Disclosing Wildlife Locations On a Public Forum -Your Thoughts

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birdied

birdied

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For me, some of the best things about wildlife photography are spending time with nature, the wild animals and when we become active on an online forum, we become part of that community as well.

I think it is fair to say, that most of us share a passion and love for photography and our subjects, the ones we love to photography and possibly try to protect.

On other forums , I have seen requests for locations and see some post the locations as part of the post. ( I am not referring to the well know locations for subjects, but rather the ones that someone has to tell you about to find )

Over the years, many have helped me and I am so very grateful for that help. I feel the need to pass on what I can to those who want to know. l like to pass on information and hopefully help another photographer. In an ideal world , this is how I feel it should be . Truth be told , this is the real world and an online world at that , so maybe my best intentions are not the best idea.

I have been wondering about this disclosure of locations on a public forum where we have no idea who receives the information or what they will do with it.

I have read several incidents of animals becoming stressed and having to move to lesser productive and more dangerous places due to the pressures put on them. I have read of hunters using some of the bird sites that list species seen as road maps to targets.

I am fairly certain that most times, no harm comes to animals with information that is passed on regarding location. But what about the times you read about that it did ?

I know some will feel that if something is legal it should be acceptable. I don't necessarily feel that way, morality and ethics are a part that need to be considered in my opinion.


Not all photographers follow ethics when getting a shot. For those who are new to photography or just unaware there are several places you can search to read about what is considered ethical in wildlife photography. Here are just a few:

www.photoblog.com

Wildlife Photography Ethics That Makes You a Responsible Photographer

Aiming for popularity and likes, we've forgotten how to be ethical. In this article, we discuss wildlife photography ethics
www.photoblog.com www.photoblog.com

www.nationalgeographic.com

How to photograph wildlife ethically

Putting the well-being of animals first should be every photographer’s goal. National Geographic photographers share tips on how they do it.
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com


www.picturecorrect.com

The Darker Side of Wildlife Photography: Understanding Ethical Practices

With the advent of high-tech cameras and editing software that just about anyone can get to grips with, we’ve seen a transformation in wildlife photography. A transformation that many say is for the better. But as with any change, there are problems. Editing software now means that it’s possible...
www.picturecorrect.com www.picturecorrect.com

My thought is a simple one - Any potential harm to the animal should be considered first and foremost and is much more important than a possible offense taken by anyone you choose not to share the information.

I know some will differ on this subject . Each is entitled to their own thoughts , ethics and views.

I hope some of you will share your thoughts and experiences as I think we can all learn from each other.

Birdie
 
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I personally am against sharing information on Forums, to minimize exposure of Animals to "danger" (be it overstress or worse).
I do however share locations with people I know and trust to have the same values I do, on a personal basis (WhatsApp or in person on a joint hike).
This way, those who "are worthy" of it, get the chance to experience these wonderful destinations without introducing more danger to wildlife.
 
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I never share nor will I ever share locations on a forum or other social media.

The problem with the concept to share info with those you think you can trust is a simple one.
There’s allways at least one which happens to be not trustworthy.
Sounds bitter and it is, but I’ve seen that happen more than once.
It’s a bit like telling a secret to your best friend who passes that info to his best friend and so on.....
Before you know it that secret is a public secret reaching ‘a best friend’ who wouldn’t qualify to be your best friend at all.

In the Netherlands they have a site Waarneming.nl where people can pass info about sightings of rare species.
Resulting in literrally hundreds of photogs jumping in their cars to go to that location and shoot that species

a pic tells more than a thousand words...
(Shot within half an hour after the first sighting):oops:


OR


OR


OR

 
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I never share nor will I ever share locations on a forum or other social media.

The problem with the concept to share info with those you think you can trust is a simple one.
There’s always at least one which happens to be not trustworthy.
Sounds bitter and it is, but I’ve seen that happen more than once.
It’s a bit like telling a secret to your best friend who passes that info to his best friend and so on.....
Before you know it that secret is a public secret reaching ‘a best friend’ who wouldn’t qualify to be your best friend at all.


👏👏👏 Took the words right out of my mouth.
 
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Like the previous members who already replied to this post, I don't share my locations online. I think it's too dangerous. You never know who'll go there and what they'll do to get "THE" shot.

From time to time, I do it with good friends I trust.

Each time I post a great shot, I've more questions about "Where did you take that shot?" than that's a great shot. Most often it's people who fallow my work and for most of them just put a "like" from time to time. But when they see the possibility of having a great location... It's like they remember I exist... If you know what I mean ;)
So that's one thing I don't like.

Then, you never know how ethic they'll be.
Years ago I was joining groups for a photography session. You can't imagine how people are disrespectful regarding the environment, the subject, can be a butterfly a mammal, a bird...
I saw people lying on wild Orchids just to shoot the one in the good light... playing with a butterfly to place it where they wanted...
I was really disgusted by this mentality of "I'll do anything to get the shot".
Since then, I've stopped sharing to everyone.

Laurent.
 
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Thern said:
In the Netherlands they have a site Waarneming.nl where people can pass info about sightings of rare species.
Resulting in literrally hundreds of photogs jumping in their cars to go to that location and shoot that species

a pic tells more than a thousand words...
(Shot within half an hour after the first sighting):oops:
Click to expand...

Wow, that must have been some "celebrity" animal, looks like the London press pack😮
 
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Graham Clark said:
Wow, that must have been some "celebrity" animal, looks like the London press pack😮
Click to expand...

Lol Graham.
I don’t know the English name so will give you the Latin name
Surnia Ulula

I certainly can understand ‘the fuzz’ this bird is very rare in Western Europe. (It was the fourth official sighting since 1900 in the Netherlands)

/edit
It’s a EurAsian Northern Hawk Owl (not the same like the North American species)
 
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I refuse to give any specific location info on social media. I have a list of responsible people I will share info with privately and another list of "oh hell no" people. I've seen first hand what can result. A few winters ago there was a snowy owl irruption and word got out about a specific location. Within days there were more cars with out of state plates than locals and the photographers were obnoxious to the point they had photos taken of them harrassing the owls which were forwarded to the State Conservation Police (license plates were included!) Another instance a rather infamous local photographer set up a lawn chair under a Great Horned Owl nest and sat there for many hours every day to the point the owls left the area.
I certainly appreciate tips from friends but have never shared any info when asked not to. There is one particular spot where osprey dive that I was told of (in reality I had found it on my own the year before!) but I was also asked not to share the location with anyone. The location can only accomodate one or 2 photographers at a time so a large crowd would only lead to problems.
 
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Thern said:
Untill now only civil members here, so don’t worry.
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That's the main reason I really like this forum. I do hope it stays that way. It's an enjoyable way to escape some of the nastiness that is so prevalent in the world today. On the Facebook group my wife and I manage we have an iron clad no politics and no flaming rule. I think we all need diversions where we can spend some time without all the nasty stuff. I really like this forum for that reason.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
That's the main reason I really like this forum. I do hope it stays that way. It's an enjoyable way to escape some of the nastiness that is so prevalent in the world today. On the Facebook group my wife and I manage we have an iron clad no politics and no flaming rule. I think we all need diversions where we can spend some time without all the nasty stuff. I really like this forum for that reason.
Click to expand...

Okay, now shut up!





LOL, sorry couldn’t resist!:devilish::ROFLMAO:
 
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I agree with all of the above. I'm not overly concerned about telling someone I shot something in a popular, well known location (i.e. Yellowstone, smokies, etc), but specific locations are a no-go in my book as well. In fact, my D6 has GPS and I keep that disabled as well (although it can be removed from the metadata too). I've seen the scenario Robert links to play out time and again when word gets out and it always upsets me. It has to be incredibly stressful for the animal. Plus, it feels like we're taking a unique or special animal and turning it into some kind of cheap side show.
 
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Never, never, never!!!! Years ago I took a wildlife-oriented group on a hike to a remote area during which I showed them a rare orchid in bud. When I went back a few days later to photograph the flower there was naught but a hole in the ground. Months later one of the people on that hike mentioned that she had one of those orchids in her garden. I learned my lesson and have never again disclosed the location of anything.
 
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Perfectly agree !!!

If you don't have the chance to know the people personally - and well - I would not share this kind of information even it it would be "analogue", like it was mentioned before with hijacking an orchid.

Meeting people here or elsewhere in the digital world, then meeting face to face and getting to know each other well enough that both sides feel confident about sharing this kind of sensitive information is often the only chance to get to a place where you can see anmials and/or plants that you are particularly interested in. So I would consider this slow and cautious way as safe as you can get it ... I love to get granted this kind of opportunity, I really highly appreciate it if it happens to me and I usually try everything to prove myself being worth to receive this level of trust from others.

Especially in countries with a dense population like in Germany and the corresponding space restrictions for mother nature you have to be careful about it, because the lazy attractions hunters are the most dangerous party in he game and we have a lot of them here. Unfortunately idioty and thoughtlessness is an international - if not to say pandemic - problem ;). With this topic I remember @Steve saying, that sometime the main reasons for camouflage is not the animals but other humans :D.
 
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Want to know where to go to find specific birds anywhere? Go to www.ebird.org. Bird watchers constantly keep the site updated with what they see, where and when. So to some extent that cat is out of the bag. I myself use the site from time to time to see where I would be most likely to find a certain bird. All the most popular birding spots, probably world-wide are covered at ebird.org. There are areas here in my neck of the woods where photographers line up shoulder to shoulder at certain times of the year. The birds in these areas are so used to humans they literally seem to ignore us and go about their business.

If, on the other hand, I happen to spot something interesting or unique in an area that's not already known or frequented by photographers I would be very hesitant to share that location. The animal or bird may not be used to humans and may very well get stressed out when too many people converge there. I have such a spot about 20 minutes from my home. There is literally only one spot where one can park legally without having to walk quite a distance to get there so I keep that to myself. I've visited there about 6 times in the last couple of months. Great spot for fall photographs as well as waterbirds and red-tail hawks. Not once have I seen other photographers there.
 
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I could not resist commenting on this thread, primarily to say how impressed I am with the ethical behavior, kindness, and concerns demonstrated by all of the previous posters. It is what makes this forum special, and it gives me hope for humanity. Many years ago, in my ignorance, I used to think it a kind and honorable thing to share a favorite hunting spot, photography location, a good place to take my dogs for a romp, or even just a quiet place in the forest with friends or acquaintances who might ask. I soon learned the hard way that far too many of those people were not kind and honorable, and that they were totally lacking in respect for the qualities that made those places special. So, no mas. I think most members of this forum, all of whom obviously enjoy the outdoors, would agree that the joy of discovering that "special place" is one of the main reasons we endure rain, snow, sleet, bitter cold, brutal heat, long, tiring and often disappointing hours, and burn large quantities of shoe leather to find them. Yeah, I'm getting older and more grouchy by the minute, but I believe those that are too lazy to put in the effort don't deserve to benefit from the hard work and dedication of those who do. I personally find "social media" to be a huge oxymoron.

To the posters above, you are good people.
 
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In a similar vein, when I came to Kenya and experienced my first safari, I was, naively perhaps, somewhat shocked by the behaviour of visitors in trying to get close to the animals, particularly big cats. Seeing 20 cars fighting to spot a pressured and undoubtedly stressed leopard that trying to get away from the crowd was an unpleasant experience. Having people in bright colours stand on car bonnets and roofs to get a view of a sighting such as a migration crossing, parking vehicles on the animals approach and exit routes, throw objects at sleeping animals to wake then up, throw food to attract their attention and even wandering out of the safari vehicles have all happened in some locations, Fortunately rangers, Drivers and guides do clamp down and it’s that refreshing three tour companies have been banned from the Masai Mara this year for not controlling their clients.

Lesson learnt is to make the drivers and guides aware that unlike their normal customer who, understandably, wants to see all the big 5 and as many other species as possible on their bucket list trip, avoiding the crowds, finding all wildlife of interest rather than the usual “must see” types and spending time waiting and looking was what I was after.

Other learning point is to get out to the quieter, oabd larger locations, accepting that more time is needed to discover those magic moments.

I have found Wildlife photographers to be of a similar mindset, with an appreciation and love of the wildlife and an interest in and respect of the animal or birds welfare. We are drawn to nature and look to capture those discuss moments and in doing so I have been awed by the knowledge of many photographers of nature and wildlife. Guess this fascination, appreciation and love of nature is what binds us in this forums community.

So echoing the sentiment of the comments above, would I post locations onto social media or into the public domain where there is limited control? Nope, Would I share them with a like minded and trusted colleague? Certainly. And even better, getting out with then to scope the location and see what images we can get.
 
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Just to throw in a different angle, if you do spot a bird that's out of range or simply unusual, isn't a good idea for that info to be included in a data set so it's area and numbers are better understood for conversation? Perhaps a selective sharing of the sighting is actually helpful in some cases. I feel as photographers and nature lovers we owe it to professional conservationists to help build up informed data.
 
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Squawk said:
Just to throw in a different angle, if you do spot a bird that's out of range or simply unusual, isn't a good idea for that info to be included in a data set so it's area and numbers are better understood for conversation? Perhaps a selective sharing of the sighting is actually helpful in some cases. I feel as photographers and nature lovers we owe it to professional conservationists to help build up informed data.
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In a situation like that I would be tempted to report it, you know, a couple weeks later after it had moved on :)
 
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