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Butlerkid said:
Thank you so very much! When you get a chance, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts regarding re-acquiring focus when the subject is closer than the camera is focusing.

That 400 f4.5 sounds like a very sweet lens! I need to find a lighter solution to my 600 f4! I can't hand hold the Z 800..... and I've never been that impressed with the 500 PF. But I haven't given the 500 PF a chance on the Z9......
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I forgot to mention that the other changed setting I was trying today was Focus Tracking with Lock on set to 1. I had been using 3 or higher.

I did not use it today but I have 3 normal methods if the camera is want to focus behind or in front of the subject. 1 is using my vid record button programed to recall shooting function hold and the only thing selected it turn af subject detections off. 2 is to use focus point memory recall on lens and the refocus on subject. 3 is to use manual focus ring. Which technique is used depends on how far away the subject is and how far behind the subject the lens is focusing and how much junk is around the subject.
 
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Ken Miracle said:
I forgot to mention that the other changed setting I was trying today was Focus Tracking with Lock on set to 1. I had been using 3 or higher.

I did not use it today but I have 3 normal methods if the camera is want to focus behind or in front of the subject. 1 is using my vid record button programed to recall shooting function hold and the only thing selected it turn af subject detections off. 2 is to use focus point memory recall on lens and the refocus on subject. 3 is to use manual focus ring. Which technique is used depends on how far away the subject is and how far behind the subject the lens is focusing and how much junk is around the subject.
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For the first time ever, I started to use the manual focus ring to bring focus back. I was surprised that it worked pretty well (my eyesight isn't the greatest!).

With Focus Tracking Lock On set to 1, did you find it went off target too easily?
 
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Butlerkid said:
For the first time ever, I started to use the manual focus ring to bring focus back. I was surprised that it worked pretty well (my eyesight isn't the greatest!).

With Focus Tracking Lock On set to 1, did you find it went off target too easily?
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No but I was using Auto Area AF so would not really expect it to be an issue there ... will see when I use wide area custom again.

Weight on my wife's set up Z50 & Z400 f/4.5 is 3.44 pounds.
Weight on my Z9 & Z800 PF is 8.21 lbs .... so less total than my 600 f/4 E alone :)
 
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Ken Miracle said:
No but I was using Auto Area AF so would not really expect it to be an issue there ... will see when I use wide area custom again.

Weight on my wife's set up Z50 & Z400 f/4.5 is 3.44 pounds.
Weight on my Z9 & Z800 PF is 8.21 lbs .... so less total than my 600 f/4 E alone :)
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You are right, Lock-on setting of 1 or 2 is not available with 3D and Auto AF modes (3d always defaults to 3 and Auto can only use 3, 4 or 5) so, Wide AF modes are the only ones this can be tested. As most of us have configured to use short cuts for multiple AF area modes, we can always have a default setting of 1 or 2. This way, whenever we use Auto or 3D, the lock-on will be at 3 and when we use wide modes, it will consider the default setting of 1 or 2.
 
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I finally got an opportunity to test out v2.1 on some BIF. In the name of full disclosure I will say that this testing was done with the 400mm f4.5 whereas all of my prior BIF shooting was with the adapted 500mm PF. The testing that I did was with gulls against some busy BG. The BG was fairly dark so white birds against dark BG. But that's what I shot mostly earlier in the season when shooting arctic terns as well. I'm not going to post any images because what's the point? With regard to AF it's about what we miss not what we get isn't it? Anyhow my overall impression is that v2.1 is much improved at finding/tracking birds when they are small in the frame. When the bird is large in the frame I'm not sure that it's any better than v2.0 at finding an eye. Honestly when shooting BIF the camera rarely finds the bird's eye. I also tested switching to DX mode when the bird is small in the frame and the improvement in AF performance is pretty striking.

In addition to finding/tracking the bird better another thing that I noticed to be improved with v2.1 is that most of the time when the camera did jump to the BG I was able to release and tap the focus button and the camera would lock back on to the bird. That is a big change compared to v2.0 IMO. Previously if/when the AF grabbed the BG the only way to break it loose was to quickly grab manual focus.

Anyhow, there's my observations/opinion FWIW.
 
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NorthernFocus said:
I finally got an opportunity to test out v2.1 on some BIF. In the name of full disclosure I will say that this testing was done with the 400mm f4.5 whereas all of my prior BIF shooting was with the adapted 500mm PF. The testing that I did was with gulls against some busy BG. The BG was fairly dark so white birds against dark BG. But that's what I shot mostly earlier in the season when shooting arctic terns as well. I'm not going to post any images because what's the point? With regard to AF it's about what we miss not what we get isn't it? Anyhow my overall impression is that v2.1 is much improved at finding/tracking birds when they are small in the frame. When the bird is large in the frame I'm not sure that it's any better than v2.0 at finding an eye. Honestly when shooting BIF the camera rarely finds the bird's eye. I also tested switching to DX mode when the bird is small in the frame and the improvement in AF performance is pretty striking.

In addition to finding/tracking the bird better another thing that I noticed to be improved with v2.1 is that most of the time when the camera did jump to the BG I was able to release and tap the focus button and the camera would lock back on to the bird. That is a big change compared to v2.0 IMO. Previously if/when the AF grabbed the BG the only way to break it loose was to quickly grab manual focus.

Anyhow, there's my observations/opinion FWIW.
Click to expand...
Dan -- what AF area and tracking settings were you using. Have you found some work better than others?
 
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ajm057 said:
Dan -- what AF area and tracking settings were you using. Have you found some work better than others?
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I was using wide area L. I've pretty well settled on the various wide areas with and without subject recognition. And of course single point. Haven't had much luck with 3D and haven't even bothered with testing auto area or dynamic area.
 
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NorthernFocus said:
I was using wide area L. I've pretty well settled on the various wide areas with and without subject recognition. And of course single point. Haven't had much luck with 3D and haven't even bothered with testing auto area or dynamic area.
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I had not checked out Auto Area AF with animal tracking on for a long time since I never found it useful. But someone mentioned it here after firmware 2.1 and I gave it a try and I was shocked at how well it worked on birds in heavy cover. You might want to give it a try. I am off to try and find some BIF to try it on in moments.
 
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interestingly, i feel like auto area w/ animal detect got worse for dogs playing disc with 2.1. i have been getting lower lately, and maybe that's it or a factor. otoh, i haven't played with 3d tracking in a while (it didn't seem very good in 1.x and i haven't really revisited it since), but last night i switched over to 3d and that seemed much better for the very low-to-the-grass work i was doing last night
_JN91442-Edit.jpg
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On Tuesday, August 9 I'm hosting the next program in the NPS Z9 series with Nikon's Paul Van Allen and Mike Lopez. The program will be all about focus with the Nikon Z9. While the subject is the Z9, for those considering the Z9 or other action cameras, this will provide some good ideas and techniques.

I'm extending a complementary invitation to BCG members.

Be sure to register in advance. Here are the details:

When: Aug 9, 2022 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Topic: Focus on Focus with Nikon’s Paul van Allen and Mike Lopez
Register in advance for this webinar:
https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_ghnTYEFVScCdGR3W7tbxxA
 
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Ken Miracle said:
I forgot to mention that the other changed setting I was trying today was Focus Tracking with Lock on set to 1. I had been using 3 or higher.

I did not use it today but I have 3 normal methods if the camera is want to focus behind or in front of the subject. 1 is using my vid record button programed to recall shooting function hold and the only thing selected it turn af subject detections off. 2 is to use focus point memory recall on lens and the refocus on subject. 3 is to use manual focus ring. Which technique is used depends on how far away the subject is and how far behind the subject the lens is focusing and how much junk is around the subject.
Click to expand...
The Lock On setting is a lot more important in the latest cameras. I'm using the full range at different times. Most recently I was acquiring focus of Mississippi kites in a plain blue sky, but losing focus as the kite dove and crossed the tree tops or slightly later as they swooped down near ground level. Changing the Lock-on setting from 3 to 5 allowed me to hold focus on almost every pass. As Ken describes here, the other situation is when the camera is slow to acquire focus, and in that case changing the setting to 1 or 2 seems to make a big difference in focus acquisition speed for some subjects.
 
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EricBowles said:
On Tuesday, August 9 I'm hosting the next program in the NPS Z9 series with Nikon's Paul Van Allen and Mike Lopez. The program will be all about focus with the Nikon Z9. While the subject is the Z9, for those considering the Z9 or other action cameras, this will provide some good ideas and techniques.

I'm extending a complementary invitation to BCG members.

Be sure to register in advance. Here are the details:

When: Aug 9, 2022 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Topic: Focus on Focus with Nikon’s Paul van Allen and Mike Lopez
Register in advance for this webinar:
https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_ghnTYEFVScCdGR3W7tbxxA
Click to expand...

Hi - will this be posted once you are done or only available to watch live?
 
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EricBowles said:
On Tuesday, August 9 I'm hosting the next program in the NPS Z9 series with Nikon's Paul Van Allen and Mike Lopez. The program will be all about focus with the Nikon Z9. While the subject is the Z9, for those considering the Z9 or other action cameras, this will provide some good ideas and techniques.

I'm extending a complementary invitation to BCG members.

Be sure to register in advance. Here are the details:

When: Aug 9, 2022 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Topic: Focus on Focus with Nikon’s Paul van Allen and Mike Lopez
Register in advance for this webinar:
https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_ghnTYEFVScCdGR3W7tbxxA
Click to expand...
That's awesome, thank you Eric!!
 
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This is why I wish Nikon adds multiple RSF hold options. For my uses, i will need at least 3 RSF (one for lock on settings between 1 and 5, one for subject detection on or off and one for static shooting setting vs setting for action).

For lock on, the other option would be the ability to set individual lock on settings for each AF area mode.
EricBowles said:
The Lock On setting is a lot more important in the latest cameras. I'm using the full range at different times. Most recently I was acquiring focus of Mississippi kites in a plain blue sky, but losing focus as the kite dove and crossed the tree tops or slightly later as they swooped down near ground level. Changing the Lock-on setting from 3 to 5 allowed me to hold focus on almost every pass. As Ken describes here, the other situation is when the camera is slow to acquire focus, and in that case changing the setting to 1 or 2 seems to make a big difference in focus acquisition speed for some subjects.
Click to expand...
 
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Here area few of my takeaways from the program by Paul van Allen last night on Nikonians.

The AF settings are much more integrated than I thought. For example, the choice of steady vs. erratic involves the extent to which the camera is looking for the subject and subject movement across the frame. With dog agility and a subject coming toward you weaving through poles. he recommended Steady because the dog is consistently in a limited part of the frame. Erratic would be for a subject covering more of the frame and would slow AF performance.

It takes practice, but Paul is using two or three Fn buttons to choose AF Area settings during a single burst of activity - a track shot, a football play or a pass of a flying bird. The Fn button settings are subject, genre, and situation specific. So his settings for American Football are different from Soccer and very different from Tennis. Each sport or type of wildlife may have it's own sets of settings. This goes beyond just one or two Fn buttons and may involve entirely different ways of setting up the camera that are subject specific. You would save those settings and only load the settings that are needed for the events you plan to photograph. I have a friend that is a Canon rep who set up cameras for Canon pros at big events. This would be the equivalent for Nikon pros who might be shooting vastly different subjects and need settings such as Lock on and Fn buttons to be customized for each event.

Paul is using more than just Fn buttons to control AF area modes. He is also using camera Orientation and AF-On to automatically change area modes when he changes the camera's orientation. The example he provided was photographing a football quarterback. Under center just before the start of a play he was using Horizontal with Single point to capture the quarterback with the linemen for context, but after the snap he would switch to vertical orientation and his AF Area mode would automatically switch to Dynamic Medium with the area selected in the place he last used it.

Another example was using pre-shot capture. Paul and other Nikon pros are using JPEG rather than RAW a lot more of the time than they would with a DSLR. The camera is able to produce a high quality, publication ready image. He described Nikon Ambassador Reid Hoffman deciding at a Kansas City Royals game that he was going to try to capture every time the bat hit the ball - not only every hit but every foul ball and foul tip. He was using the pre-shot capture feature. By the seventh inning, he had not missed a single contact of bat and ball - and the nearby Canon and Sony shooters were ready to throw him out of the pit.

Subject recognition is getting a lot better. It's not ready for still cameras yet, but for broadcast video Nikon has implemented technology where the camera recognizes the player's number and jersey color, so the camera will stay on an individual player throughout the play. This is advanced technology and requires more processing power, so it is not economically viable for still cameras - yet. But it gives an idea of what is in the pipeline as processing power advances.

He did allude to a problem some photographers are having with noise in non-Nikon software. He did not get into details, but suggested the work around for now is to convert those individual images to be processed to a TIFF in Nikon NXStudio. His workflow is starting in LR to identify selects, then open those images in NXStudio for basic adjustments. Then he exports those images as TIFFs and brings them back into LR for any downstream work.

I'm sure others picked up other tips and ideas. The big point is the cameras are quite sophisticated, and can be configured as needed. But it's far from a point and shoot, so suboptimal settings will mean suboptimal performance.
 
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