Sell 850 and get a Z7ii?

[Griffym]

I am gradually moving across to mirrorless. I got the Z6ii. It came with a 24-70F4. In my view it is not a good choice for birding. Few things are. My D500 has been good. What I really found was how good the new Z-mount lenses are. I have kept my longer F-mount lenses (300 &500).
For birding I blew the budget and bought a Z9. It was out of my price range - and then I realised I had never owned a flagship camera because they were too limiting. The Z9 is amazing. I have been buying a few Z lenses and eventually all my F mount short lenses (200 or less) will be gone as will my DSLRs.
In my view mirrorless full frame is on the one hand too expensive and at the same time well worth it. Too expensive because it means you will find yourself replacing most of your stuff! Well worth it because it opens up goals and opportunities you never thought you could reach for. I quickly realised that it challenged lots of my assumptions. I have shots I have taken at 1/30,000th of a second for example but it is the lack of vibration on the Z9 shutter that surprised me most. I am starting to explore night time photography, often without a tripod and it turns out I have been able to hand hold shots at 1/15th of a second.
I think you should buy the Z7 and start to explore what it offers.

 

[Rassie]

Did you ever have trouble getting a good focus even using the singe point AF? I have often found that with the 850, I think in cases where I couldn't hand hold the camera steady enough. So it might not be a negative for me. I would not count on the eye detection for birds from what I read. I certainly hear that I'd love the AF on the D8. I could buy it now if I sold my D6 and 850 but I'm not ready to part with the D6. If I did then I'd only have one camera which is a distinct drawback when travelling and I don't want to be changing lenses. I'm going to Sri Lanka in October and will want one camera with my 24-120 for people, landscapes and street scenes.

One of the differences between the Z6 and the cameras with higher MP sensors like Z7 and Z8 is the fact that the single focus point on the Z6 is larger than on the Z7/Z8. In such cases where not much of the bird's head is unobscured, when using AF-C, the relatively large focus point covers too large an area and easily latches on to the wrong element. The only way to use a smaller focus point was with AF-S and that was too onerous when the bird did not stay absolutely still or I did not manage to hold the camera still. The Z7 with its smaller single AF-C focus point may well do better than the Z6 in that scenario, and the Z8 will do better than the Z7 again. The eye detection of the Z8 means the focus stays on the eye even if one does not hold the canera steady and the bird moves around inside the frame.

As for having only one body when travelling, I hear you. I also always took two bodies on my wildlife safari trips. I had to get rid of all of them to afford the Z8 so I only now have the one camera. I do have access to my wife’s Z50 should my Z8 fail, though. She is not as fanatical as I am about photography and would be ok with me borrowing her camera should mine fail on a trip.

There’s lots to like about the Z7II. I really enjoyed using the Z6II for its small size and light weight. A wonderful travel camera and excellent for general work. Good luck with your decision. The benefits of the EVF on the mirrorless cameras cannot be overstated.

 

[IngeKJ]

If you get a Z8 or Z9, you will never use your D6 again. If you were to keep the D6, then I think picking up a Z7ii is a great way to transition to mirrorless without spending a lot. I had the D850 and Z7 and would always use the D850 for anything with action since its AF was superior to that of the Z7. The Z7 was great for static subjects or if I wanted to travel really light. I agree with one of the other pots above, that you could save a lot of money going to a Z7i rather than Z7ii. There's not that much difference between the two since the slew of firmware updates to the Z7i. After a while, if you still like mirrorless, then you may decide to upgrade to something better such as Z8 or a mythical Z7iii.

The problem is that the amount of possible buyers of a D6 is so small, you might be looking at 30-40% of retail price. So OP is probably stuck with it. Personally I think buying a Z7ii now is madness compared to a Z8-9. Just wait a little now and there will be good used deals.

 

[Anjin San]

As others said…the Z7II is decent but isn’t high FPS, doesn’t have the AF the higher priced models have, and is generally less good than them for action/BIF. That said…I still got keepers with it using both F and Z lenses…but the Z8 is worlds better…and now that I have a Z8 and a Z9 my Z7II is for sale…so if you’re still interested in that model DM me and we can talk. It’s a good but not outstanding body and is smaller and lighter than the Z8…but when I need a small rig I just borrow my wife’s Z50 2 lens kit.

 

[Ado Wolf]

If you found that the D780 hat better AF focus than D850, then I would skip the Z7 (current sales price can be very tempting). Eye AF works well with humans (that are not in full action) and maybe dogs and cats that are sleeping on the sofa. But for moving subjects it is unfortunately not reliable. As many have suggested, the Z8 would serve you better in this sense.

For all other purposes> Landscape, Travel, Portrait, Night and Macro photography (maybe I missed some) the Z7 is more than capable, in fact does a great job, and comes highly recommended. It's lighterand compacter, WYSIWYG, silent shooting and offers access to improved Z lenses (sharper than F glas).

I recently made the jump from D850 to Z8 for wildlife photos, but I still shoot the D850 for other photography genre (because of the sentimental bond I have with the D850 / my first full frame plus the X-Factor which I cannot explain).

Good luck taking a decision. With Z8 you won't go wrong..

 

[Doug A.]

(because of the sentimental bond I have with the D850 / my first full frame plus the X-Factor which I cannot explain).

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this about the D850. Love using my Z7II, but the D850 is just special.

 

[MJR]

Find a way to get a Z9. You will never look back or regret it. If you do not need the grip then a Z8 will be an acceptable alternative. As mentioned there is a steep learning curve with all the customizations but worth sticking with it. The Z9 was like the D3 in its impact in upping your game.

 

[jhallettbc]

I came from the D850 and D500 and primarily shoot birds and landscapes. When the Z7 came out I purchased it as I specifically wanted a small lightweight travel camera. I was an OVF adherent as I had seen some Sony EVF's and wasn't impressed at all so, prior to purchase, I was a little concerned about the EVF of the Z7, but the Z7's EVF was actually excellent and really enjoyed using it. Once I had the Z7, I loved using it so much, I used it 95+% of the time, even for most of my bird photos which are generally perched birds. For the rare times I need AF tracking ability, I used my D850 or D500. The trouble is, I rarely used the D850 and D500 after getting the Z7, and then to the Z7II when it came out. I now have the Z9 and Z8 and sold the Z7II. The Z8 is only about 100gms heavier than the Z7II when I have the SmallRig plate on the Z7II and thus a small difference. Much of the weight saving for travel is in the lens as the 14-24, f2.8 and 24-70 f2.8 are 630gms lighter than my F mount versions.

There is no doubt that the D850 and now the Z8 and Z9 are better focusing than the Z7/Z7II but I never found the AF of the Z7/Z7II to be an issue for getting most of my bird shots. See my Z7/Z7II gallery:

Nikon Z7 and Z7II by Lance B

pbase.com

Thanks Lance. I'm sold after seeing your photos. I'll be using the 500 PF with it as well. I'm curious whether you were using the eye detection in the bird photos or single point AF.

 

[jhallettbc]

Thanks again for all your thoughts and wisdom and I considered what everyone said. I have taken the easiest route to get into mirrorless and bought a used Z7ii at a very good price which included the FTZ plus an extra battery. I will test it out before I decide to sell my D850. The 'winner' will be the one I take to Sri Lanka along with my D6. If for some reason, I decide the Z7ii isn't for me, I can probably sell it for a small profit. As I said above, if money was no object, I'd buy a new Z8 and keep my D6. From my limited testing with the seller, I'm pretty sure this step up to mirrorless will not leave me thinking I wish I had borrowed money to buy a Z8. One step at a time.

 

[jhallettbc]

I just discovered Steve's video on the Z6 and Z7 ii models and it confirmed I made the right choice for me as a mirrorless starter.

 

[Lance B]

Thanks Lance. I'm sold after seeing your photos. I'll be using the 500 PF with it as well. I'm curious whether you were using the eye detection in the bird photos or single point AF.

Thank you for your kind comment on my photos. I mostly used the single point AF like I did on a DSLR. To be quite honest, "old timer's disease" or more commonly known and Alsheimer's. - I simply can't remember all that well the exact AF modes I used but rarely Eye AF as that was a general Eye AF not specific animal/bird Eye AF from memory.

As Steve points out in his video you linked to, the AF accuracy, once it gets AF, is always spot on, no AF fine tuning required and no little AF anomalies that can sometimes occur with a DSLR. If you are going to use a 500PF, it can be used very successfully with the 1.4x TCIII for an excellent and very sharp 700 f8. Some of my shots using the 500PF + 1.4x TCIII

500PF 1.4x or 800PF?

I currently alternate between the 100-400z and the 500 PF on my z9. I am using the 500pf with the 1.4 teleconverter, 90% of the time. I also use the 1.4z on the 100-400 on occasion. After months of use, l still prefer the images produced by the 500pf, when compared to the 100-400, even with the...

bcgforums.com

 

[Rodamu]

The Z8 is the mirrorless equivalent of the D850. Wait a while for the Z8 shakedown and bug fixes before buying one. If you have the D6, you can still use the great variety of F lenses. Z mount lenses mostly have some advantages over the F mount lenses but there is not yet the full variety available. The Z mount lenses are the future so going mirrorless is wise.
On the other hand, the Z7ii is an excellent camera and cheaper than the Z8.

 

[Chaz Harrison]

I too had a D850 and used it for all of my photography. Later I bought a Z7 and its 24-70 kit lens for its lighter weight, intending only to use it for walking. I found that I was using it more and more and the D850 less. With the release of the Z8 I read the reviews and the notion that it is a worthy upgrade to the two cameras I had with a higher frame rate and much improved AF. I decided to trade both the D850 & the Z7 which took the sting out of the price of the Z8. I kept the best of the F mount glass and bought an FTZ - the 500PF works so much better on the Z8 - no contest.
I reluctantly parted with the D850, BUT as I get into the extraordinary Z8 I don't regret the change. For BIF shots it is outstanding and my results are much improved. The only potential problem is battery life and that is easily solved with a few spares in the bag.

HTH, Chaz

Incidentally an EN-EL15 which I bought in 2006 as a spare for a D80 has just died. Seventeen years of use (I used it as a "spare spare" in all my cameras) - is good service.

 

[BillNaiman]

I never had a D850, so I can't comment on that body. I have had a D810, D7100, and later a Z6ii, Z7ii, Z8, and Z9. I sold the Z6ii to help fund the Z7ii, thus my day to day shooting involves the Z7ii, Z8, Z9.
I agree with the recommendations to rent a Z7ii and perhaps include the 24-120 F4 S lens, or at least the 24-70 F4 S kit lens. It will take some time to learn about the way a mirrorless camera and Z series lenses are designed to work and to become comfortable with the associated differences in settings from a DSLR. Evaluating how a Z7ii will meet your needs will benefit from the learning curve. Without the investment of some time, the trial experience may be frustrating.

Assuming you are keeping your D6 for action and sports, and that you plan to use the Z7ii for cityscapes, landscapes, hiking, waterfalls, macro, people, and other relatively static scenes, you will likely find the imaging from the Z7ii and one of the general purpose lenses I mentioned, to be extremely good.


FWIW, my experience with the Z9 and later with the Z8, the improved focusing and subject recognition features, plus pre-release capture and auto capture, have enabled me to get shots action shots (sports, BIF, modern dance, etc), I was not able to get before.

 

[Mal Paso]

I've been serious about photography for 60 years and would never have less than 2 cameras. Right now it's a D810 and a Z7ii with a FTZ. I will probably get a Z8 when it has matured a bit but there is no rush as none of it's new features are critical for what I do. I think there is a sweet spot just behind the bleeding edge where you pay a bit less for the best technology.

 

[jhallettbc]

Just an update. I've been trying out the Z7ii for 2 days and really do not like the electronic viewfinder. It was especially inferior to an optical viewfinder when I was taking some portraits at a dinner party. However I am not ruling out that I can't adjust to it. Just can't imagine ever preferring over an optical one. As well, even though I was using the AF for people, it did not focus on the eyes which were slightly out of focus. At this point I'm going to assume operator error and real the manual before I try it again tomorrow night. I have another dinner party and I will take photos with the Z7ii and 850, using my 85 f1.8 lens and compare the experience and results. Will do another update.

 

[Anjin San]

Just an update. I've been trying out the Z7ii for 2 days and really do not like the electronic viewfinder. It was especially inferior to an optical viewfinder when I was taking some portraits at a dinner party. However I am not ruling out that I can't adjust to it. Just can't imagine ever preferring over an optical one. As well, even though I was using the AF for people, it did not focus on the eyes which were slightly out of focus. At this point I'm going to assume operator error and real the manual before I try it again tomorrow night. I have another dinner party and I will take photos with the Z7ii and 850, using my 85 f1.8 lens and compare the experience and results. Will do another update.

It does take a wee bit of getting used to it…but once you do the extra capabilities it provides are really nice…and it’s essentially still Nikon’s first gen of EVF…later ones like the Z8 and Z9 one are better than optical most of us find. The real issue is that the DSLR lines are essentially orphaned tech…they’ll never get the improvements in AF or subject recognition or FPS or silent shutter that the Z bodies have. Doesn’t mean that a DSLR isn’t a good choice if it does what you want/need and you’re ok with not getting the other Z benefits and the better overall Z lens lineup. When I got my Z7II to replace the D7500…I never noticed that the EVF was any worse than the optical one and the many new capabilities it provides were pretty immediately obvious…the getting used to it above is learning to use the various displayed info and the fact that it shows the actual exposure in the viewfinder.

 

[jhallettbc]

It does take a wee bit of getting used to it…but once you do the extra capabilities it provides are really nice…and it’s essentially still Nikon’s first gen of EVF…later ones like the Z8 and Z9 one are better than optical most of us find. The real issue is that the DSLR lines are essentially orphaned tech…they’ll never get the improvements in AF or subject recognition or FPS or silent shutter that the Z bodies have. Doesn’t mean that a DSLR isn’t a good choice if it does what you want/need and you’re ok with not getting the other Z benefits and the better overall Z lens lineup. When I got my Z7II to replace the D7500…I never noticed that the EVF was any worse than the optical one and the many new capabilities it provides were pretty immediately obvious…the getting used to it above is learning to use the various displayed info and the fact that it shows the actual exposure in the viewfinder.

A number of people say that the live view with actual exposure is a big advantage. In my limited experience, the exposure I saw in the viewfinder didn't exactly translate to what I saw in LR but I'm on a learning curve.

 

[Jack McEwan]

Consider trading the D6 and D850 towards a Z8. Alternatively, wait for Nikon to update the Z7ii with improvements to its AF if you shoot a lot of wildlife or action. I own a D850 and a Z9. While the D850 is a great camera, the Z9 is in another league.

 

[John Woodworth]

Just an update. I've been trying out the Z7ii for 2 days and really do not like the electronic viewfinder. It was especially inferior to an optical viewfinder when I was taking some portraits at a dinner party. However I am not ruling out that I can't adjust to it. Just can't imagine ever preferring over an optical one. As well, even though I was using the AF for people, it did not focus on the eyes which were slightly out of focus. At this point I'm going to assume operator error and real the manual before I try it again tomorrow night. I have another dinner party and I will take photos with the Z7ii and 850, using my 85 f1.8 lens and compare the experience and results. Will do another update.

If shooting in lowish light/contrast, eye detect may not work well. Eyes shadowed or small in the frame. Maybe use Wide-L, Wide-S or Spot. And/or use a smaller f-stop to increase depth of focus.

Make sure you're in Continuous AF.

Try not to underexpose. Focusing is sensitive to export.

Take some test shots prior to going live.

 

[jhallettbc]

If shooting in lowish light/contrast, eye detect may not work well. Eyes shadowed or small in the frame. Maybe use Wide-L, Wide-S or Spot. And/or use a smaller f-stop to increase depth of focus.

Make sure you're in Continuous AF.

Try not to underexpose. Focusing is sensitive to export.

Take some test shots prior to going live.

Thanks for the advice. Some of the photos were in lower light. I guess I'm used to the D6 which is amazing in almost any light.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I sold my D850 after my D6 when I went to the Z9.

Viewfinder on Z7II does not have a fast enough refresh rate to not have a burst on a BIF give you a "slide show" and also what you see in the Z7II viewfinder has already happened. The Z9 and from what I have read the Z8 does not have that problem and I prefer all of the advantages of of the Z9 view finder over my D6 or D850. The D850 resolution is a stern task master but it was my favorite for birds over my D6 except in very low light.

Still the Z7II viewfinder has the advantage over your optical viewfinders on the D6 and D850 of seeing a live histogram and also what you see for exposure is what you get if it is not set for ease of viewing but for seeing what your camera settings are doing to the image. That allows you to change your settings on the fly as you look through the viewfinder.

My wife uses a Z7II and Z50 and she seldom photographs BIF and so they work great for her.

I like my Z9 well enough to buy another Z9 for my second camera body.

To me the Z9 is a D500, D850 and D6 all in one body.

I bought my first Z9 well into the firmware update cycle so I did not experience some of the early AF issues.

I am a bird ID photographer 90 % of the time and I prefer the feel and size of the Z9 over the specs I read on the Z8 also like the two CF Express B card slots, built in GPS and it a bit more weight I expect balances better with my Z800 PF.

So I have no hands on experience with the Z8 but have a bit with Z6II that my wife traded in for Z7II and the Z7II is physically smaller than what I prefer.

Nikon continues to have some good Z9 refurb sales periodically. If subject recognition (some call it eye tracking) is a reason you want to move to mirrorless then the Z7II is not on par with the Z9 and from what I have read about it's smaller sibling the Z8 which are significantly better.

 

[O]

This may seem like a dumb move but let me explain why I’m thinking of it. I have the D6 which I love and always take it out instead of the 850 unless I will need to be cropping with bird and wildlife shots. I don’t mind the weight and feel in my hands is perfect. I bought the 850 used and have never really bonded with it. I sold my 780 to get it in order to have the more pixels of the 850 but I actually preferred the 780. I thought AF on it was better than the 850.


I have not been drawn to the mirrorless until I read recently something here about the Z7 or Z7ii. That got me thinking that perhaps that would be a good move. However I am hesitant because I’ve read enough complaints about the AF. I want a camera that will focus easily on static objects or slowly moving ones. For anything with action I will always use the D6. I am planning a few birding trips but have never been drawn to getting BIF’s. Getting a good shot of perched ones is enough! I am wondering if the eye detection makes up for any shortcomings compared to the 850.


The advantages I see theoretically of the Z7ii is eye detection, lighter when that is important, being able to take street shots on the articulated screen, and a completely silent mode. I’ve tried shooting from live view on the 850 and it’s pretty useless. The 780 was much better because I think it has the same system as the Z6.


As always I will benefit from the vast experience on this site.

Thanks.

Short answer, get a Z8 just make certain its a good one.
The only real benefit of going mirror less is the newer glass and if your prepared to invest.
If you have good skill sets then any camera will do.
I mean I love and prefer the D6 period for challenging situations and the DSLR reliability, and I have a z9 sitting on the shelf,
I mean we are allowed to be different lol.
There is new Nikon camera coming that may suite you possibly that is better than any Z7 Z7II, but as usual waiting, fixing, recalls etc may be the scene again as usual.

Only an opinion

 

[DavidT]

I would not. If you are rocking the D6 and happy then the z7 of any flavor won’t impress you. The only cameras in the Z line that are an upgrade to your D6 for wildlife is the Z8 or Z9. But unless you are changing glass you’re stuck with an adapter. The D850 in my opinion has better af than a Z7 series camera.

 

[JohnKwas]

This may seem like a dumb move but let me explain why I’m thinking of it. I have the D6 which I love and always take it out instead of the 850 unless I will need to be cropping with bird and wildlife shots. I don’t mind the weight and feel in my hands is perfect. I bought the 850 used and have never really bonded with it. I sold my 780 to get it in order to have the more pixels of the 850 but I actually preferred the 780. I thought AF on it was better than the 850.


I have not been drawn to the mirrorless until I read recently something here about the Z7 or Z7ii. That got me thinking that perhaps that would be a good move. However I am hesitant because I’ve read enough complaints about the AF. I want a camera that will focus easily on static objects or slowly moving ones. For anything with action I will always use the D6. I am planning a few birding trips but have never been drawn to getting BIF’s. Getting a good shot of perched ones is enough! I am wondering if the eye detection makes up for any shortcomings compared to the 850.


The advantages I see theoretically of the Z7ii is eye detection, lighter when that is important, being able to take street shots on the articulated screen, and a completely silent mode. I’ve tried shooting from live view on the 850 and it’s pretty useless. The 780 was much better because I think it has the same system as the Z6.


As always I will benefit from the vast experience on this site.

Thanks.

I made a huge mistake buying the Z7 II. I shoot a lot of race cars and the AF system isn't capable of taking an acceptable keeper rate when panning. I realize you're saying you don't shoot fast action shots but I'm disappointed in the camera in general. It's clear mirrorless is the future but in my opinion Nikon wasn't ready to bring the Z7 and Z7 II to market. If you can pull it off financially go with the Z8 if you're making the move to mirrorless.