Nikon 800mm PF

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sh1209

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I noticed B&H has this lens listed now so hopefully that means it’s just around the bend. I’m curious to see what price range this comes in at. I am guessing $6-7k
This would be a phenomenal lens for birds as long as the weight is manageable. This would most likely be a well balanced setup for the Z9 as well, considering how back heavy it is with a lens such as the 500PF. I’d like to see if anyone has heard anything regarding price or weight.
 
Someone needs to do the math re the weight loss between say the 500 f4 and the 500 PF 5.6 and apply that to the 800 5.6 and the new PF promise. Or just wait until I save enough, and the lens is in stock generally, and I buy the new 2.8 400 Z -- THAT will prompt release and quick delivery of the 800 :)
 
I noticed B&H has this lens listed now so hopefully that means it’s just around the bend. I’m curious to see what price range this comes in at. I am guessing $6-7k
This would be a phenomenal lens for birds as long as the weight is manageable. This would most likely be a well balanced setup for the Z9 as well, considering how back heavy it is with a lens such as the 500PF. I’d like to see if anyone has heard anything regarding price or weight.

Can you share a link? I can't find it through the search
 
Scaling the dimensions of a lens off the roadmap silhouettes has proved fairly accurate (as reported in December here), but not so estimating the mass :D
However, Nikon has bragged about an unprecedented lighter mass of the 800 PF relative to the 800 f5.6E. But not too big a challenge considering the latter weighs 4.59kg....

Considering the 200-500 f5.6E of 95mm with 19 elements of max ø 90 mm weighs 2.0 kg (2.3 with tripod collar).... my guess for the 800 f6.3 PF of about 2.5-2.6kg, even less perhaps but it's hard to believe a prime of that size can weigh much less. But we may be pleasantly surprised!

I don't know if this interview has been shared - here you go:
 
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This promises to be an exciting lens, but I think that your price guesstimate is way off. The lens is an 800mm f/6.3... 1/3 stop (not 1 stop) slower than the 800m f5.6E. The price of the 800mm E is $16000. If we subtract a whopping $1000 for the included/matched 1.25x convert, this means the lens is $15000. How much savings is there in dropping 1/3 f-stop? If the lens is not made in Japan, there will be some labor cost reductions as well.
Given the price of modern Z-Glass, I think we're looking at $10000 (+) for the 800mm f6.3PF. If the lens weighs the same as a 500mm f/4E, Nikon will sell enough... I think the "affordable" prime will be the 400mm PF lens. With respect to the latter, I wonder if it will be made like the 500 f5.6PF (moderate compromises), will it be made without out compromises, or will it be more like the 300mm PF (many compromises).

regards,
Bruce
 
Solid reasoning, but I hope Nikon prove you wrong about the price :LOL:

This promises to be an exciting lens, but I think that your price guesstimate is way off. The lens is an 800mm f/6.3... 1/3 stop (not 1 stop) slower than the 800m f5.6E. The price of the 800mm E is $16000. If we subtract a whopping $1000 for the included/matched 1.25x convert, this means the lens is $15000. How much savings is there in dropping 1/3 f-stop? If the lens is not made in Japan, there will be some labor cost reductions as well.
Given the price of modern Z-Glass, I think we're looking at $10000 (+) for the 800mm f6.3PF. If the lens weighs the same as a 500mm f/4E, Nikon will sell enough... I think the "affordable" prime will be the 400mm PF lens. With respect to the latter, I wonder if it will be made like the 500 f5.6PF (moderate compromises), will it be made without out compromises, or will it be more like the 300mm PF (many compromises).

regards,
Bruce
 
This promises to be an exciting lens, but I think that your price guesstimate is way off. The lens is an 800mm f/6.3... 1/3 stop (not 1 stop) slower than the 800m f5.6E. The price of the 800mm E is $16000. If we subtract a whopping $1000 for the included/matched 1.25x convert, this means the lens is $15000. How much savings is there in dropping 1/3 f-stop? If the lens is not made in Japan, there will be some labor cost reductions as well.
Given the price of modern Z-Glass, I think we're looking at $10000 (+) for the 800mm f6.3PF. If the lens weighs the same as a 500mm f/4E, Nikon will sell enough... I think the "affordable" prime will be the 400mm PF lens. With respect to the latter, I wonder if it will be made like the 500 f5.6PF (moderate compromises), will it be made without out compromises, or will it be more like the 300mm PF (many compromises).

regards,
Bruce
I hope you’re wrong on the price but unfortunately it could be that expensive. If so, I won’t be getting it.
 
If you look at 500mm f/5.6 PF pricing at $3.6K US relative to the 500mm f/4 at$10.3K US you see about a 2.86 factor. So let's use that value for the differential. With the 800mm f/5.6 at $16.3K US that gives a rough estimate of $5.7K for the PF version. Add in a bit for the fractional stop difference and a bit for the pending price increases you can get to $6.5K US as a wiid a** guess. I would go for anything under $7K US for me to look at a purchase. Just my two cents that could lead to my $7K.
 
It is not simply a f/6.3 800mm lens but a PF or Phase Fresnal lens that is cheaper to produce as reflected in the price for the 300mm and 500mm PF lenses. My 600mm f/4 weighs more than 8 lbs and if the 800mm PF comes in at less than 6 lbs it will be a worthwhile move for me. Canon's 800mm f/11 STM lens weighs less than 3 lbs. which is even less than the probably weight of a 800mm PF lens from Nikon.

It does show the efforts by Canon and Nikon to provide substantially lighter lenses for their cameras while staying with full frame size sensors. The Canon 800mm may have some drawbacks but its owners are delighted with its performance at its $999 price. It is also viable as a result of its 4 stops of image stabilization from the lens.

What I find surprising is the evident lack of diffraction problems with the Canon 800mm f/11 and Canon promotes it as being compatible with their 1.4x and 2x teleconverters. No diffraction at f/22 is pretty amazing for a super telephoto lens.
 
If you look at 500mm f/5.6 PF pricing at $3.6K US relative to the 500mm f/4 at$10.3K US you see about a 2.86 factor. So let's use that value for the differential. With the 800mm f/5.6 at $16.3K US that gives a rough estimate of $5.7K for the PF version. Add in a bit for the fractional stop difference and a bit for the pending price increases you can get to $6.5K US as a wiid a** guess. I would go for anything under $7K US for me to look at a purchase. Just my two cents that could lead to my $7K.

I don’t think your logic will hold. With the 500mm compare your are looking at a f4 vs f5.6, a full stop difference. The 800m lenses are just a third stop apart, plus add the price of the PF glass and I have a feeling everyone will be in sticker shock (but I hope I’m wrong).
 
I don’t think your logic will hold. With the 500mm compare your are looking at a f4 vs f5.6, a full stop difference. The 800m lenses are just a third stop apart, plus add the price of the PF glass and I have a feeling everyone will be in sticker shock (but I hope I’m wrong).
We do not know how they may have re-engineered the elements in such that they can use a smaller PF element based on its placement in the lens. Nikon knows glass! We shall see, then we will know.
 
This is a 5 figure lens. Just look at the size of it on the roadmap. People thinking they are going to be paying less than half the 800E for 1/3 stop less light gathering and no 1.25TC are dreaming.
I was hoping it would be under $10k but maybe they put the Z9 body out at a good rate and now are gonna make it up in lens price. I just don’t think I could stand to stomach paying that much for a lens. I would be scared to death to even take it out of the house lol. I don’t mind spending that much on two or three really good lenses but on one that’s a little out of my realm.
 
It’s also more than likely going to be heavier than what I can support with a condition of my arms so more than likely I’ll be sticking with the 500 PF. I think the best budget zoom telephoto out on the market right now by far is the Sony 200/600. As it stands right now Nikons 200 600 isn’t going to be a S lens.
 
Last year before I switched brands I had dinner with Moose and a Nikon Rep that covers TX. He said Nikon made a pricing error with the 500PF and looking back on it it should have been $5k or more. The demand at that price point was unexpected. I would bet a 800PF is $6-8k.
 
As an owner of the 800 5.6, I'll be real curious about this version of it. I can't see it improving at all upon image quality, just rather of course with weight. I've been very happy with the 800's preformance on the Z9 so far. That's not much of a loss of light but I'd rather still have every little bit I could get as I shoot so many birds at darker times of day, namely the owls.
 
I was initially hoping it would be $8000 or less. I'm now in the camp that this will probably be $12,000 or so.

I posted this on another website a few weeks ago. Was just trying to look at the numbers and see if I could make any comparisons:

Just looking at the numbers different ways here, but both the 300pf and 500pf are ~36% the cost of their 1-stop faster alternatives. The 800pf is only 1/3 stop slower. So instead of a 64% discount for a whole stop, you could be looking at a 22% discount, which would make the 800pf as high as $12,500 or so.

On the lowest end, the 300pf to 500pf is a 80% price increase ($2000 vs $3600) for a 66.7% increase in focal length. The 500 to 800 is only a 60% increase in focal length, but let’s say it’s still a 80% price increase for the 500mm to 800mm focal length jump = $6400. This doesn’t take the aperture different into account. This won’t happen. Not sure where I was going with that 🤣

The 500/4 is 84% more expensive than the 300/2.8
The 800/5.6 is 58% more expensive than the 500/4
Not sure what that adds to the discussion either 😂

Basically I’m going to guess $12,249, maybe $11,500 on the low end for the 800. That puts me out lol
I was initially hoping for $8k or less but am less hopeful as we go along.
 
We can all continue to speculate. Numbers as follows:
300mm f/2.8 = 5.6K USD; 400mm PF f/4 = 2K USD; Cost ratio 2.8 with one stop loss
500mm f/4 = 10.3K USD; 500mm PF f/5.6 - 3.6K USD; Cost Ratio 2.86 with one stop loss
800mm f/5.6 - 16.3K USD; 800mm PF 5/6.3 using 2.8 ratio give cost of 5.8K USD which is clearly too low. And the F-mount includes a 1.25x matched TC which adds cost.

Allowing for the lesser drop in cost and the added complexity of focal length, a price of 7K USD gives a ratio of 2.33 or they could even go to 8K USD and still be around 2.0 ratio. I am counting on the lens design and engineering skills to figure this one out. If the price goes too high, just go fo the 400mm w/TCs,
A lower price would lead to skyrocket demand and could pull more people to the Z series cameras. We will see where Nikon chooses to go. Just sayin'.
 
I follow UK prices as a global indicator of top end Nikon products.; telephoto width is a useful indicator of RRP in UK £. Approx averages : 200 f2 (5200), 300 f2.8G (4800);
500 f4 (9000)
400 f2.8 (11000), 600 f4 (10800), 800 f5.6 (16400)

The 500 f4 and 800 PF (125, 127mm) have larger windows than 200 f2 and 300 f2.8 (100, 107mm) but narrower than 800 f5.6 (143), 400 f2.8 (142), 600 f4 (150). The shells of this most expensive trio are similarly close in width. These are at least ~160mm wide. And the 400 f2.8S TC and 600 f4S are in the same league.

These all need huge front elements, which are costly to produce out of carefully annealed blanks of propriety Nikon glass, which must have zero impurities and blemishes etc even before machining and polishing.

There must be similar if not greater challenges mass producing Fluorite elements of similar widths. The optical designs of the fast 400, 500, 600 and 800 have 2 huge Fl elements as the 1st and 2nd, which reduce mass and gives better balance.

In all their key attributes, these exotic telephotos are bespoke optics. Each is assembled and tested (at least in the final stages) by skilled technicians who sign off on each new prime, and I know a Nikon ambassador/ NPS pro's who shook the hand of the elderly gentleman who built his 600 f4E (on factory tour).

And note each 800mm 5.6E FL that not only has 2 huge Fl front elements, and is hand assembled and tested; but it's optimized with its paired bespoke TC125. If this TC is lost or damaged the entire pair has to be shipped back to the factory to repaired to the original standard.

However, if Nikon have included a wide fluorite front element (with the Phase-fresnel) this will arguably push up the production costs and production delays etc. But note the 500 f5.6 PF does not use fluorite. Hand assembly versus robotic assembly and testing is another big unknown; higher hands-on production costs of their older EF lenses is one reason Canon has cited recently for discontinuing production (besides pushing for MILC of course). Note the 89mm window of the 500 PF:- with no fluorite in the optical design. The PF does the critical work, presumably: corrected by the 3 ED smaller elements posteriorly


500mm f5.6E PF lens construction.png


The 800 f6.3S PF is estimated at 143mm wide, and it must have a 127mm window; this is close to the 125mm window of a 500 f4. This means < £10000 is likely - arguably its RRP could be closer to £8000 IF Nikon opted to reduce production costs with less, narrower elements: including positioning a narrower PF element further back in the design (less costa in production challenges etc). Basically, all this is speculation....we still face too many unknowns (especially Nikon being so secretive).

Anyways, fairly soon we should hear how bad is the fiscal news! I agree fully Nikon are at another fork in the road if they want to price this 800 PF to increase profile and demand for the Z System or perpetuate their stratospheric exotic strategy of the olden day markets.

800 f6.3S PF size estimate_Jan2022.jpg
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