterity until you get used to shooting wildlife in a Kayak. If you are in salt water make sure you have enough fresh water to properly flush the camera (after removing the battery).
There are inexpensive bags that have a glass port for the lens end but otherwise encase the camera. They are a pain to use and I have never seen one for a lens as long as an 180-600. If I was in your shoes I would figure out how to make one for the Z-8/189-800. Dicapac is a manufacturer but you will need to modify their product to fit.
Tom
There are inexpensive bags that have a glass port for the lens end but otherwise encase the camera. They are a pain to use and I have never seen one for a lens as long as an 180-600. If I was in your shoes I would figure out how to make one for the Z-8/189-800. Dicapac is a manufacturer but you will need to modify their product to fit.
Tom
Woody Meristem
Well-known member
Zoom all the way! I haven't owned a prime lens (other than macro lenses) since I disposed of my film cameras in the early 2000s. Zooms are so much more versatile than primes and their image quality is so good that most people can't tell the difference from photographs whether they were taken with a zoom or prime.
Hi, I don't have any advice to share that Steve et. al. have not already said. I just wanted to offer a welcome to the forum. Looking forward to seeing your work.
I looked at the Tamron in a shop the other day it is a nice compact size but pretty heavy for what it is.
You might out of curiosity to get an idea of how different lenses feel go into a shop and take a look at the Z 400mm f4.5. That 400 is the epitome of a super compact and well balanced high IQ prime lens. I have that lens and it produces beautiful images and is a joy to work.
One of the things about shooting with long focal length telephoto lenses is that they get more challenging to work with out towards the longer ranges. Lots of things can cause soft images even with the best lenses when you are working long. You might be disappointed with the initial results. Steve has excellent advice on how to get the most out of your lenses and camera when working these long focal lengths.
Steve has some good guides on how to work with long lenses. I have learned to trust Steve's advice. He really knows what he is doing, is honest with his advice and shares generously with the community.
You might out of curiosity to get an idea of how different lenses feel go into a shop and take a look at the Z 400mm f4.5. That 400 is the epitome of a super compact and well balanced high IQ prime lens. I have that lens and it produces beautiful images and is a joy to work.
One of the things about shooting with long focal length telephoto lenses is that they get more challenging to work with out towards the longer ranges. Lots of things can cause soft images even with the best lenses when you are working long. You might be disappointed with the initial results. Steve has excellent advice on how to get the most out of your lenses and camera when working these long focal lengths.
Steve has some good guides on how to work with long lenses. I have learned to trust Steve's advice. He really knows what he is doing, is honest with his advice and shares generously with the community.
TexAg
New member
Thank you and everyone who posted, really appreciate the feedback and looking forward to getting out there and taking photos, will post but probably not near the quality of you all. I anticipate allot of growing pains but not about the results all the time but the journey, its like fishing, eventhough you dont catch any fish being out there and enjoying the outdoors is what it is all about, catching fish is a bonus!
TexAg
New member
Thank you, I have handled the 400mm at a local camera shop, it was great on my Z8 and felt well balanced. And from all the reviews, great lens optically. Original thought before I was on this forum was to purchase the 400mm and later decide on a zoom. Just build my kit around the 400mm, as I would think would be a lens that you would always have use for regardless of your subjects and style with wildlife photography. General recommendation from members, is the opposite, start with zoom and then add prime. Which I agree with all the points supporting starting with a zoom before adding a prime.
400mm is not enough reach for a beginner bird photographer in most cases.
TexAg
New member
Birds or BIF is not my primary interest, mammals would be primary interest as well as mammals in their natural habitat.
abc123brian
Well-known member
I love my 400mm 4.5. It is a really great lens and works well with the 1.4x TC. If the focal length will work for you is difficult to say without understanding more on where you plan to shoot, how close you can get, and size of mammal. I shoot a lot at 400 and 560mm so it works well for me. I also have the 180-600mm and have been really impressed with it. It offers more flexibility and is cheaper but is heavier and bigger. For a first lens, I’d also lean towards the zoom. It gives you the most flexibility and you don’t need to guess at the ideal focal length. Shoot it for 6months or more and then look to see what focal lengths you are using most frequently.
You have to decide what is right for you. Each of us is different and you should trust your own instincts
Before I started on the wildlife route my longest lens was the 70-200mm F2.8. I was going to buy the 180-600 but everything was on back order. I gave up and canceled my order.
My choices were either the 100-400 or the 400mm f4.5. I decided to go with the lens with the best image quality
But I did that because when I first got into photography I had a manual focus camera with a group of prime lenses. I got used to working with primes.
Often I will pick a particular prime because I know what it can accomplish and I match my shooting to the lens.
I now use some zooms because they are convenient, one zoom lens is easier to carry. For the most part zooms in the middle focal length ranges are pretty effective for most purposes. I generally don't expect to crop these mid range shots very much if at all.
We are working with a 47 mp camera. If all you are looking to do is produce an image capable of printing up to about 17x22 almost any lens will do and all decent zooms will be fine.
The problem comes when you need to crop. That is when the better lenses and high megapixel cameras come into their own. You can crop further and get better quality with better lenses.
Before I started on the wildlife route my longest lens was the 70-200mm F2.8. I was going to buy the 180-600 but everything was on back order. I gave up and canceled my order.
My choices were either the 100-400 or the 400mm f4.5. I decided to go with the lens with the best image quality
But I did that because when I first got into photography I had a manual focus camera with a group of prime lenses. I got used to working with primes.
Often I will pick a particular prime because I know what it can accomplish and I match my shooting to the lens.
I now use some zooms because they are convenient, one zoom lens is easier to carry. For the most part zooms in the middle focal length ranges are pretty effective for most purposes. I generally don't expect to crop these mid range shots very much if at all.
We are working with a 47 mp camera. If all you are looking to do is produce an image capable of printing up to about 17x22 almost any lens will do and all decent zooms will be fine.
The problem comes when you need to crop. That is when the better lenses and high megapixel cameras come into their own. You can crop further and get better quality with better lenses.
GG1
Member
Why not start with your basic lens trinty. With a budget of $3000 you could get 2 G2 versions of Tamrons offerings. I have 4 Tamrons and for me work great. They are also warranted for 6 years, As far as prime vs zoom , like some has alredy said zooms have come a long way in IQ. All my lens are zooms. I used to have a 45mm primre but traded it in. I have heard the Nikkor 24-120 is a versatile lens. I would avoid big extremes in focal lengths.
tclune
Well-known member
That's exactly the way my father taught me to shoot many years ago. He'd walk around his subject until he decided what perspective he wanted and then bring out the camera to shoot his shot. A zoom is certainly a natural lens for that kind of shooting (although he used a Crown Graphic, and did his framing with an enlarger in the dark room.) Recently, I've been gravitating toward primes because I tend to frame rather mechanically -- a prime pushes me to re-envision the framing a bit more than is natural to me.
I think it might work both ways, or it only means something if the shooter is paying attention to the background. I guess the point I was trying to make since the op said it was a beginner question was that by itself focal length does not change perspective.
It's our natural tendency to fill the frame if we can. So with one prime focal length we just get to that distance if possible, most people won't go further away on purpose or change to another prime to get closer. on the other hand with a zoom we usually crank it to max focal length if we can anyway.
So maybe it's all good.
Happened across this timely article:
www.dpreview.com
What you need to know before buying your first lens
In this guide we'll lead you step-by-step through the process of understanding the different kinds of lenses available for both DSLRs and mirrorless cameras, and choosing the right one for your needs.
www.dpreview.com
Thank you for sharing.Happened across this timely article:
What you need to know before buying your first lens
In this guide we'll lead you step-by-step through the process of understanding the different kinds of lenses available for both DSLRs and mirrorless cameras, and choosing the right one for your needs.
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One thing I may have overlooked others mentioning but if I were to do it all over again from the start I would start by renting lenses. Way back I thought it was a waste of money to just rent but I think it would have saved me a lot because I would have learned what lenses I like and what kind of subjects I enjoy and having that knowledge would help me narrow down the possibilities a great deal.