I concur, not visible in time for the Olympics means Nikon is in a deep hole. Nikon has replaced having the Z9 at the Olympics with rumors of mystical, unannounced appearances around the world - a very suspect "showing"
Does the Z9 specs meet your expections
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Frankly, the Olympics are not as big a deal as they used to be, and these Olympics will well be a hot mess because of the Covid threat and associated restrictions.
Of course it would be better if the Z9 were "visible" at the Olympics (whatever that actually means), but the camera will be ready when it will be ready. The quality of the finished product is way, way more important than whether or not it was debuted at the Olympics. If the camera is a winner at the level that the D850 was when it appeared in 2017 (and this wasn't all THAT long ago), people will soon forget when and how it was first used.
Of course it would be better if the Z9 were "visible" at the Olympics (whatever that actually means), but the camera will be ready when it will be ready. The quality of the finished product is way, way more important than whether or not it was debuted at the Olympics. If the camera is a winner at the level that the D850 was when it appeared in 2017 (and this wasn't all THAT long ago), people will soon forget when and how it was first used.
Good point - still a little disappointing. Plus having it appear un-announced in various locations has the appearance of a "photoshopped" sighting.
The Nikon Z9 camera is scheduled to be tested by multiple photographers in August - Nikon Rumors
The Nikon Z9 camera will be tested by several different photographers in August. Expect to see surfing photos and videos from Mexico and more… This timeline matches with the expected/rumored release in November>December. Once the Z9 is sent out for testing, we will get another wave of leaks and...
nikonrumors.com
I have an interest in the Z9. I have not yet purchased a Z series camera. At this point my D5 suits me well. I looked at the D6 and decided to keep shooting my D5. I will probably wait for someone to need a Z9 and desire to sell their Z7ii at a reasonable price. I will also wait for Steve's analysis of the next Nikon mirror less as I did when the D6 came out. At this point I can wait.
I think we’ve seen a lot of hand wringing about the Z9, how it compares to the A1 and whatever Canon does…but really I believe it is all a tempest in a teapot…particularly for those that make no money from our images.
Yes…it appears that today the A1 is ‘better‘ but who knows what will happen when the Z9 arrives. There’s also the D3 moment possibility …at least I think that’s the right model…to consider.
The real truth is that practically nobody on this forum is being seriously limited by whatever they have now…even my wife’s Z50 is far superior in technically to my Canon F1 I had back in college…it is our skills that are lacking.
I admit…the A1 (and presumably the Z9) features are intriguing…but the Z9 will be in very short supply though at least mid 2023 IMO and the body will be $6K to $7K…and then you need the lenses to make that investment worthwhile…and spending $20K or $30K won’t really make my of us better shooters….we might get a few more keepers but if you get 250 more portfolio quality keepers a year with it…and the Z9 and A1 will be antiques by 2026 o4 so…that’s another 1,500 to 2,000 keepers for your $20K investment…and I have to wonder if it is really worth it given the no income status of most of us.
if I had Tim Cook money…yeah, I would buy one…and I could actually afford to spend that much…but in the end is it worth it?
Add in the heavier weight the Z9 will have, the weight of those really good lenses and the associated tripod…and the l8miting factor of skills we all have…not to mention the loss of muscle memory if one changes brands…and I think we are all really unlikely to see a serious conversion to the Z9 or A1 in significant numbers…I’m just being a realist.
I would also love to have a $200K sports car and my wife would like a 30 foot boat and a house in the mountains as well as our home in FL…but those are fantasies too.
What I would actually be able to take advantage of is a Z7II firmware that brings some of those Z9 features to something mere mortals can both Ford Nd is causally available…or maybe a same ballpark price Z8 with the super duper sensor…because there’s just no bang for the back to spend $20K+…at least for me and I’m guessing really for most of us.
Yes…it appears that today the A1 is ‘better‘ but who knows what will happen when the Z9 arrives. There’s also the D3 moment possibility …at least I think that’s the right model…to consider.
The real truth is that practically nobody on this forum is being seriously limited by whatever they have now…even my wife’s Z50 is far superior in technically to my Canon F1 I had back in college…it is our skills that are lacking.
I admit…the A1 (and presumably the Z9) features are intriguing…but the Z9 will be in very short supply though at least mid 2023 IMO and the body will be $6K to $7K…and then you need the lenses to make that investment worthwhile…and spending $20K or $30K won’t really make my of us better shooters….we might get a few more keepers but if you get 250 more portfolio quality keepers a year with it…and the Z9 and A1 will be antiques by 2026 o4 so…that’s another 1,500 to 2,000 keepers for your $20K investment…and I have to wonder if it is really worth it given the no income status of most of us.
if I had Tim Cook money…yeah, I would buy one…and I could actually afford to spend that much…but in the end is it worth it?
Add in the heavier weight the Z9 will have, the weight of those really good lenses and the associated tripod…and the l8miting factor of skills we all have…not to mention the loss of muscle memory if one changes brands…and I think we are all really unlikely to see a serious conversion to the Z9 or A1 in significant numbers…I’m just being a realist.
I would also love to have a $200K sports car and my wife would like a 30 foot boat and a house in the mountains as well as our home in FL…but those are fantasies too.
What I would actually be able to take advantage of is a Z7II firmware that brings some of those Z9 features to something mere mortals can both Ford Nd is causally available…or maybe a same ballpark price Z8 with the super duper sensor…because there’s just no bang for the back to spend $20K+…at least for me and I’m guessing really for most of us.
I’m not being seriously limited anymore. I bought an a1 -
Maljo
Well-known member
The advantage of being last is you can see what the competitors have done and exceed their efforts. Let's hope Nikon gets it right.
D
Deleted member 115
Guest
Well hopefully they are reverse engineering an Alpha one as I type this.....lol
D
Deleted member 115
Guest
It's all relative.
I am sure there are a lot of people (especially here) that would enjoy having animal eye autofocus that actually works with a high resolution super fast frame rate much more than having that $6500 dollars.
I know when I have more time on my hands I will be getting serious about upgrading regardless of price or brand.
Not how it works. That’s also assuming the others aren’t working to beat themselves. It’s a non stop race. Currently Nikon is in last place. They might pass but will likely get passed again. The truth is we don’t have to buy each new camera. Invest in glass and bodies second. The problem right now is camera body technology is moving from DSLR being king to now mirrorless. This requires one to rebuild a system if they feel they want or need the newer tech. It’s no different then moving from film to digital. Nikon kept their F Mount but canon didn’t. Personally I think Nikon is targeting the a9II which would be a major step forward from the current Z bodies but would not come close to matching an a1. It’s likely the a9III is coming by the time you can get a Z9. If you are willing to buy a different brand then this all matters. If you’re not then you’ll be happy with anything Nikon makes. That’s not right nor wrong. Each brand will take their path in mirrorless and while they all will likely be competitive they won’t be a feature for feature match. So buy what best fills your needs.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Latest snippet on NR
nikonrumors.com
Nikon Z9: 45MP and 30 fps? - Nikon Rumors
From the very beginning, I have been getting conflicting information on the sensor size of the upcoming Nikon Z9 professional mirrorless camera. Nikon only told us that it will be a “newly developed high-resolution stacked FX sensor”. The rumor was that three different sensors were tested...
nikonrumors.com
JP Onstwedder
Well-known member
Thern
Well-known member
The Nikon Z9 is rumored to be announced in November/December - Nikon Rumors
Just a quick update: I received information from one of my good sources that the Nikon Z9 is rumored/expected to be announced in November/December timeframe. Here is what we know so far about the Z9: The officially announced Nikon Z9 details are: Newly developed FX-format stacked CMOS sensor New...
Personally if the camera meets these specs I'll order as soon available. Hopefully the wait will not be too long
To be honest I couldn’t care less.
I left the Nikon camp after allmost 50 yrs which would NEVER EVER been happening IF Nikon would have delivered.
I bought the Z7 and I was very happy with it for all kinds of photography but wildlife and Bif.
I could live with the lesser performance of the Zeds regarding fast moving subjects because I owned the D5/D6.
Someday I tried the 70-200, 180-400 and the 800 with the FTZ and I realized I would have to sell them anyway for their crippled performance with that adapter when I would stay with Nikon and buy their yet_to_come HP Zed.
On a sidenote I still can’t understand why Nikon manufactured such a horrible adapter, imo they made a very bad decision there.
This widened my choices to ‘like being a starting WL photog……..’
Staying with Nikon SURE was my first choice, but like everybody knows they’re way behind.
Canon was the other choice with the R5, a vast offering of lenses which do in fact work adapted like they are not adapted…
Yes that IS possible Nikon! And prolly THE worst decision ever made with the greatest consequences regarding Nikonians abandoning the brand!
If they would have managed to manufacture a non-crippling FTZ adapter (or THE topdog mirrorless) they would have done a far better job keeping their existing clientele.
They should have provided us with the possibillity of a smooth in_our_own_pace transition into mirrorless.
They however made it a ‘Buy a new system’ choice…
A bad idea if you’re lagging far behind.
Offcourse people shooting everything else but fast moving targets won’t have to make such decision (if they even think they have to), the Zeds ( first and second gen) are very very nice camera’s offering everything and sometimes even more than their contestants! (That is especially true when using S-lenses)
In short the Z9 should have been released as a (worthy) competitor of the A9II and R5 preferrably before the release of those cameras.
THEN it would have been interesting to me…
Thern
Well-known member
Like allways well said Bruce.
We managed to get such shots with full manual filmcamera’s and lenses back in the days too BUT current tech helps us to do that easier nowadays.
I see technology like a (very) nice ‘have_too’ enabling one to concentrate more on the artistic aspect of photography.
Good thing? Imo yes! As long as I stay in control not the camera.
Knowing you’re at that pond a lot of time, reading this is your third ‘keeper’ of this very behaviour over the years illustrates how important it is for a WL photog to be observant and patient, knowing the environment, specific animal behaviour aso.
Their’s no camera able to substitute for this, it’s allways been and will be the photog.
Indeed - right on the money - the current FTZ performance is a showstopper for me. Whether deliberately crippled or just a terribly flawed design ,the end result for those photographing fast action means new glass is needed. For me to buy a Nikon mirrorless camera better adapter performance with F mount lenses is required. Asking me to discard my 500mm f4 lens to buy a new 600mm f4 "Z" lens to photograph BIF and other high speed action is enough for me to say goodbye Nikon, hello SONY or hello Canon. So September will tell the tale, I hope Nikon corrects this problem. I will use a friend's Z6II with this forthcoming firmware to see how the 500 f4 G lens works.
Thanks Thern for your kind comments and your observations.
I think I am both like and unlike many wildlife photographers that frequent a forum like this or FM. I take my nature photography quite seriously, as it is the one non-spousal passion in my life. I think about it when I work, when I wake, and before I sleep. I am preoccupied with learning techniques to make my images better, and constantly think of ways to differentiate my images from others. Like many on these forums, I am a bit of a gear-head too. I like to learn about new technology, enjoy finding the sharpest optics to match my life budget, and am excited when my system introduces something new and useful to me.
I, on the other hand, can be a bit like a loyal dog. Because I am an educator who lacks the resources to change systems and take a heavy financial hit, I have embraced the cameras I own and take the time to make them work for me. Rather than focus on what they can't do, I leverage their strengths to meet my end goals. As such, I now place a premium on familiarity and my capacity to work the system blind... in the dark, in the cold, and in a hurry. Because intrinsic knowledge and mechanical memory are my "super-power," I have become increasingly patient with Nikon's slower rollout.
cheers,
bruce
fcotterill
Well-known member
I never experienced a single obvious real-world problem where the FTZ lost a wildlife photo on my Z7. This has been in shooting a range of F Nikkors, including some of Nikon's best - 70-200 f2.8E FL, 300 f4E PF, 400 f2.8E FL, 500 f5.6E PF, often with a TC in case of the 3 faster lenses.
Among the well-known excellent features of a Zed camera, the only one I really am missing is Silent-Shooting via EVF, but IME this need rarely overlaps with situations shooting action, when a DSLR excels. So until Nikon adds its matured Z MILC with AF and haptics matching a D5 or D850, I am content to wait. When I pay to round up my wildlife system with a Zed, its versatility must match my pair of D850 and D5. So, each camera must be versatile to cope with more challenging subjects. This means D5 spec AF engine and the customizable controls.
This is beyond and besides "routine/less challenging" situations, when a Z6 or Z7 works very well with a FTZ. So only my primary limit is muscle memory - speeds of finger-hit-to--each-button - switching between at least 4 AF modes instantly (almost). The D5's Recall Shooting Functions is another great feature (much improved in the D6 but unaffordable).... so hopefully Nikon will see the obvious to promote a D6 level Recall Shooting Functions in more of its cameras.
Edit: I'd meant to cite this essay with respect to huge costs of accumulated lenses for most use: https://bythom.com/newsviews/the-tyranny-of-lenses.html
Among the well-known excellent features of a Zed camera, the only one I really am missing is Silent-Shooting via EVF, but IME this need rarely overlaps with situations shooting action, when a DSLR excels. So until Nikon adds its matured Z MILC with AF and haptics matching a D5 or D850, I am content to wait. When I pay to round up my wildlife system with a Zed, its versatility must match my pair of D850 and D5. So, each camera must be versatile to cope with more challenging subjects. This means D5 spec AF engine and the customizable controls.
This is beyond and besides "routine/less challenging" situations, when a Z6 or Z7 works very well with a FTZ. So only my primary limit is muscle memory - speeds of finger-hit-to--each-button - switching between at least 4 AF modes instantly (almost). The D5's Recall Shooting Functions is another great feature (much improved in the D6 but unaffordable).... so hopefully Nikon will see the obvious to promote a D6 level Recall Shooting Functions in more of its cameras.
Edit: I'd meant to cite this essay with respect to huge costs of accumulated lenses for most use: https://bythom.com/newsviews/the-tyranny-of-lenses.html
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Maljo
Well-known member
If the new Z9 rumors hold up, we Nikon Z shooters should be very happy.
Thern
Well-known member
Exactly what kept me from switching for a long time Bruce!
It takes much time to get accustomed to the different ‘identity’ (UI, logics, ergonomics aso) of another brand, but as a matter of fact this learning proces is less demanding and time consuming than I expected it to be.
Musclememory is another story I still try to ruin the R5 when changing lenses LOL.
I am hoping that the Z9 will have a focus motor in the body for the AF lens without a focus motor.
ChrisM
Well-known member
Enlighten me please
Why are so many cursing the FTZ adapter, as if a different adapter would magically make your 500f5.6 focus like it were mounted on a Canon R5 or Sony A1?
I don't know what an adapter is supposed to do beyond passing a signal through if you expect this, but I don't think such a magical adapter exists...
Why are so many cursing the FTZ adapter, as if a different adapter would magically make your 500f5.6 focus like it were mounted on a Canon R5 or Sony A1?
I don't know what an adapter is supposed to do beyond passing a signal through if you expect this, but I don't think such a magical adapter exists...
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D
Deleted member 115
Guest
R5 is nice no doubt but maybe wait for R3 by then Sony will have released the Alpha Supreme 1+ while Nikon is in rumor control....lol
ruley74
Well-known member
Imagine getting 200-500 focus speed from your 600 F/4E when mounted via a FTZ on a Z camera.... (possibly exaggerated a bit, but you get the point) that's what happens essentially. You get a different response in AF speed performance vs mounted to a DSLR. The Canon system does not do this, using the EF to RF adapter is like using a native mount lens, AF speed doesn't change between DSLR & MILC bodies.
Thern
Well-known member
The FTZ adapter does slow down performance, maybe not (or less) with shorter focal lengths but it definitily did slowdown the 180-400 and 800mm.
I’m shooting the R5 nowadays with some native lenses but allso with the 400 F/4 DO adapted.
The Canon adapter is just a ring which adapts the EF lens to the RF mount without any penalty regarding performance.
When you’re using the cheaper than a FTZ adapter with the control ring you allso get even more functionality.
/edit
Ruley74 was a bit faster LOL
I think Nikon made a big mistake with their FTZ in that they tried to make one adapter to work with as many lenses as possible. I think the FTZ is fine as a "universal" adapter, but they probably should have made an FETZ (adapter for E lenses) and an FDTZ (adapter for screw-drive) lenses. I have a feeling that they could have increased the performance in their E lenses because they do not require a mechanical link to move the aperture blades. In this way, Canon had a huge advantage over Nikon. The EOS system has always had electronic controlled diaphragm. In contrast, Nikon tried to maintain backwards compatibility and this, once successful model, has now handicapped their capacity to optimize their F-mount performance with the Z-bodies.
bruce