hrv
Well-known member
Just updated to 2.1. When the weather improves I will try it in the field, but so far, tracking is definitely snappier when pointing it at a person and moving the camera around like crazy. Eye AF is much more sticky.
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zule11
Active member
Nikon Z9 Firmware 2.1 - Did It Really Improve Autofocus issue
(yes
)Kumarsnaveen
Member
Updated firmware to 2.1. My old settings are intact after upgrade. As a best practice you may want to save settings but not needed as such.Downloaded, but I will backup current camera settings first, before updating. If it turns out a rollback is needed to FW2.0 , the camera loses all settings. Closing warning from Ricci in his video (link above).
Yes, Frustrating Precapture RAW in the Z9 still remains AWOL but AF update warmly welcomed
agrumpyoldsod
Well-known member
This is the comment I left on the video -- let us see how long it lasts:Nikon Z9 Firmware 2.1 - Did It Really Improve Autofocus issue
(yes
"You should have waited until you actually tested it in the field with wildlife.
Is the AF better - yes. Is it perfect NO. No camera is.
So the users still has to do their part of the job - pic a focussing mode and settings that works with your subject in the environment within which they sit AND yes sometimes you are going to have to "help" the camera - so my Fn2 is going to stay as recall prefocus point 5m away.
BUT if you choose to shoot flowers then use single point (or dynamic AF) like the rest of us. But when set your camera to an AF area mode/3D tracking and turn on wildlife eye-tracking then expect it not to get confused when there is NO wildlife -- it is looking for wildlife because the user told it to.
Such a dumbass choice.
A leaf does not simulate a bird.
How about you go out and actually take pictures of BIRDS -- then form a view -- this is what you do -- RIGHT?"
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Yes, not only does he use a leaf for a bird but he uses animal detect on the leaf too! Go figure, very confusing!
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The update was absolutely fine. All my settings and custom settings remained intact. I have a spare 32Gb XQD card I use for backup of settings and updates to firmware.
The update was vey easy to do.
The results are very pleasing with birds moving quickly in difficult situations.
There is no need to worry about resetting of things.
I do use my 32XQD card as a standard backup because caution is always sensible. I also find it a much nicer way to live than becoming fixated on possible “traps”.
Kumarsnaveen
Member
Even I was surprised on the test in video. Testing with 3D focus with animal detection mode on a leaf simulating a bird may not be best way to form initial impressions.
My brief tests in falling light day before appeared promising but yet to test on skittish song birds in clutter. Eye detection worked lot better and faster on coots, grebes, ducks and herons at a distance and tiny in frame. Focus consistently regained to eye much faster during wading motion many a times. Initial focussing appeared fast for flight shots of painted storks, night herons, striated herons, oriental daters, kites etc in clear backgrounds and in falling light. None of this is to conclude one way or other.
If it consistently doesn't work then we can live with a workaround even it means developing bit of muscle memory. Not expecting 2.1 firmware to solve all issues that we encounter in field.
Well it's nice to know that Nikon was at least aware of how/where their AF is/was trailing the competition. I've been doing my own comparison of Z9/500PF vs A1/200-600 for the past several weeks. Shooting the same subjects at least and side by side as much as possible. Poor tracking of small targets and jumping to (even distant) BG has definitely where the Z9 has been (way)behind. Below is a shot from a couple of days ago indicative of situations in which the Z9 would consistently drop the subject and grab the BG which was at least a half mile away. I certainly considered it problematic that the camera preferred to lock onto subtle differences in shades of green that far away vs a white bird against a dark BG. It hasn't been a problem when the bird fills a significant portion of the frame. I've been working around this by turning off subject detection which hasn't been nearly as bad for grabbing the BG. It will be interesting to see how much they've been able to improve. Hopefully I'll get out again in the next couple of days and test it out.
Z9/500mm PF, DX mode, wide area L, monopod/gimbal
Z9/500mm PF, DX mode, wide area L, monopod/gimbal
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Mine did not improve at all... still holds the background when moved to a closer subject - SOS
Per Nikon "Fixed an issue that resulted in the camera focusing on the background when [Single-point AF], [Dynamic-area AF (S)], or [Dynamic-area AF (M)] was selected for [AF-area mode]" So far this has been the improvement from 2.1 that I like the best ... shooting small birds in deep shade, in the bushes, against busy backgrounds and fore grounds on a branch with a bright blue sky behind etc. these are my go to AF area in many cases. And it was significantly better and flat out faster.
Today I noticed that my Wide Area Custom 1 as a 5x7 with subject detection on was also much faster and more consistent at picking up small birds.
I did have one short period of frustration not being able to focus on an almost to close (with the Z800 mm pf) small bird no matter what af area mode I used ... when I focused on it with manual and then if went out of focus when af took over I had an aha moment .... Yup there was a very simple solution fix the operator error ... I had forgotten to put the AF focus range limit switch on the lens back to full when I got into a close range situation
Today I noticed that my Wide Area Custom 1 as a 5x7 with subject detection on was also much faster and more consistent at picking up small birds.
I did have one short period of frustration not being able to focus on an almost to close (with the Z800 mm pf) small bird no matter what af area mode I used ... when I focused on it with manual and then if went out of focus when af took over I had an aha moment .... Yup there was a very simple solution fix the operator error ... I had forgotten to put the AF focus range limit switch on the lens back to full when I got into a close range situation
Agreed. I had a Fairy wren on a wire close to me. The Z9 would not pick it up at all but was great with the other Fairy wrens in the field nearby. The minimum focussing distance on the 500F4G is 4 metres. The bird on the wire was only 3.5 metres away. Two steps back and… problem fixed.Per Nikon "Fixed an issue that resulted in the camera focusing on the background when [Single-point AF], [Dynamic-area AF (S)], or [Dynamic-area AF (M)] was selected for [AF-area mode]" So far this has been the improvement from 2.1 that I like the best ... shooting small birds in deep shade, in the bushes, against busy backgrounds and fore grounds on a branch with a bright blue sky behind etc. these are my go to AF area in many cases. And it was significantly better and flat out faster.
Today I noticed that my Wide Area Custom 1 as a 5x7 with subject detection on was also much faster and more consistent at picking up small birds.
I did have one short period of frustration not being able to focus on an almost to close (with the Z800 mm pf) small bird no matter what af area mode I used ... when I focused on it with manual and then if went out of focus when af took over I had an aha moment .... Yup there was a very simple solution fix the operator error ... I had forgotten to put the AF focus range limit switch on the lens back to full when I got into a close range situation
pvindis
Well-known member
Would you tell us your AF-settings, please?
Johan Schmidt
Well-known member
This update improves the best camera Nikon has EVER made, yet still not good enough for some people who call themselves photographers, but don't want to develop their craft skills. If photography was simply access to perfect equipment that takes perfect images by reading your mind, the craft would die a quick death. The camera is still only a tool that the craftsman needs to use well.
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The file information is: Wide-area AF (small), Subject detection: Animal, AF-C, DX mode, VR off, Lossless compressed (14 bit) RAW, F5.6, 25.0 mp (5392 x 3592), 1/800s, Matrix metering, Aperture priority, F5.6, Z9, Firmware 2.1, Lens: VR 500mm, f/4G
I still have a D500 and so I had switched to DX mode for some birds on the other side of the river (which is quite wide so you need DX for that. Looking at the Thornbill shots it appears I had forgotten to switch back.
I was taking images of the Spoonbill as a different test. I wanted to see how it coped with a Spoonbill which was small in the frame flying past mangroves. It was fine with that and did not miss focus. When the bird was very close it did appear to miss the focus on just a few frames, but this was not the fault of the AF system, it was the operator (me) not keeping track of the bird taking off well enough. In the sequence it quickly got back in focus very quickly (by the next frame) so that only a few frames were not in focus. There were more than 20 or so in focus.
I still have a D500 and so I had switched to DX mode for some birds on the other side of the river (which is quite wide so you need DX for that. Looking at the Thornbill shots it appears I had forgotten to switch back.
I was taking images of the Spoonbill as a different test. I wanted to see how it coped with a Spoonbill which was small in the frame flying past mangroves. It was fine with that and did not miss focus. When the bird was very close it did appear to miss the focus on just a few frames, but this was not the fault of the AF system, it was the operator (me) not keeping track of the bird taking off well enough. In the sequence it quickly got back in focus very quickly (by the next frame) so that only a few frames were not in focus. There were more than 20 or so in focus.
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Ignore the noise. It’s not actually about photography as such, more about brand bragging rights. I like my Nikon gear, but that‘s because I use it.
I will be trying this out asap. I have shot perched birds on a wire side by side with my Z9 & A1
Z9 really struggled where as A1 grabbed focus always . This happened for both still & videos
Surprisingly I never faced any issue with BIF even with busy BGs( which othered had reported)
I am using 500 PF with Z9
arbitrage
Well-known member
Why such hate for this video?
He was very clear about what he was testing and what he was not testing.
His previous videos described his #1 problem with the Z9 is that it was not even attempting to drive to a near, OOF target when previously focused further out.
He used this video to see if FW 2.1 had improved this.
He found that it had.
I actually don't even think the FW notes were directed at this issue but it is good that it has improved.
He already has a video out showing how to use the recall prefocus point to help with this problem
For this specific test, that yellow leaf is a very suitable proxy for a bird.
Maybe using just a single AF point without tracking/eye-af would have been useful to test also.
But please don't tell me the Z9 fails AF just because it is in 3D Animal mode and no animal is in the frame? Does it? Because that would be a garbage AF system if you have to keep turning on/off AF depending on if there is an animal/bird around or not. I don't recall that you had to do this in my testing.
Anyways, he said his next test is to get out in the field, explained why he hadn't done it yet, and explained why this test was suitable to test this one particular issue (and I believe it was suitable for this). Again though, I don't think the FW notes were addressing this particular issue but good to see improvement. This looks more like how A1 performs for driving into a near oof subject.
Maybe he should have just waited?
I didn’t mind the video, even though it was a fairly weak effort. His comments were in line with my own testing. The evidence he showed was not of moving birds. That doesn’t mean he was wrong. He just presented the case badly.
I have tested the Z9 with moving birds and seen the places where I mucked up and where the updated firmware was able to track a tiny bird move from one side of a bush go behind a branch and then land on the very top edge of the frame. The Z9 immediately re-acquired focus once the bird stopped and cleared the obstacle. Given that all this can be seen up close over 4 frames taken at 15fps that is enough testing for me. I was using wide area small not 3D.
The Z9 is still a complex system, but I am glad. It requires understanding and real skill. Those are things I can learn.
I recall learning over course of a week how to get an 11 point rather limited autofocus system (D90) to focus on the eyes of moving hummingbirds. Cameras are like small musical instruments, you have to learn how to get the best out of them. (every brand).
If the Z9 did all the things the keyboard warriors seem to want, photography would become far less engaging, enjoyable, and challenging. I like the fact that it has enhanced capabilities, but I am not expecting it to become a fully automatic autonomous entity. After 2.1 the Z9 is showing a noticeable improvement.
All I need now is the world to open up a bit and make life easier. The camera is ready.
I have tested the Z9 with moving birds and seen the places where I mucked up and where the updated firmware was able to track a tiny bird move from one side of a bush go behind a branch and then land on the very top edge of the frame. The Z9 immediately re-acquired focus once the bird stopped and cleared the obstacle. Given that all this can be seen up close over 4 frames taken at 15fps that is enough testing for me. I was using wide area small not 3D.
The Z9 is still a complex system, but I am glad. It requires understanding and real skill. Those are things I can learn.
I recall learning over course of a week how to get an 11 point rather limited autofocus system (D90) to focus on the eyes of moving hummingbirds. Cameras are like small musical instruments, you have to learn how to get the best out of them. (every brand).
If the Z9 did all the things the keyboard warriors seem to want, photography would become far less engaging, enjoyable, and challenging. I like the fact that it has enhanced capabilities, but I am not expecting it to become a fully automatic autonomous entity. After 2.1 the Z9 is showing a noticeable improvement.
All I need now is the world to open up a bit and make life easier. The camera is ready.
Since we are talking about AF area modes…what are most of us using for wildlife? I’ve set my action/wildlife at Auto Area on the shutter and subject tracking with handoff on BBF…but haven’t actually been out wildlife shooting with it yet. Heading out Tuesday for a shot at Corkscrew and will try that as well as the wide and dynamic area modes…so im just looking for thoughts to try here. Mine will have 2.1 installed as soon as I move the file over to the body.
DsD
Well-known member
For me, true with a qualifier. I have only been using the z9 for about 3 weeks now. Still learning it but very comfortable with it.
- Close in, I think Charles is right. Today my targets were a pair of Bluebirds on small dead tree (nest), 20-25 feet away. Background was tree foliage at roughly 25 yards away. Camera paired w/ Z 100-400 @ 400mm. Optimal early morning sun lit target(s).
- Smallest Custom Wide- would not pull focus back even though bird was profiled and prominent.
- Wide Area Large- same as Custom small.
- Once focused it would not lock on body or eye 25% of the time.
- 3D- much better than Smallest Custom or Wide Area Large; perhaps 50%-60% reliable.
- 3D- would go from body to eye about 75% of the time and held lock almost 100% of the time that the eye was in view; never goes to head.
- 3D would not hold lock much of the time when bird(s) flitted/jumped to close branch or to the nest hole; would acquire branch where previously perched.
- Small Dynamic- Clearly did the best at pulling back focus the majority of time; 3D performed the same as above.
- Further out (50-60 yards) with sky background.
- Smallest Custom, 3D and Small Dynamic did a great job acquiring the eye of a Heron in a large dead tree. I'd say close to 90% of the time and held that lock.
- Wide Area Large did not want to grab focus most of the time, even on the body. Once it did and then handed off to 3D it picked up the eye and held lock as above.
I am not overly convinced yet that the improvements are statically significant nor overly helpful for me. Perhaps they are. I am sure at some point Steve will weigh in with his take.
Wide Area AF (Wide), but also AF Wide Area small for some things. I have been trying out a manual switch over to Auto Area, sometimes. Fn3 to RSF hold changes a few things but also AF to 3D. No BBF, but I do sometimes use the AFON button to activate a focus acquisition/ re-acquisition.
That's the one I paid attention to
Thanks for the test work! Yup I'd already started automatically hitting an f key to go to spot focus with a small bird in branches. Have to check out the update in the field and give the focussing task back to AF subject detect
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My shots so far were all traveling or landscapes and waterfalls…and Auto Area works fine for those…but I’m guessing the wide or dynamic modes will be better for action and wildlife…I will see on Tuesday but it’s going to take me months to wreak everything I know.