Sell 850 and get a Z7ii?

[jhallettbc]

This may seem like a dumb move but let me explain why I’m thinking of it. I have the D6 which I love and always take it out instead of the 850 unless I will need to be cropping with bird and wildlife shots. I don’t mind the weight and feel in my hands is perfect. I bought the 850 used and have never really bonded with it. I sold my 780 to get it in order to have the more pixels of the 850 but I actually preferred the 780. I thought AF on it was better than the 850.


I have not been drawn to the mirrorless until I read recently something here about the Z7 or Z7ii. That got me thinking that perhaps that would be a good move. However I am hesitant because I’ve read enough complaints about the AF. I want a camera that will focus easily on static objects or slowly moving ones. For anything with action I will always use the D6. I am planning a few birding trips but have never been drawn to getting BIF’s. Getting a good shot of perched ones is enough! I am wondering if the eye detection makes up for any shortcomings compared to the 850.


The advantages I see theoretically of the Z7ii is eye detection, lighter when that is important, being able to take street shots on the articulated screen, and a completely silent mode. I’ve tried shooting from live view on the 850 and it’s pretty useless. The 780 was much better because I think it has the same system as the Z6.


As always I will benefit from the vast experience on this site.

Thanks.

 

[Replytoken]

The other advantage of a mirrorless body that you did not mention is that you can use focus peaking and magnification when manually focusing on a static subject. I find this to be quite useful if you really want to dial in the focus to a very specific part of your subject. I am not sure if that is helpful or not to how you shoot, but I find it to be quite helpful when I am using older, manual focus glass or when I am shooting macro or close-up work.

Good luck,

--Ken

 

[dabhand16]

Another mirrorless advantage it the WYSIWYG in the viewfinder. - and a histogram too. I loved my D850 but found I was using my Fuji cameras more because they offered me more of what I wanted from a camera than a dSLR could. I got fed up waiting for the Z8 and after researching the Z7ii and Z6ii I bought a Z6ii.

From your post I'd say that a Z7ii would suit you fine. The AF issues people moan about are where fast moving birds or animals are involved, not for what you shoot.

One thing I would say is that the first outing I had with my Z6ii was with my AF-S 24-70 f2.8 + FTZ. The pictures and lens functionality were great, but the handling was awful. The rig was very nose heavy. The lens weighs in at about 900gms. I think that if I'd have lived with it I would have got used to it, but as I said before - I had been using my Fujis more than the D850 so this maybe exaggerated the balance issue. However, I did want to get some native Z mount lenses so sold the f2.8 and bought a Z 24-70 f4 S. This weighs only 400 gms and has transformed the handling. Do I miss the f2.8? Yes, a bit, but I'm happy with the f4 lens. Strangely, using my 70-200 F2.8 E FL does not feel as bad. Probably as it would be nose heavy on the D850, or maybe as you hold the lens further away from the camera. No plans to sell the 70-200.

This would not apply if you were on a tripod but if you walk and hand hold with shorter zoom lenses it is worth checking out. I stress that if I had knucked down I probably would have got used to it, but the difference was really noticeable on that first use.

 

[BlackRockArt]

This may seem like a dumb move but let me explain why I’m thinking of it. I have the D6 which I love and always take it out instead of the 850 unless I will need to be cropping with bird and wildlife shots. I don’t mind the weight and feel in my hands is perfect. I bought the 850 used and have never really bonded with it. I sold my 780 to get it in order to have the more pixels of the 850 but I actually preferred the 780. I thought AF on it was better than the 850.


I have not been drawn to the mirrorless until I read recently something here about the Z7 or Z7ii. That got me thinking that perhaps that would be a good move. However I am hesitant because I’ve read enough complaints about the AF. I want a camera that will focus easily on static objects or slowly moving ones. For anything with action I will always use the D6. I am planning a few birding trips but have never been drawn to getting BIF’s. Getting a good shot of perched ones is enough! I am wondering if the eye detection makes up for any shortcomings compared to the 850.


The advantages I see theoretically of the Z7ii is eye detection, lighter when that is important, being able to take street shots on the articulated screen, and a completely silent mode. I’ve tried shooting from live view on the 850 and it’s pretty useless. The 780 was much better because I think it has the same system as the Z6.


As always I will benefit from the vast experience on this site.

Thanks.

If I were you, I would sell the D850 and get a Nikon Z8 A.S.A.P.

Skip Z7ii, it's just not worth it.

Oliver

 

[JAJohnson]

This may seem like a dumb move but let me explain why I’m thinking of it. I have the D6 which I love and always take it out instead of the 850 unless I will need to be cropping with bird and wildlife shots. I don’t mind the weight and feel in my hands is perfect. I bought the 850 used and have never really bonded with it. I sold my 780 to get it in order to have the more pixels of the 850 but I actually preferred the 780. I thought AF on it was better than the 850.


I have not been drawn to the mirrorless until I read recently something here about the Z7 or Z7ii. That got me thinking that perhaps that would be a good move. However I am hesitant because I’ve read enough complaints about the AF. I want a camera that will focus easily on static objects or slowly moving ones. For anything with action I will always use the D6. I am planning a few birding trips but have never been drawn to getting BIF’s. Getting a good shot of perched ones is enough! I am wondering if the eye detection makes up for any shortcomings compared to the 850.


The advantages I see theoretically of the Z7ii is eye detection, lighter when that is important, being able to take street shots on the articulated screen, and a completely silent mode. I’ve tried shooting from live view on the 850 and it’s pretty useless. The 780 was much better because I think it has the same system as the Z6.


As always I will benefit from the vast experience on this site

Before investing in a Z7II, I’d suggest renting a Z8 in order to be certain it won’t meet your needs. Regardless of how you shoot birds and other wildlife I think you’ll find the AF to be superior to the Z7II.

When considering purchasing a new camera I’ve found that investing in better tech than I think I’ll need allows me to grow into the use of that tech in order to produce better photos more easily and produce more of them, too.

Just my 2¢. No matter what you decide, I hope you enjoy using your new camera!

 

[mdirvin]

If I were you I 'd go with a Z8 or Z9, I had a Z7, and found it totally inadequate. I saw the "promise", but the processor just could not handle the AF requirements. I used it for landscape, macro, anything that didn't include moving subjects..Then the Z7ii came out with the boost in processor power. I thought "thats the one". Unfortunately it wasn't much better for moving subjects, and it was also regulated to "anything that didn't move". Now the Z9 is a different story.

 

[StevieJSmall]

I like where your head is at with the Z 7II, however, I wouldn’t be thinking it can replicate the D850.

The AF has been lambasted, in some instances, rightfully so, but it actually works very well depending on your expectations and putting the work in to understand what modes will give you the best chance of success.

The Z 8, and Z 9 by extension, will provide a greater likelihood of getting things in focus in terms of action, whether slow or fast, due to the upgrade on the Exspeed chip, but don’t think they’re required to get what you’re looking for.

I’d almost say if you’re looking at the Z 7II, I’d save the money and buy a Z 7 since it’s essentially nearly identical in all aspects and will get you what you are looking for with a Z 7II.

Last comment, if you really want a D850 replacement, then the Z 8 is where you want to focus your purchasing power, full stop.

 

[Doug A.]

I have both a D850 and a Z7II and shoot very similar to what you describe that you do. I have absolutely no issues with the Z7II and its AF in that regard. On the rare chance I want to shoot some fast moving action (typically sports, not BIF), I use my D850. For everything else, its the Z7II. The eye AF and the reduced size and weight of the Z7II are wonderful. For you, the D6 and Z7II sounds like an excellent combo. The Z8 would probably cover both cameras unless you have some older AF-D lenses you still use. I still have and regularly use the Nikon 180mm AF-D, so that is the only reason I'm still holding on to the D850.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

Agree with others. Go Z8 or 9.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

BTW here is a suggestion that comes with a caveat.
Buy @SteveS e-book on the Z8 and Z9 and see what it can do and how many customization options you have. Don't get lost in the details but focus at a higher level at the possibilities - besides the possibility that you will spend more $.

 

[John Woodworth]

I have photographed musicians and musical events with the Z7ii since about 2019. I switched from DSLR's to mirrorless for silent shooting and for the flexibility in the focusing system (focus points spanning most of the frame). I switched from a D810 and would say that the Z7ii did everything better. At first I was using my f-mount 24-70 f2.8 E lens and it worked perfectly with the FTZ adapter.

Compared to recent top-tier bodies, the weak point for the Z7ii remains its focus system. It is slow and, particularly in low contrast, low light the eye detection can be unreliable. In such situations, shoot conservatively, using single-point auto focus. This means moving the focus point prior to the shot, and that can mean that, in fast moving situations, you'll sometimes miss the unexpected opportunities. Practice makes perfect and one soon develops the instincts of a fighter pilot, playing the joystick like a pro gamer.

The focus system of Z cameras is more precise and accurate than DSLR's.

Still, the Z7ii has a slow viewfinder, and the electronic shutter suffers from "rolling shutter". It is definitely not a camera for fast action. But you know that.

Moving to mirrorless gives real-time exposure evaluation through the viewfinder with histogram and blinkies (the latter during playback), live view on the rear screen, IBIS and lots of other features as mentioned previously. Relative to my D810, I would not hesitate to recommend the exchange in favor of the Z7ii.

I have no experience with the D850, but based on extensive reading believe that the D850 is probably the better camera (with the negatives of a DSLR). When I moved to mirrorless, the choice was between the D850 and the Z7ii. The Z7ii won for me because of the silent shutter which is so important when shooting musical performances or BTS in video productions.

I have traveled extensively with the Z7ii (through the Middle East, across the USA on a motorcycle), preferring it to the Z9 depending on the subject matter, and used it for events many evenings per week. It has never let me down.

I also have the Z6ii and in my experience it focuses better in difficult contrast and low-light situations. The files can also be quicker and easier to process for low light. Z7ii files are also good in low light but take more fussing in post. Of course, files shot with the Z7ii will be more "croppable" so there's that. Your D6 is already a low-light beast so the Z7ii would add capability for you in that respect.

Let me also say that, if you purchased (or stole) a Z8 or Z9 (I have both), it would surpass the capabilities of your present stable in almost every way.

 

[John Navitsky]

i would wait for the z7iii or consider the z8

 

[jhallettbc]

Thanks for all the thought provoking responses so far. I should have said that the Z8 and 9 are out because of the cost. I never buy brand new cameras. So I can be content with a Z7 now and wait until used Z8 prices are reasonable. John Woodworth and Doug A. give me the most confidence to consider the Z7. The Z6 is out because of the lower pixel count. I've realized I need to rent a Z7 for a day and try the AF for myself.

 

[Bennvdm]

Animal eye detect on z6/7 ii is limited to cats & dogs afaik. I do not think bird eye af or other animals that are not canine or big cat related families work well. It works best for people and much better when shooting f1.4 or f1.8 glass wide open.

I would keep the D850 till you decide to try some of the new Z lenses. The z lenses is a big motivation to move to Z mount.

 

[MrFotoFool]

If you are happy with the size and weight of a D6 (and D850), I think you will find the Z7ii unuseable. I have large hands and the only way I could use it is with the optional battery pack (which of course you can get). I was a D850 user (and Sony with grip for their 200-600, which I recently sold). I did a three day rental of Z7ii with grip and still didn't like the ergonomics. However the real problem is the startup delay when you press the shutter halfway to wake the camera up from sleep mode. Others here have said they don't notice it but I am telling you it is a very real problem. I watched a coyote run across the wash in front of me in frustration because the camera would not wake up quickly enough. My Sony never had that problem and I have now gone all in on Z8 which does not have that problem. If you never need to catch an animal quickly before it takes off, then the Z7ii may work for you, but if you do I think you will soon regret getting it. For other applications such as landscape of course the camera will work fine.

The other issue coming from SLR is the viewfinder. Yes there is an advantage to seeing real time exposure settings, but some mirrorless have rather poor and jarring electronic viewfinders. I tried a Canon R5 briefly on two different occasions and it was hideous. I had the Sony A7IV for a year and a half and it was better, but not ideal (good in low light but poor in bright sunlight). Nikon, based on my limited experience, has the best electronic viewfinders of the big three. The Z7ii viewfinder was surprisingly pleasant and my Z8 viewfinder is equally good. The Z9 is reportedly astounding, but I realize that is not in your budget (nor mine).

 

[John Woodworth]

Thanks for all the thought provoking responses so far. I should have said that the Z8 and 9 are out because of the cost. I never buy brand new cameras. So I can be content with a Z7 now and wait until used Z8 prices are reasonable. John Woodworth and Doug A. give me the most confidence to consider the Z7. The Z6 is out because of the lower pixel count. I've realized I need to rent a Z7 for a day try the AF for myself.

My experience is mainly with the Z7ii, although I did rent a Z7 early on to shoot a BTS Video production. Needed the silent shutter.

The Z7ii has two processors and the firmware has been updated beyond the original Z7. This makes the Z7ii's subject detection more useful, particularly in good light. I think it's worth the extra coin, particularly used.

 

[Charles Loy]

Simply stated: I'd sit tight and get along with what ya have until you can grab a Z8.

 

[EricBowles]

The Z7ii is a very good camera. If you are thinking about simply trying out mirrorless, it will serv e a good role and can easily replace a D850 that is not getting a lot of use. The Z8 would be a worthy replacement to the D6, but is probably somewhat duplicative unless you are intending to drop the D6. I think for action it would be hard to use both the D6 and Z8 side by side - they are too different.

I used the Z8 and Z7ii side by side this past weekend photographing the PGA Tour Championship. In terms of fact action, the Z8 is better and pre-release capture has some unique advantages. AF is more capable with the Z8 - as you would expect with each iteration or upgrade. But for anything other than fastest action, the Z7ii is a solid choice. It's great for portraits, landscapes, macro, and events. If you go the Z7ii route, I'd get a used camera for about $1800 - less than half the price of the Z8. If you get the Z8, you could get rid of your D6 and keep the D850.

Just be aware the Z8 and Z9 have a significant learning curve to fully customize the camera and to take advantage of the newer technology and AF options. It's not a camera you pick up and just use settings from someone else - it depends on what and how you shoot, so you will need to evolve with the camera and your learning curve.

 

[Mal Paso]

The Z7ii was down to $2000 refurbished from Nikon during their last sale. An excellent value and you won't lose much money reselling it when the Z8 starts to be discounted. Used Z7iis are selling for more than that now.

The Z7ii is a big improvement over the Z7 and if you don't shoot long bursts or high end movies you can use SD cards which the Z7 doesn't accept. CF Express cards were over $300 when I bought my Z7ii.

 

[jhallettbc]

It's interesting the divergent opinions on the Z7 or Z7ii. Clearly this means something. I don't think anyone is saying don't buy a Z8 or 9, which also mean something! It really does come down to me trying one out. From my experience whether we like a camera or not is very personal. I'm an outlier in not being overly fond of the 850.
I can't ever imagine parting with my D6. I have customized it the way I like and for my style, I can't see what I'd gain with a Z9. Other than more pixels and that's why I'm thinking of the Z7ii which is in my price range.

 

[Tim Karels]

If you get a Z8 or Z9, you will never use your D6 again. If you were to keep the D6, then I think picking up a Z7ii is a great way to transition to mirrorless without spending a lot. I had the D850 and Z7 and would always use the D850 for anything with action since its AF was superior to that of the Z7. The Z7 was great for static subjects or if I wanted to travel really light. I agree with one of the other pots above, that you could save a lot of money going to a Z7i rather than Z7ii. There's not that much difference between the two since the slew of firmware updates to the Z7i. After a while, if you still like mirrorless, then you may decide to upgrade to something better such as Z8 or a mythical Z7iii.

 

[calcal]

I have the D850 and gave my Z7ii to my husband when I got my Z8. The Z7ii is great for static and slower action. I expect to occasionally 'borrow' it back from my husband especially for macro shots. I love the size and weight of Z7ii. The Z8 is much better for faster action and it is more customizable than the Z7/ii, those are the relative advantages with a bit of a penalty on size and weight. I've never had a D6 but I expect you could replace both your D850 and D6 with a Z8 and have everything you had in a smaller package minus a backup.

 

[Rassie]

I used the Z6II for a couple of years for all kinds of wildlife work, then I traded that in on a Z8 when they were launched.
You mention doing static or slow moving bird shots. I specifically made the image below a couple days ago with the Z8 to illustrate the kind of image I was always having a very hard time getting with the Z6II. When the bird is in the foliage with all manner of branches, twigs and leaves close around the bird, the Z6II would too often focus on anything but the bird. The eye detection of the Z8 enables the camera to grab onto the bird's eye among all those distracting elements and makes getting an image like this much easier.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

I know the Z8 is expensive, but I'm in two minds whether it would make sense to replace a D850 with a Z7II. There are obvious advantages to the mirrorless system, most of which have been mentioned by others here. I would perhaps be tempted to try and save up for a Z8 and then trade both the D6 and D850 for it. The Z8 is that good.

 

[jhallettbc]

I used the Z6II for a couple of years for all kinds of wildlife work, then I traded that in on a Z8 when they were launched.
You mention doing static or slow moving bird shots. I specifically made the image below a couple days ago with the Z8 to illustrate the kind of image I was always having a very hard time getting with the Z6II. When the bird is in the foliage with all manner of branches, twigs and leaves close around the bird, the Z6II would too often focus on anything but the bird. The eye detection of the Z8 enables the camera to grab onto the bird's eye among all those distracting elements and makes getting an image like this much easier.

View attachment 68540

I know the Z8 is expensive, but I'm in two minds whether it would make sense to replace a D850 with a Z7II. There are obvious advantages to the mirrorless system, most of which have been mentioned by others here. I would perhaps be tempted to try and save up for a Z8 and then trade both the D6 and D850 for it. The Z8 is that good.

Did you ever have trouble getting a good focus even using the singe point AF? I have often found that with the 850, I think in cases where I couldn't hand hold the camera steady enough. So it might not be a negative for me. I would not count on the eye detection for birds from what I read. I certainly hear that I'd love the AF on the D8. I could buy it now if I sold my D6 and 850 but I'm not ready to part with the D6. If I did then I'd only have one camera which is a distinct drawback when travelling and I don't want to be changing lenses. I'm going to Sri Lanka in October and will want one camera with my 24-120 for people, landscapes and street scenes.

 

[Lance B]

I came from the D850 and D500 and primarily shoot birds and landscapes. When the Z7 came out I purchased it as I specifically wanted a small lightweight travel camera. I was an OVF adherent as I had seen some Sony EVF's and wasn't impressed at all so, prior to purchase, I was a little concerned about the EVF of the Z7, but the Z7's EVF was actually excellent and really enjoyed using it. Once I had the Z7, I loved using it so much, I used it 95+% of the time, even for most of my bird photos which are generally perched birds. For the rare times I need AF tracking ability, I used my D850 or D500. The trouble is, I rarely used the D850 and D500 after getting the Z7, and then to the Z7II when it came out. I now have the Z9 and Z8 and sold the Z7II. The Z8 is only about 100gms heavier than the Z7II when I have the SmallRig plate on the Z7II and thus a small difference. Much of the weight saving for travel is in the lens as the 14-24, f2.8 and 24-70 f2.8 are 630gms lighter than my F mount versions.

There is no doubt that the D850 and now the Z8 and Z9 are better focusing than the Z7/Z7II but I never found the AF of the Z7/Z7II to be an issue for getting most of my bird shots. See my Z7/Z7II gallery:

Nikon Z7 and Z7II by Lance B

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